Super Aramith Pro Balls Skidding

I had Super Aramith (one year old) and Centennials (20 years old) on my home table with the red dot, blue dot and measles cue balls. Skid seemed to be more function of dirty balls and super clean (new) cloth (Simonis 860). The measles ball produced a little more skid (it is a little heavier).

To me skid means the OB is sliding like an ash tray after it is hit.

I think the other way I have heard this expressed is “cling.” Dirty balls tend to cling and drive the OB forward. This can at times appear to be “skid.”

Best solution for me is clean balls (using Aramith ball cleaner) and 860 cloth.

Where I play now, I have a set of Super Aramith balls for my own use and at times use the excessively dirty house balls. The dirty balls on the same table require a different approach to the game. When I use them outside English is a requirement on many cut shots. Inside English is required for slight angles to keep the OB on line.

I don’t know why, but dirty cloth does not seem to contribute to skid or cling. It just slows things down a little.
 
Joe T said:
I’m gonna take my stab at this, was gonna do it on the diamond table thread but couldn’t get through 13 pages.

Could be as simple as new balls are the same size and when they’re the same size they meet at the equator more often which makes it easier for the cb to pull down on the ob.

Most pool rooms the cbs are smaller than the object balls cuz they get worn out faster and they would be hitting slightly under the ob equator and I would think that would make it tougher for the cb to climb up on the ob causing a slight backspin. (Home sets get worn less)

Also in most pool room sets the 8, 9 & 1 B may be slightly smaller making it easier for cbs to climb up on, hence the dreaded 9B skid struck at that oh so careful speed.

I use to play in a room where I cut balls thinner and cleaner than any other room and never knew why till one day I measured and noticed how worn out and small the cbs where. Smaller cbs did 2 things (I think)
1 is if I was aiming with what my brain thought was 2 ¼ inch ball bit was really 2 1/8 well then guess what, thinner hit and 2 perhaps the cb was hitting slightly under the equator make CID in general less?

And the last thing I would think is that cleaner dry cloth offers less friction at the base of the ball and that makes it a little easier to pull off line but that one I really don’t know about?

The reason I was gonna post it on the diamond thread is because most of the time in recent years our events are on clean diamonds with new balls and I think the same thing would be happening if it were any other table in the same places.

I just hit some 30 degree shots without marking up the balls to make them skid or anything and with a quick look I think a slightly bigger cb on a smaller ob has the most CID. I used 3 different cbs with 2 sizes of object balls.

That’s my guess.
Would I bet a pinky on it? No
but I'll take it over the static electricity ;)
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Are you sure that a cue ball got worn down 1/8th of a inch or was it already that size. You can buy 2 1/8 in cue balls. I would be amazed if you could wear a CB down that much. Now I'm gonna have to go home and measure my balls!:yikes: Interesting theory though.
 
This is too easy to figure out. Play with the balls at home for a few racks and notice how they respond. Than take them to a PH and tell them that you will be also using your own balls and let them know what you are doing. Play a few racks with your balls and then a few with the balls from the PH. This will give you a comparison.
 
Cdryden said:
Are you sure that a cue ball got worn down 1/8th of a inch or was it already that size. You can buy 2 1/8 in cue balls. I would be amazed if you could wear a CB down that much. Now I'm gonna have to go home and measure my balls!:yikes: Interesting theory though.
Click to expand...

No I'm not sure about that, I just threw that # out there to represent a smaller size. They do get obviously smaller though.
Yeah I think the theory would be pretty easy to test too.
 
Fatboy said:
Gary,


hope have been well, and no I invented that word and will use it time to time, I must be respectful to Mike, Jerry, and Mr. Wilson the bosses here at AZB. Otherwise I'd use it in every post I make on this topic of skidding balls, I might even change my screen name. But Simonis is a sponser and they are a great company for pool, that seems to have ruined their product line-for reasons unknown to me.

I have all the top of the line Aramith balls, Durmith 4 balls, TV Balls, Old and new sets. Same for Centennials and 6 or 7 different kinds of "Good" CB's and we get skids here constantly(in the dry air of Vegas or the CB jumps op sometimes 3/4" at the most, usually its 1/4", sometimes the OB jumps up but usually not as high.

As a matter of fact I was out of Vegas for a month and the first time I hit balls 4 nights ago for 15 minutes I was shooting all the balls into one hole for practice, I have poor lighting over my Diamond able right now(another story) I could see 4 out of 5 OB's jump up(or hop up) 1/8" clear as could be because the light is not directly above the table, so its easy to see the balls jump, and while I made them the CB's intended path wasnt rolling true as a result. I almost made a thread about that. The ratio of skids to hops is about 6 hops and 4 skids out of every 10 times thats gonna happen, which can be in EVERY rack of one pocket when its real dry. Dosent happen at Cue Club here because with all the people inside the humidity is high enough that it happens less often.

I dont remember what cloth I played on in Koln Germany, Dirk Janis would know, if you read this Dirk please let me know, I'm switching to that cloth, it was dry there and We didnt have any skids, I watched the Premire League players play and one guy had a horrible skid, not a jump/hop, but skid-just one and I played and watched enough pool to see enough to know thats the cloth I want.

I have old Simonis it has "Fuzz" on it, Tony at Black Boar has real old 860, its fuzzy too and its clear to anyone who can see, or blind people who can feel, they are shaving the fuzz right doen to the weave nowdays, the cloth plays longer and sliperlyer. Thats why 860 came out as 760 was to slick. now the difference between 860 and 760 isnt as much as when Simonis had it right.

.
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From the Milliken Website -

"SuperPro is also the official and exclusive cloth of the Deutsche Billard Union in Germany and is used at all Premier League events and the German national championships. "

http://www.milliken-wsp.co.uk/en-gb/Pages/american_pool_cloths.aspx

I have heard that one of the reasons lots of players prefer the Milliken Super Pro is the lack of skid.

Disclaimer - I sell Milliken
 
i have played with so many balls, havent we all. but by far the most skids i ever got was on a table i played on ALL the time, and with a brand new set of centennials. after i had them a few days the skids stopped. i never cleaned or touched them when i first got them either. i personally have ruled out the table, cloth, and the conditions (humidity). i dont know, never could figure it... i dont really care is the truth, but never seen that rate again.

edit: i have to add my theory, i never gave it much credence, but i always thought the explination of the above was a film on the balls put on after production (although this doesnt jive with the op multiple cleanings-- maybe the film is hard to get off?).... maybe a protective film?? maybe even some chemical on there incidentally?
 
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Joe T said:
I’m gonna take my stab at this, was gonna do it on the diamond table thread but couldn’t get through 13 pages.

Could be as simple as new balls are the same size and when they’re the same size they meet at the equator more often which makes it easier for the cb to pull down on the ob.

Most pool rooms the cbs are smaller than the object balls cuz they get worn out faster and they would be hitting slightly under the ob equator and I would think that would make it tougher for the cb to climb up on the ob causing a slight backspin. (Home sets get worn less)

Also in most pool room sets the 8, 9 & 1 B may be slightly smaller making it easier for cbs to climb up on, hence the dreaded 9B skid struck at that oh so careful speed.

I use to play in a room where I cut balls thinner and cleaner than any other room and never knew why till one day I measured and noticed how worn out and small the cbs where. Smaller cbs did 2 things (I think)
1 is if I was aiming with what my brain thought was 2 ¼ inch ball bit was really 2 1/8 well then guess what, thinner hit and 2 perhaps the cb was hitting slightly under the equator make CID in general less?

And the last thing I would think is that cleaner dry cloth offers less friction at the base of the ball and that makes it a little easier to pull off line but that one I really don’t know about?

The reason I was gonna post it on the diamond thread is because most of the time in recent years our events are on clean diamonds with new balls and I think the same thing would be happening if it were any other table in the same places.

I just hit some 30 degree shots without marking up the balls to make them skid or anything and with a quick look I think a slightly bigger cb on a smaller ob has the most CID. I used 3 different cbs with 2 sizes of object balls.

That’s my guess.
Would I bet a pinky on it? No
but I'll take it over the static electricity ;)
Click to expand...

this is truly great thinking. not sure if any of those are right, could be, but again those are some great thoughts. cheers
 
I used that NIR chalk for a little while and I swear that stuff used to cause it like no tomorrow. I don't think there is a solid explanation for skids.
 
I play in a pool hall here in the Chicago burbs and every Thursday they clean the balls and apply some slippery crap which makes them skid all over hell. I have tried to find out what in hell they are using and they refuse to tell me. They actually think it's funny and so far I've been unable to convince them to change. It is so bad that I cannot pick up four balls in one hand they will slip out of your grip. The good news is after about two hours of constant league play they are almost normal again! Many of the folks that run pool halls are truly clueless and not pool players which may be a large part of the problem..
 
....well here's a thought

SpiderWebComm said:
Can someone explain how the cloth affects skidding? Logically, it's hard for me to get my hands around that. I can understand ball cleanliness and humidity -- but, I'm confused how the cloth would play a part.

I have 760 that's about 3 years old and is wore in pretty good. If the general consensus is that cloth affects (or can affect for that matter) skidding, I'm going to go ahead and get it re-covered.

I'm considering 860HR --- if you were going to re-cloth your table, what would you choose??

Dave
Click to expand...
.....someone in this thread called it, slippery cloth [(like 760) originally billiard cloth, clean balls, even more skids! Dirty cloth isn't the answer either, but there's a balance, it would seem, between clean balls, slightly untidy cloth=lower skids. Dirty balls, clean slippery cloth=higher skid ratio.

I'm sure the genius's out there, already KNOW ALL THIS, but will require S-C-I-E-N-T-I-F-I-C verification, of this speculation. A possible answer might be, to leave the cloth a bit longer before cleaning(a couple of weeks) and still keep your balls real clean! Makes for a cheap experiment that may produce some interesting results. More friction between clean balls and the "dirty" cloth probably, does, have something to do with it.

By the way, IMHO the Brunswick Centennial Cloth skids quite a bit more than Simonis 860, Hmmmmm!:idea2:
 
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