SVB vs Chang Update Thread

[iusedtoberich]

I'm so glad I didn't bet on this match. I don't think I'll bet on an Omega match again. They did the same thing a few months back I think it was the Sky/Dennis match at 3AM or thereabouts the commentators were trying to call the backers to see if they can extend the race if it ties up soon. I had a bet on that match (and was on the losing side). I was shaking my head if the match was going to be extended. Not because of the money, but because of all the drama. Thankfully that match never tied up and was not extended. Now we have the drama on this match that was extended.

Here is a devils advocate question:

Race to 120, Shane vs Dennis, betting line is if Dennis gets to 106, Dennis wins.

Score is TIED at 105-105, and the players/promoters/streamer/etc agree to extend the race to 155 for a 4th day.

What happens to the side bets? Surely, Dennis would have won one more game and covered had they not stopped for the night. Are all bets off?

 

[Poolplaya9]

I'm so glad I didn't bet on this match. I don't think I'll bet on an Omega match again. They did the same thing a few months back I think it was the Sky/Dennis match at 3AM or thereabouts the commentators were trying to call the backers to see if they can extend the race if it ties up soon. I had a bet on that match (and was on the losing side). I was shaking my head if the match was going to be extended. Not because of the money, but because of all the drama. Thankfully that match never tied up and was not extended. Now we have the drama on this match that was extended.

Here is a devils advocate question:

Race to 120, Shane vs Dennis, betting line is if Dennis gets to 106, Dennis wins.

Score is TIED at 105-105, and the players/promoters/streamer/etc agree to extend the race to 155 for a 4th day.

What happens to the side bets? Surely, Dennis would have won one more game and covered had they not stopped for the night. Are all bets off?

All active bets based on it being a race to 120, which this bet was, are off. How can you continue to have an active bet based on a match to 120, if a match to 120 no longer exists?

Agreed that it would suck for those that had Dennis and 14 games on the wire, because odds are obviously real strong (although it isn't a guarantee) that Dennis would have won one more game before Shane won fifteen more games. You could just as easily be on the other side though when something like this happens.

 

[jasonlaus]

Let me ask you guys a question because I've already stated I had no horse in this race. Did you have any bets on this match????Let's find out if you're as unbiased in this as me...

Jaden

I had $1,000 bet on Shane - I paid immediately

 

[Black-Balled]

I'm so glad I didn't bet on this match. I don't think I'll bet on an Omega match again. They did the same thing a few months back I think it was the Sky/Dennis match at 3AM or thereabouts the commentators were trying to call the backers to see if they can extend the race if it ties up soon. I had a bet on that match (and was on the losing side). I was shaking my head if the match was going to be extended. Not because of the money, but because of all the drama. Thankfully that match never tied up and was not extended. Now we have the drama on this match that was extended.

Here is a devils advocate question:

Race to 120, Shane vs Dennis, betting line is if Dennis gets to 106, Dennis wins.

Score is TIED at 105-105, and the players/promoters/streamer/etc agree to extend the race to 155 for a 4th day.

What happens to the side bets? Surely, Dennis would have won one more game and covered had they not stopped for the night. Are all bets off?

The beginning of your post is precisely why I keep asking about when the discussion was had about extending it. The players were playing and I seriously doubt they came up with the idea, considered it and agreed upon it in the last bit of play on that third day.

I have a feeling the extension was imposed upon them and they happily agreed to it. That throws a whole another can of worms into the mix, one that in my opinion has far more than the appearance of an impropriety.

 

[jasonlaus]

As said before, I totally agree that if that decision to extend the race was made before Chang hit 112, then that bet is cancelled. All accounts are that the decision to extend the race happened at 115-115, after Change already won all the bets where he was getting 5 or more on the wire and those bets were long won (or lost depending on which side you were on) and done.

In my opinion the bet is still on in this case.

As long as they don't shorten the race nothing changes at all, they are still going to 120 and the fact that they are now going to 155 doesn't change the bet to 120 at all. The match doesn't have to end at 120 as long as it makes it to 120 the bet is still valid

 

[BeiberLvr]

The beginning of your post is precisely why I keep asking about when the discussion was had about extending it. The players were playing and I seriously doubt they came up with the idea, considered it and agreed upon it in the last bit of play on that third day.

I have a feeling the extension was imposed upon them and they happily agreed to it. That throws a whole another can of worms into the mix, one that in my opinion has far more than the appearance of an impropriety.

This is from Shane's FB (public post)

 

[SBC]

When playing for the cash, the players prefer to play whatever they think they have a better chance of winning at.

They don’t care what you think.

Ok boss...

 

[jay helfert]

This is from Shane's FB (public post)

View attachment 611026

Great post from Shane. Classy as always!

 

[jay helfert]

You prove my point.... If the game was changed to a race to 80 at 60 games, would you expect original bets to still be valid??? NO!!! because the reasoning behind the bets are no longer valid. Any change in the game should result in the nullification of ANY BETS....

Jaden

Jaden, with all due respect, there is a big difference between shortening the race and lengthening it, and how it effects the betting line. I won't go into the whys and wherefores right now, but trust me when I tell you that please.

 

[Jaden]

I had $1,000 bet on Shane - I paid immediately

Good on you, I would've also if I was ever willing to give up games. But it can't be assumed is all I'm saying.

Jaden

 

[penguin]

Great post from Shane. Classy as always!

It's real easy to be "classy" when you win.

But it's fairly well-known that Shane pouts and cries and acts like a jerk when he's losing. You can ask Sky Woodward about that one.

Jay, you've been around pool long enough to know what this was. No need to sugar-coat it just because you made a few bucks.

 

[jay helfert]

It's real easy to be "classy" when you win.

But it's fairly well-known that Shane pouts and cries and acts like a jerk when he's losing. You can ask Sky Woodward about that one.

Jay, you've been around pool long enough to know what this was. No need to sugar-coat it just because you made a few bucks.

View attachment 611031

All of us have been assholes at one time or another! Shane is not perfect and neither are you or I. I will be the first to let him know when he gets out of line and at the same time acknowledge him for showing class and maturity. That is how life should work; reward the good behavior and denounce the bad behavior. We humans tend to make life far more complicated than it is. A simple life is a good life.

 

[Poolplaya9]

In my opinion the bet is still on in this case.

As long as they don't shorten the race nothing changes at all, they are still going to 120 and the fact that they are now going to 155 doesn't change the bet to 120 at all. The match doesn't have to end at 120 as long as it makes it to 120 the bet is still valid

In the case of Chang getting 8.5, what you are saying above obviously doesn't apply since the bet was already won and over when Chang reached 112.

For bets that had not already been won, where Chang was getting spotted 4 or less games on the wire, your above argument would on the surface seem to sound half reasonable, but when you think about it a little bit more it breaks down. Quoted down below are my comments from post #498 where I address the "since they are still playing through 120 anyway" argument and why I don't think it is a valid one. The only thing that is truly most logical for any scenario is that any still active not yet won bets that were based on a race to 120 are null and void as soon as there is no longer a race to 120 (how can you still have active bets based on a race to 120 when a race to 120 no longer exists?).

"And in case somebody might say that for bets with no or four or less game spots then the bet should still pay off based on who hits 120 first even though they are playing past that... Doesn't sound reasonable because the players might play differently going from 115 to 120 in a race to 120 than they would play going from 115-120 during a race to 155. In a race to 120 their only goal is going to be to bear down their hardest and win 5 more games before the other guy does. But once it is extended to 155, chances are from 115-120 they are playing differently and pacing themselves more, not so worried about every game at that point, maybe even using that time period to try to free wheel and get loose and get in stroke or whatever the case rather than focusing solely on trying to win those particular games. The bet was for a match to 120, and if there is no longer a match to 120, there is no longer a bet."

SVB vs Chang Update Thread

SVB 4-0

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[Black-Balled]

This is from Shane's FB (public post)

View attachment 611026

Thanks for that.
I wonder, When- on the stream- did the various offers occur? I wasn't watching.

The account of events clearly indicates more than just a brief exchange and it is highly likely there were additional communication issues, given the two parties... It's a somewhat complex agreement they came to and it's not something that is put forth, considered and then agreed upon without at least moderate attention to detail.

 

[Swighey]

All of us have been assholes at one time or another! Shane is not perfect and neither are you or I. I will be the first to let him know when he gets out of line and at the same time acknowledge him for showing class and maturity. That is how life should work; reward the good behavior and denounce the bad behavior. We humans tend to make life far more complicated than it is. A simple life is a good life.

I will respectfully disagree with you here. There is nothing classy, from either player, about halting a race to 120 at 115-115 and making it a race to 155. The players are beat at 115 so they agree to take a break and then talk about how cool the other guy is? Surely a long race is a long race - and at 115 if both players are dead, they should play on to see who is least dead. That surely is the whole point of a long race. Not that I watched, or was interested, or want to watch races to 120 so I don't even know why I'm posting.....

 

[realkingcobra]

I will respectfully disagree with you here. There is nothing classy, from either player, about halting a race to 120 at 115-115 and making it a race to 155. The players are beat at 115 so they agree to take a break and then talk about how cool the other guy is? Surely a long race is a long race - and at 115 if both players are dead, they should play on to see who is least dead. That surely is the whole point of a long race. Not that I watched, or was interested, or want to watch races to 120 so I don't even know why I'm posting.....

You can't help it, it's the AZB in your blood!

 

[iusedtoberich]

I will respectfully disagree with you here. There is nothing classy, from either player, about halting a race to 120 at 115-115 and making it a race to 155. The players are beat at 115 so they agree to take a break and then talk about how cool the other guy is? Surely a long race is a long race - and at 115 if both players are dead, they should play on to see who is least dead. That surely is the whole point of a long race. Not that I watched, or was interested, or want to watch races to 120 so I don't even know why I'm posting.....

This is a good point too. Since TAR 1 when the first race to 100 was played, everyone and their mother knew its a brutal format, and the players will be dead by the end. We've had so many of them now, and why in the world would anyone extend it to 120? 100 is already a long enough stamina test. One must conclude choosing 120 instead of 100 must have been in order TO make it more a stamina test. But then to quit the stamina test when it has actually been tested? Well that was the whole point. The whole match format made no sense.

 

[Poolplaya9]

There is nothing classy, from either player, about halting a race to 120 at 115-115 and making it a race to 155. The players are beat at 115 so they agree to take a break and then talk about how cool the other guy is? Surely a long race is a long race - and at 115 if both players are dead, they should play on to see who is least dead. That surely is the whole point of a long race.

While it effectively works out the same way for most practical purposes, technically they decided to both mutually forfeit the race to 120, and to start all over from scratch with a race to 40 the next day for the same bet amount.

 

[Swighey]

While it effectively works out the same way for most practical purposes, technically they decided to both mutually forfeit the race to 120, and to start all over from scratch with a race to 40 the next day for the same bet amount.

Yes. And I have nothing against either player, or against their nous for milking a situation. What interests me more is the lack of "they are both quitters" from proponents of super long races to see who is "the best".

 

[CaleAYS]

I will respectfully disagree with you here. There is nothing classy, from either player, about halting a race to 120 at 115-115 and making it a race to 155. The players are beat at 115 so they agree to take a break and then talk about how cool the other guy is? Surely a long race is a long race - and at 115 if both players are dead, they should play on to see who is least dead. That surely is the whole point of a long race. Not that I watched, or was interested, or want to watch races to 120 so I don't even know why I'm posting.....

I watched the match and it was a pretty big let down when they stopped. The match had shaped up being a epic knock down drag out fight to cross the finish line. Both players on fumes at 5am playing a race to 5 for the cash after battling for 3 days. I would of loved to see the end of it. Instead I watched a day 4 that turned into a runaway which was a pretty poor reflection on the match overall.
End of the day it’s Shane and Chang calling the shots since it’s their match and money at stake. I’m not mad or complaining, and I can’t blame em for wanting to extend it, but the match was a hell of a ride up until they stopped at 115 and it would of been fun to see how it would have played out.