SVB vs Chang Update Thread

[HawaiianEye]

Oh really? Can you elaborate?

Wrong forum to discuss in.

This is the pool forum.

 

[easy-e]

I paid the most - $1,000 betting on Shane - there is NO doubt I lost the bet. It looks like everybody
else feels the same. Quit chiming in with your
non betting ass and let us who lost loose with dignity

I don’t understand. If anyone feels attacked by my post then they don’t understand either.

 

[SBC]

SVB should play Filler.
I think they could settle on the game or play a day of 9ball and a day of 10. Then a rubber match decider if they needed day 3.

SVB is the one with the title to lose ... So I can see why he might duck Filler. Roy would back Filler so it's really up to SVB .

 

[Diamond69]

Filler and Gorst came on the scene in a flash. Both young and very talented. In the internet world, everyone is eager to name the next king of pool. Filler, being young and cocky, even proclaimed it himself at the Mosconi Cup after beating Shane in a race to 5.

Again, both are great without a doubt, but if you look at more recent results, they are not dominating the fields of any tournaments. Here is how I would predict the outcomes in a long race of 10 ball vs. SVB...

Filler - Comes out confident and sinking balls from everywhere, but over the course of a few days, doesn't have the mental makeup of the pressure involved in a match like this. At some point hitting a mini slump that would get in his head. Loses by 10-15 games (no, I'm not giving games for those that want to 'book this right now'.)

Gorst - Better mental game and more steady and focused, but doesn't have the higher gear that Filler has. Plays well, stays steady. This match might look like the SVB/Chang match, but I think Gorst plays 10 ball at a slightly lower level of Chang, so probably loses by 20 games.

Feel free to abuse my on my predictions and analysis. That's what forums are for.

 

[railbird25]

Filler wants 9b.

If any of the big players wants a chance in 10b, keep the race to 20-30.

I think the answer is pretty simple, just play races to 25-30 and play the best 3 out of 5 sets. This should satisfy all parties.

 

[skogstokig]

I think the answer is pretty simple, just play races to 25-30 and play the best 3 out of 5 sets. This should satisfy all parties.

it's funny cause i don't mind long one pocket matches, but these rotation races to forever bores me. i was about to suggest chang vs kaci, if chang won this one, then it hit me how absurdly slow and dragged out it would be

 

[SBC]

Filler and Gorst came on the scene in a flash. Both young and very talented. In the internet world, everyone is eager to name the next king of pool. Filler, being young and cocky, even proclaimed it himself at the Mosconi Cup after beating Shane in a race to 5.

Again, both are great without a doubt, but if you look at more recent results, they are not dominating the fields of any tournaments. Here is how I would predict the outcomes in a long race of 10 ball vs. SVB...

Filler - Comes out confident and sinking balls from everywhere, but over the course of a few days, doesn't have the mental makeup of the pressure involved in a match like this. At some point hitting a mini slump that would get in his head. Loses by 10-15 games (no, I'm not giving games for those that want to 'book this right now'.)

Gorst - Better mental game and more steady and focused, but doesn't have the higher gear that Filler has. Plays well, stays steady. This match might look like the SVB/Chang match, but I think Gorst plays 10 ball at a slightly lower level of Chang, so probably loses by 20 games.

Feel free to abuse my on my predictions and analysis. That's what forums are for.

Filler is an absolute beast. I would not bet against him.

Gorst is not at SVBs level...but very solid.

 

[SBC]

I think the answer is pretty simple, just play races to 25-30 and play the best 3 out of 5 sets. This should satisfy all parties.

Exactly...just like in tennis, best of 5 sets...have win by 2 in any set, sorta like a tiebreak in tennis. It's really the best format versus these epic long races

 

[Black-Balled]

All I know is if this holds its a bad deal for a lot of folks. There's no way to not be bitter as fck if you laid some games that ultimately got covered. Everybody has morals that are set up differently though and the truth is good communication squashes everything. Wait for the next action match and watch how people word their bets super carefully from now on. That's the true impact here. Action room has been dying a slow death but rest assured...this will kill it.

Like jay said earlier, betting on pool matches has always been a risky proposition. Seems like that section's gang is pretty well aligned with behaviors and expectations, so hopefully this doesn't make too many waves over there.

Ethically (lol) and morally (lolol), the right thing is almost definitely to pay based on the spread on the originally stated finish line. It was the context for both the match and for the spreads laid out in anticipation of it.

If someone bets Shane 'finishes x games ahead of Chang,', can we not see an svb bettor claiming the win?

It's all in the agreement's language...

 

[HawaiianEye]

Well I guess you said enough to show your wisdom anyway

Exactly...just like in tennis, best of 5 sets...have win by 2 in any set, sorta like a tiebreak in tennis. It's really the best format versus these epic long races

When playing for the cash, the players prefer to play whatever they think they have a better chance of winning at.

They don’t care what you think.

 

[Black-Balled]

The advertised race I think is what you mean? I think someone who is actually in on the match or maybe even raise1 should come in here and discuss how all of this happened. That type of clarity would go a very long way. You don't see boxers get in the ring for a 10 round fight and instead of going to the scorecard they stretch it out to 12 rounds. For this to be a promoted ppv event the viewers deserve a little more clarity. That's really all I'm saying.

Agreed. When did the players propose, consider and agree to the change?

Was it even the players who made the determination to extend.

It is impossible to argue the appearance of impropriety and an explanation should be issued.

 

[penguin]

I wonder why people agree to play SVB in these marathon 10 ball matches- seems like everybody is a clear underdog.

Because it's a FREE payday for both players.

The stakehorses, side bettors, and PPV buyers are the only ones who are getting a raw deal.

With all the funny stuff in these last few PPV Money Grab™ streams, I would never bet a quarter on any match that either Dennis Orcollo or Shane is involved in.

For anyone who thinks these matches are 100% on the up and up, Cliff Joyner would like to hold a few hundred of your money and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Because it's a FREE payday for both players.

The stakehorses, side bettors, and PPV buyers are the only ones who are getting a raw deal.

With all the funny stuff in these last few PPV Money Grab™ streams, I would never bet a quarter on any match that either Dennis Orcollo or Shane is involved in.

For anyone who thinks these matches are 100% on the up and up, Cliff Joyner would like to hold a few hundred of your money and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

View attachment 610948

I have never bet a dime on anyone but myself.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

To elaborate on post 496, the difference is that a football game has multiple possible ending points depending on the score, and both betting parties know that in advance. It ends at the end of the fourth quarter if one team is ahead, ends with the first score during overtime if it goes to overtime, etc. With pool there is not multiple ending points for a match. It ends at the number of games won that was agreed on, period.

For anybody who was betting on who would get to 120 first with no game spots involved, or if a 4 or less game spot was involved, either party should have the option to call off the bet once the match length was changed to a different length. Maybe they like a guy's endurance over 3 days, but not over 4 days. Maybe they only want to sweat bet a match they can watch at the same time to add excitement and give a reason to watch and get into it, and they could watch the three days the match was scheduled for but can't watch that 4th day. Maybe they like getting 4 games on the wire when it is a race to 120, but would have wanted more than that if it were a race to 155. Could be lots and lots of valid reasons why you would bet on a 3 day race to 120, but want to bet differently or not at all on a 4 day race to 155.

And in case somebody might say that for bets with no or four or less game spots then the bet should still pay off based on who hits 120 first even though they are playing past that... Doesn't sound reasonable because the players might play differently going from 115 to 120 in a race to 120 than they would play going from 115-120 during a race to 155. In a race to 120 their only goal is going to be to bear down their hardest and win 5 more games before the other guy does. But once it is extended to 155, chances are from 115-120 they are playing differently and pacing themselves more, not so worried about every game at that point, maybe even using that time period to try to free wheel and get loose and get in stroke or whatever the case rather than focusing solely on trying to win those particular games. The bet was for a match to 120, and if there is no longer a match to 120, there is no longer a bet.

Things are different for anybody that was giving up 5 or more games on the wire. That bet is over and you lost, time to pay up. That bet was lost before the the decision to extend the match was even made, and is completely unaffected by the fact that it is going to end up being extended. The bet was lost while the match was still under the conditions you expected them to be when the bet was made.

Tap, Tap, Tap. Very well said and I have changed my mind now and totally agree with the above comments.

 

[jay helfert]

Because it's a FREE payday for both players.

The stakehorses, side bettors, and PPV buyers are the only ones who are getting a raw deal.

With all the funny stuff in these last few PPV Money Grab™ streams, I would never bet a quarter on any match that either Dennis Orcollo or Shane is involved in.

For anyone who thinks these matches are 100% on the up and up, Cliff Joyner would like to hold a few hundred of your money and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

View attachment 610948

I love this photo! These two guys have had this weird love/hate relationship going on for a long time. Methinks they know something we don't.
I'd like to think that their relationship has been molded in the respect they have gained for each other as great pool players and competitors.

 

[JolietJames]

Because it's a FREE payday for both players.

The stakehorses, side bettors, and PPV buyers are the only ones who are getting a raw deal.

With all the funny stuff in these last few PPV Money Grab™ streams, I would never bet a quarter on any match that either Dennis Orcollo or Shane is involved in.

For anyone who thinks these matches are 100% on the up and up, Cliff Joyner would like to hold a few hundred of your money and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Cliff is probably already holding a few hundred of my money.
I haven't the time to watch these streams but you pay for the entertainment, nothing else IMO.
I'd like to see this last one though due to the high shooting percentage.

 

[penguin]

Methinks they know something we don't.

Probably a very accurate count of how much $$$ they made off of the stakehorses and side bettors

 

[Fatboy]

End of the day the casinos are the real winners.

 

[mikeyfrost]

Agreed. When did the players propose, consider and agree to the change?

Was it even the players who made the determination to extend.

It is impossible to argue the appearance of impropriety and an explanation should be issued.

When you relate it to sports the flawed logic is apparent. During a football game, regulation ends in a tie, one team is getting 3 points on the spread....the bet isn't settled until an end result is settled right. The only time the spread of a game matters is when the exact result is reached...which is to say the game is finished being played. I don't know tho

 

[Poolplaya9]

When you relate it to sports the flawed logic is apparent. During a football game, regulation ends in a tie, one team is getting 3 points on the spread....the bet isn't settled until an end result is settled right. The only time the spread of a game matters is when the exact result is reached...which is to say the game is finished being played. I don't know tho

A football game is set up to end based solely on a time limit, with permanent rules that are set in place in advance that will extend the game by additional set amounts of time when the score is tied at the point that would have otherwise been the game ending time limit (done to hopefully avoid the game ending on a tie score, something that isn't possible in pool), so there are multiple possible ending points for a football game since it is time based.

Pool on the other hand is set to end only when a final score is reached, time has nothing to do with it, ties are not possible, etc. There is not multiple other possible ending points for a pool match as there is in football because pool is based only on the score, and not on time limits. A pool match has only one possible ending point, and that is when a player reaches the pre-agreed upon number of games to make them the winner. They are two completely different animals.