STROKE TIMING … A Complete MythBusting Study of Stroke Acceleration Effects

[gregcantrall]

Apologies to the Dr. Originally My intention was to point out an inaccuracie. I have always found Value in your contributions to the sport. While off-topic does take fork in the topic, it does keep the thread at the top.
With that said I shall trundle along the off topic trail.
Just took a little time to revisit the Experiments in looking at the cue ball while delivering the stroke thread. Well looking now for the link to the Ronnie interview. On page 5 of 41 and still looking but in the search I uncovered this statement.

I have been lining up the shot, getting into my stance with the shot aligned and then confirming my aim by sighting down my cue through the cue ball and to my intended contact point on the object ball. When I am stroking my cue in the practice stroke my eyes remain on the cue ball so I do not accidently bump it. When the practice stroke stops I follow the line of the cue and stroke and confirm that it will take the cueball to it's target(the tiney little fly speck on the OB). If all is well I focus on the exact point I wish to contact the cueball and the line through it to the target. My primary focus is keeping the cue on that line. When the cue strike the ball my eyes then go with the cueball, reading the spin/speed and then the contact with the object ball.
It was a leap of faith at first but so far well worth the exploration. Until I started this experiment I always shifted my gaze from the cueball to the object ball at the back of my stroke, giving a slight pause at that point like Buddy Hall.

 

[SeniorTom]

The sports you mentioned don't involve striking a ball with something. If you want some closer comparisons, try golf or tennis.

I don't really feel like debating it much more other than saying this, if 95% of pool players use object ball last method, that says volumes.

 

[gregcantrall]

seems to look at the destination last tgat they are going to, and not the object they are propelling.

The object I am propelling is the cue. It's destination is the white. The collision between white and color is secondary and the result of the tip/ball interaction at the striking of the white. I have influence on the path until the white and tip separate. Getting optimal results are attained by different methods and varieties of stroke and aiming.
Based strictly on the logic you espoused, cueball at contact prevails.

 

[gregcantrall]

The sports you mentioned don't involve striking a ball with something. If you want some closer comparisons, try golf or tennis.

Baseball and table tennis are the examples I have hands (and eyes) on experience with. Nothing sweeter than seeing the laces on the baseball as the bat sends it on its way. As for ping pong can't imagine success looking at the point on the table I want the ball to hit.

 

[gregcantrall]

Have I struck a nerve?

First I thank all for their thoughtful input and congratulate you for being able to post measured and reasonable responses in a topic that you obviously feel strongly about. I am thinking religiously. I never discuss religion or politics.:sorry:

Still looking.

My eyesight is not what it used to be and my shotmaking has declined over the years. Now I think back and remember the old farts grumbling about my "young eyes", when I was 28 and making shots they would not even attempt. Now I am an old fart and wish I had those "young eyes" again. Cue ball last has improved my shot making and given me renewed confidence in my game.
No doubt this is not for everyone. It did seem very counter intuitive at first. After all I had been playing object ball last for 35 years.

Both quotes come from 2013.
Still looking for Ronnie quote and link. Okay post #256 in 2015 provides this link.
At 6:20
Question; "When you're, um, when you're down on this shot.... Are you, is the last the last ball you look at the cue ball? Or the object ball?"
Ronnie; "Uh I don't even know, to be honest with you."
Question; "No?"
Ronnie; "No, I don't even know. I suppose, it's meant to be the object ball, but I sometimes I find myself looking at the white."

 

[gregcantrall]

At risk of leaking........uh knowledge on the thread. Here's episode 1 of Ronnie from 2015.

 

[gregcantrall]

The highlight so far in episode 1 at 13:58 he makes the black for the Maximum that wins the title. And oh yeah it was Left handed.

 

[gregcantrall]

OK, I take it you you claim they say otherwise.

Could you please provide a citation or maybe photo evidence?

Lou Figueroa
ha, ha

I think I have provided "evidence".
More off topic gold.

 

[lfigueroa]

He's probably referring to this recent short video from Hendry:

Where's he looking in the screen capture?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I think I have provided "evidence".
More off topic gold.

Where is that guy looking?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Still looking.

Both quotes come from 2013.
Still looking for Ronnie quote and link. Okay post #256 in 2015 provides this link.
At 6:20
Question; "When you're, um, when you're down on this shot.... Are you, is the last the last ball you look at the cue ball? Or the object ball?"
Ronnie; "Uh I don't even know, to be honest with you."
Question; "No?"
Ronnie; "No, I don't even know. I suppose, it's meant to be the object ball, but I sometimes I find myself looking at the white."

Ronnie, "Uh I don't even know, to be honest with you."

Lou Figueroa

 

[dr_dave]

I think the benefit of “smooth acceleration” as stroke advice is that it’s a more simple command for your brain to tell your body to execute, compared to trying to decelerate or hold a constant speed with a cue.

Agreed. Nobody should ever think "decelerate," but it happens on occasion, regardless of the command you've sent to your brain.

The main purpose for the video was to show that if "timing" of the stroke is different (either by accident or on purpose), it has no effect on tip contact time.

 

[bbb]

Agreed. Nobody should ever think "decelerate," but it happens on occasion, regardless of the command you've sent to your brain.

The main purpose for the video was to show that if "timing" of the stroke is different (either by accident or on purpose), it has no effect on tip contact time.

still say that point/objective of the video should have been made more emphasized and more should have been done to emphasize the reasons why good timing is advocated (even tho its doesnt afftect tip contact time as well presented in the video)
jmho

 

[mr3cushion]

Agreed. Nobody should ever think "decelerate," but it happens on occasion, regardless of the command you've sent to your brain.

The main purpose for the video was to show that if "timing" of the stroke is different (either by accident or on purpose), it has no effect on tip contact time.

But it does affect the action/results of the CB. I can give at least 2 dozen examples in 3C that require different, Tempos/timings and speed of the stroke to achieve the proper results.

 

[DeadStick]

Where's he looking in the screen capture?

Lou Figueroa

Don’t shoot the messenger, I’ve watched Ronnie play.

 

[Bob Jewett]

But it does affect the action/results of the CB. I can give at least 2 dozen examples in 3C that require different, Tempos/timings and speed of the stroke to achieve the proper results.

The point is that you can get to the same place with a normal stroke that gets the tip into the ball along the same line and with the same speed.

However, thinking "gotta decelerate" may prepare you differently mentally for a shot that you would normally hit too hard. Then it might be useful to you.

 

[Bob Jewett]

.... I’ve watched Ronnie play.

I've watched him too in recent matches and he seems to be looking at the object ball when he pulls the trigger, at least on shots that require careful aim.

 

[bbb]

The point is that you can get to the same place with a normal stroke that gets the tip into the ball along the same line and with the same speed.

However, thinking "gotta decelerate" may prepare you differently mentally for a shot that you would normally hit too hard. Then it might be useful to you.

BOB
the opposite can also be said and i think happens more often and is better advice for the player
.....................................................
what is the correct timing and tempo........
now i hit it perfectly....

 

[mr3cushion]

The point is that you can get to the same place with a normal stroke that gets the tip into the ball along the same line and with the same speed.

However, thinking "gotta decelerate" may prepare you differently mentally for a shot that you would normally hit too hard. Then it might be useful to you.

All the years you've been watching Top 3C players and you won't admit that we use different, strokes, tempos, speeds and timing for any particular shot! Even after the Best player of his era, Sir Raymond Ceulemans describes/demonstrates in numerous diagrams in His book 'Mister 100.'

 

[gregcantrall]

Ronnie, "Uh I don't even know, to be honest with you."

Lou Figueroa

Yes! and finish the quote.
Ronnie; "No, I don't even know. I suppose, it's meant to be the object ball, but I sometimes I find myself looking at the white."
That's a 10 year old quote, in a much more recent post Stephen Hendry includes Ronnie in his statement. Given his credentials as a player and analyst in commentary I put a lot of weight in his words.