I agree it is possible, I do not know the layout of the balls. Maybe someone can post up a diagram since we have no video.
SVB - Bank Story Clarification
- Thread starter BarTableMan
- Start date
I agree it is possible, I do not know the layout of the balls. Maybe someone can post up a diagram since we have no video.
I reran the replay over and over in the booth.... Shane did call the 4 and then made some adjustments but failed to call the 2 which he drilled....
Where the mistake was made was the concession of the game..... Greg made it clear after that happened that balls were to be replaced by whatever means necessary and he never wanted to see that happen again.....
We had a very similar deal in 1pocket the next day when an owed ball was almost slept on what was thought to be an 8 and out and balls had to be replaced...
To be fair tho Shane did shake his head after he pocketed the 2railer and without knowing what was in his head it could have been taken to indicate that wasn't the right pocket... He also picks up his pace about the time he gets to the side pocket and sees Morra grabbing his balls to bring them up for the next game....
Shane was beside himself after the whole incident luckily it wasn't enough to keep him from Snapping off the 1pocket and 9ball.....
Where the mistake was made was the concession of the game..... Greg made it clear after that happened that balls were to be replaced by whatever means necessary and he never wanted to see that happen again.....
We had a very similar deal in 1pocket the next day when an owed ball was almost slept on what was thought to be an 8 and out and balls had to be replaced...
To be fair tho Shane did shake his head after he pocketed the 2railer and without knowing what was in his head it could have been taken to indicate that wasn't the right pocket... He also picks up his pace about the time he gets to the side pocket and sees Morra grabbing his balls to bring them up for the next game....
Shane was beside himself after the whole incident luckily it wasn't enough to keep him from Snapping off the 1pocket and 9ball.....
I have made the 2 & 4 rail bank on a diamond bb and my table with the ball on the spot and the cb on the head string and a ball width off the cushion. The 2 rail has to be hit close (1 ball width)to the pocket and the 4 rail 3 ball widths away from the pocket. A firm draw with a tip outside.
There's nothing like trying a shot to see what works. At least on the GC3s around here, the two-rail off the spot is not hard and it can even come in short. I like it better than the 4-railer because it is easier to play safe -- more natural separation of CB and OB..
Forgive if this sounds naive, but shane doesn't play a lot of banks, correct? Is it possible he thought you just need to call the pocket, and if it banks in clean (irrespective of # of rails), it's good. Unlikely, but possible in the heat of the moment etc??
No; the 4-railer and the 2-railer go in diagonally opposite corner pockets, not the same pocket.
Easy fix so it
never ever happens again.Call each and every shot like real bank pool players do.I've been preaching this same exact thing for all my years of playing bank pool.It's a very simple and easy thing to do.It does not matter how easy or obvious the shot looks either.I'm pretty sure that in bank pool it's call your shot.Anyone playing me better call their shot or they are not getting it,period.I've said this before..watch me or Truman Houge.He and I will call out or point to the pocket when playing bank pool on EACH and EVERY shot.I just don't see why so many players have so hard of a time doing that.Makes me very angry.:angry: Nobody in the "world" is good enough that they don't have to call each and every shot when playing me.I give them the same respect too.Quick fix..call it or you don't get it.Should I say it again?
If SVB didn't call the right pocket then he moves the ball or balls..loss of game.Pretty simple really.
Sidenote: yes it is very easy for this to happen.Call a ball 4 rails and it goes two.
I've seen it happen a 1000 times..at least. John B.
never ever happens again.Call each and every shot like real bank pool players do.I've been preaching this same exact thing for all my years of playing bank pool.It's a very simple and easy thing to do.It does not matter how easy or obvious the shot looks either.I'm pretty sure that in bank pool it's call your shot.Anyone playing me better call their shot or they are not getting it,period.I've said this before..watch me or Truman Houge.He and I will call out or point to the pocket when playing bank pool on EACH and EVERY shot.I just don't see why so many players have so hard of a time doing that.Makes me very angry.:angry: Nobody in the "world" is good enough that they don't have to call each and every shot when playing me.I give them the same respect too.Quick fix..call it or you don't get it.Should I say it again?
If SVB didn't call the right pocket then he moves the ball or balls..loss of game.Pretty simple really.
Sidenote: yes it is very easy for this to happen.Call a ball 4 rails and it goes two.
I've seen it happen a 1000 times..at least. John B.
JB;
I heard you discuss this very thing during an interview a while back, I believe it may have been with Samm Diep, no, it may have been another girl at last year's DCC.
Well anyway, she brought it up and you expanded on it saying that you want to make every intended shot clear to your opponents, even obvious ones that many don't call, you do.
I think everyone should pay attention to this example by a Hall of Fame World Champion bank pool player. :thumbup:
Best,
Brian kc
I heard you discuss this very thing during an interview a while back, I believe it may have been with Samm Diep, no, it may have been another girl at last year's DCC.
Well anyway, she brought it up and you expanded on it saying that you want to make every intended shot clear to your opponents, even obvious ones that many don't call, you do.
I think everyone should pay attention to this example by a Hall of Fame World Champion bank pool player. :thumbup:
Best,
Brian kc
Thanks my good buddy.Yes I have been harping on this same thing for years and years.Each and every bank shot is very easy to miss.So why should anyone not have to call each and every shot? This aint straight pool people, this is banking them into the pockets.Man I could just go on and on about this.She was asking me why did i call the same shot more than once alot of the times and I told her because I wanted to make it perfectly clear
so there would be no guessing as to what I'm shooting at and calling which pocket.I learned long ago that it was better just to call EACH and EVERY shot.Onemore time...this aint straight pool.Sorry,not yelling at you,just all the ones that don't call EACH and EVERY shot.My rant might be over good buddy,LOL John B.
No and wrong.The mistake was him failing to call the two as you just said at the begining of your post.John B.
You mean to tell me that as good as he plays he might not know the rules?
Wow is all i can say to that.He might be one of them guys that because he plays so good that well he just doesn't need to call his shots.I'm not knocking SVB.I also think he's very good for pool and I like him alot as a person and a player.And I forgive you,lol.John B.
I was there in person, but was a good 20 feet from the table at the back of the standing room only crowd.
I couldn't hear a word from the table, I was too far away.
To me, I thought I saw him point to the 2 rail pocket with his stick, but it was not super clear or obvious. Then he shot it. To me, it looked like he shot it not 2 or even 4 rail speed, but 6 rail speed. In other words, he shot it the speed for if missing 4 rails, it would go 2 more rails to get the OB away from that side of the table. The angle to me just did not look like a 2 rail angle at all, combined with the speed he hit it at. The OB looked like it hit within an inch of the corner pocket on the first short rail and then went in cleanly 2 rails. I personally think he miss hit the shot as I don't think anyone would play that shot 2 rails, where it has to hit within an inch of the corner for it to go. (Of course, I suck...., and what do I know
)
After the shot, everyone clapped, then things happened quickly. The balls were swept up. I don't recall if Shane or John or both swept them up. Then I see Shane and John talking at the table, and then Ken comes and joins them. I can't hear a word they are saying, and I don't think much of the audience can either. They are talking for a good 5 minutes it seems to me, and we, the audience, are all waiting in suspense.
Then Ken awards John the game, and said why. We couldn't hear him, so he goes to get the mic and repeats what he said. Paraphrased (but I believe to be very accurate) this is what he said: "Shane called 4 rails, the ball went 2 rails, shane disturbed all the balls afterwards, and therefore the game is awarded to John"
About an hour later, I was walking out of the tournament room, and Shane was talking to a fan that he knew. The fan asked him about a shot in the Bank Pool final. He was actually asking about another shot, but Shane misunderstood and started talking about the 2/4 rail shot. Shane said (again paraphrased, but I believe its almost verbatim of what he said to the best of my recollection):
"I called the ball 4 rails." <slight pause> "It went 2 rails" <slight pause> "Everyone started clapping" <slight pause> Then he stopped talking, and lifted his hands in the air and shook his head. That was it, then the guy informed him he was asking about another shot, and shane answered him about that other shot.
So I agree with Justin... I think Shane just had a brain fart.
I also agree with Ken's decision, since all the balls were disturbed by Shane.
The only thing I'm not sure of is if John or Shane disturbed the balls first. I didn't notice who did first. It happened fast. Maybe if John did first, they should have tried to replace them and carry on the game. But if Shane did, then for sure the loss of game was the correct call, imo.
I couldn't hear a word from the table, I was too far away.
To me, I thought I saw him point to the 2 rail pocket with his stick, but it was not super clear or obvious. Then he shot it. To me, it looked like he shot it not 2 or even 4 rail speed, but 6 rail speed. In other words, he shot it the speed for if missing 4 rails, it would go 2 more rails to get the OB away from that side of the table. The angle to me just did not look like a 2 rail angle at all, combined with the speed he hit it at. The OB looked like it hit within an inch of the corner pocket on the first short rail and then went in cleanly 2 rails. I personally think he miss hit the shot as I don't think anyone would play that shot 2 rails, where it has to hit within an inch of the corner for it to go. (Of course, I suck...., and what do I know
)After the shot, everyone clapped, then things happened quickly. The balls were swept up. I don't recall if Shane or John or both swept them up. Then I see Shane and John talking at the table, and then Ken comes and joins them. I can't hear a word they are saying, and I don't think much of the audience can either. They are talking for a good 5 minutes it seems to me, and we, the audience, are all waiting in suspense.
Then Ken awards John the game, and said why. We couldn't hear him, so he goes to get the mic and repeats what he said. Paraphrased (but I believe to be very accurate) this is what he said: "Shane called 4 rails, the ball went 2 rails, shane disturbed all the balls afterwards, and therefore the game is awarded to John"
About an hour later, I was walking out of the tournament room, and Shane was talking to a fan that he knew. The fan asked him about a shot in the Bank Pool final. He was actually asking about another shot, but Shane misunderstood and started talking about the 2/4 rail shot. Shane said (again paraphrased, but I believe its almost verbatim of what he said to the best of my recollection):
"I called the ball 4 rails." <slight pause> "It went 2 rails" <slight pause> "Everyone started clapping" <slight pause> Then he stopped talking, and lifted his hands in the air and shook his head. That was it, then the guy informed him he was asking about another shot, and shane answered him about that other shot.
So I agree with Justin... I think Shane just had a brain fart.
I also agree with Ken's decision, since all the balls were disturbed by Shane.
The only thing I'm not sure of is if John or Shane disturbed the balls first. I didn't notice who did first. It happened fast. Maybe if John did first, they should have tried to replace them and carry on the game. But if Shane did, then for sure the loss of game was the correct call, imo.
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Hehe, yep. I though he may not know, but i thought the ball went in the pocket he called, but not the number of rails he called (i understood it wrong).
One thing is for sure... this dvd might end up being a best seller, so we can all see for ourselves what happened. lol
When Shane had the brain fart he was leading 7-6 The ball he shot was the only 1 in play... The last object ball was actually in the bottom right corner frozen to the facing it was so deep... The cue ball had yet to be moved from Shane's shot...
Simple solution was to remove the balls Morra and Kenny retrieved, spot the fluked ball and let the game continue... Would have taken 30 seconds to have had the image up on the monitor down by Ken so he could have made sure the balls were 100% back in the right place..... I don't think anyone in the arena wanted to see that game conceded as it was....
Which is exactly why Greg made the ruling for future matches.... No concession go to the video and put the balls back.....
I agree with Brumback that EVERY ball should be called out loud and proud obvious or not if the rules state it is required....
Read back thru this black spot from last year as another reminder......
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=243692&highlight=marc+vidal
You can never get the balls back 100% like you can't unring a bell once it has rung.
If the proper pocket and/or route to the pocket wasn't properly called and balls were swept, then I agree with Ken's decision to award that game to John.
The peril of implementing a new policy like Greg is suggesting would be that there could be potential abuse. Not that clever pool players would think to do such a thing.
And seriously, if Shane really had a momentary lapse, it truly is a lousy way to lose that game but rules are rules.
John shouldn't be penalized over Shane's mistake, right?
Best,
Brian kc
Rule was implemented that night, not just suggested and it was put into use the very next night in a 1pocket game where Appleton ran 8 and the balls got raked before they realized he owed a ball....
John should never have been penalized for Shane's mistake but spotting the ball and replacing the one out of play really would not have been a penalty...
John should never have been penalized for Shane's mistake but spotting the ball and replacing the one out of play really would not have been a penalty...
It was 4-3 Shane ahead at the time of the shot. So after he made the 2-railer, only the CB and one OB were on the table. Shane picked up the CB (his brain spasm).
It isnt a spasm, it isnt a fart.
You nut huggers kill me.
He called 4 made it in 2 and tried to take credit for it.
You guys remind me of politicans, just say what it is (or was).
That is cheating, call it what it is. I am not saying he raped a 12 year old girl, I am saying he tried to cheat, got caught, lost a game.
Discussions of him being disqualified, barred, whatever. Im not saying what the should have happened.
But the AZ NUT HUGGER club is always in full force.
UGH
Ken
You nut huggers kill me.
He called 4 made it in 2 and tried to take credit for it.
You guys remind me of politicans, just say what it is (or was).
That is cheating, call it what it is. I am not saying he raped a 12 year old girl, I am saying he tried to cheat, got caught, lost a game.
Discussions of him being disqualified, barred, whatever. Im not saying what the should have happened.
But the AZ NUT HUGGER club is always in full force.
UGH
Ken