Swanee payouts

[Bill S]

Flyers and a website for over 30% of the entry?

Hardtimes could have ran it themselves imo and filled the field, letting more than half of the players pay same day without any fees or major issues.

Again why did CSI take over this tournament if they hate pro pool, lose money, take away from the tournament, and everything becomes a hassle?

What do you mean "why did CSI take over this tournament?" That's the most uneducated thing I've read in this entire post. Mark Griffin created this tournament 22 years ago to honor Jay Swanson! He didn't do it to make money. Breaking even is a win. Also, it is not considered a pro tournament. Every time Satori goes to the keyboard he spews garbage!

Bill S

 

[Jaden]

They didn't take over anything...

Flyers and a website for over 30% of the entry?

Hardtimes could have ran it themselves imo and filled the field, letting more than half of the players pay same day without any fees or major issues.

Again why did CSI take over this tournament if they hate pro pool, lose money, take away from the tournament, and everything becomes a hassle?

Mark has ran this tourney since its' inception.

Before BCAPL and CSI, he ran it out of his pool halls in San Diego. He sold his pool halls in San Diego shortly after buying BCAPL and has held the tournament at a couple of different pool halls since.

It was held at hollywood billiards for several years until they closed down and since then he has held it at Hard Times.

Jaden

 

[cleary]

Late fees serve two purposes: 1) encourage people to register in a timely manner and 2) cover business disruption costs.

If there were no late fee or early entry discount (they are the same thing worded differently), about 90% of the field would wait until the last few days. It would be an unmanageable situation.

Significant planning must go into an event and when people register late, it causes disruption and additional costs. For example, suppose there were no late fee last weekend and we received 120 entries on Thursday and Friday. This would mean that other tasks would not get completed during those two days and perhaps a couple of our administrative folks would have to work on Saturday to catch up. This is a business disruption cost.

I play in tournaments all the time. I hand them money, they write my name down. It's a very simple process.

In a huge event like nationals, I would agree with everything you said. In a weekend tournament at a pool hall with the same players year after year... I totally disagree with the disruption and additional costs of someone handing you money and you writing their name down. Over complicating a pretty simple task.

 

[Jaden]

Yes and no...

I play in tournaments all the time. I hand them money, they write my name down. It's a very simple process.

In a huge event like nationals, I would agree with everything you said. In a weekend tournament at a pool hall with the same players year after year... I totally disagree with the disruption and additional costs of someone handing you money and you writing their name down. Over complicating a pretty simple task.

Saying this is a weekend tournament is kind of a misnomer...This is the biggest 2 day tournament in the US for sure and possibly the world.

This is the first year in at least 5 or 6 years that there hasn't been 192 players and it still had over 160 and I think the last year it was in San Diego there were 220+ players and since then they limited it to 192.

I agree there are some kinks, but I'm gonna give Mark the benefit of the doubt, especially considering this is the first one I'm aware of that he couldn't and didn't attend.

Jaden

 

[(((Satori)))]

Mark has ran this tourney since its' inception.

Before BCAPL and CSI, he ran it out of his pool halls in San Diego. He sold his pool halls in San Diego shortly after buying BCAPL and has held the tournament at a couple of different pool halls since.

It was held at hollywood billiards for several years until they closed down and since then he has held it at Hard Times.

Jaden

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[CSI - Ozzy]

Cluster

I play in tournaments all the time. I hand them money, they write my name down. It's a very simple process.

In a huge event like nationals, I would agree with everything you said. In a weekend tournament at a pool hall with the same players year after year... I totally disagree with the disruption and additional costs of someone handing you money and you writing their name down. Over complicating a pretty simple task.

For a smaller weekend tournament with 40-70 players with a stat time of 11 AM or noon, I agree. I have run nearly 100 of those types of events. This one can have 192 players and play must get started at 10 AM. Exactly how will you get 192 players (most of whom will simply walk in at the last possible moment) signed in, money collected, random draw completed, and matches underway by 10 AM? You won't...it would be a complete cluster and the tournament would be a disaster.

 

[dardusm]

As a player, I can look at the info and figure out if it's a tournament that I want to play. CSI and Hard Times are businesses. Business have to make money to survive.

Pool promoters though use the term "added" money as a marketing tool to get players. As a player, I just want to know entry and payout, I can figure out the rest. If they were to bill the tournament as, $90 entry including $25 green/registration fees with 4000 guaranteed added that's all the info I need to make an informed decision. I don't have an issue with the room or promoters making money, it's a business.

The other example I'll give is a well known tournament director charges $15 per player for running a tournament. I have no problem with playing in the events. The room adds money and gets it's green fee's from quarters. They do a professional job and work hard. But, they run other events across the state. It's the same format with one difference, the entry fee is less creating less prize money in the pool. I generally won't play in that one unless I just want the experience because it doesn't pay out as well, but I know that going in.

I just think the issue is disclosure. It's sounds better with added money vs. 100% or less payback from the total received.

 

[cleary]

For a smaller weekend tournament with 40-70 players with a stat time of 11 AM or noon, I agree. I have run nearly 100 of those types of events. This one can have 192 players and play must get started at 10 AM. Exactly how will you get 192 players (most of whom will simply walk in at the last possible moment) signed in, money collected, random draw completed, and matches underway by 10 AM? You won't...it would be a complete cluster and the tournament would be a disaster.

Which is why I agree you would like to get as many to prepay as possible... But collecting an entry the day before, the week before or 6 weeks before does not require more work or really any work at all. Take the money, write down a name.

Take it up a notch and pay via a website, money goes to an account, name automatically added to a list and you just saved your staff from slaving away the brutal task of counting money and writing down a name. Or possibly hardtimes is also taking cash entries as well for the locals. It's just not as complex as you make it sound and hard to justify the almost $1000 kept in late fees.

 

[azhousepro]

It doesn't matter that I feel that I could have done a better job.

In all fairness, I have never met a streamer who didn't feel they could have done a better job on every stream they didn't do.

 

[one stroke]

Which is why I agree you would like to get as many to prepay as possible... But collecting an entry the day before, the week before or 6 weeks before does not require more work or really any work at all. Take the money, write down a name.

Take it up a notch and pay via a website, money goes to an account, name automatically added to a list and you just saved your staff from slaving away the brutal task of counting money and writing down a name. Or possibly hardtimes is also taking cash entries as well for the locals. It's just not as complex as you make it sound and hard to justify the almost $1000 kept in late fees.

It's all about following the pea under the walnut shell

1

 

[Hidy Ho]

POST OF THE YEAR! Whoever you are, thank you and we will continue to do our very best.

If I was MG, I just don't see any upside of being involved with this tournament. I'd walk away while waving goodbye with my middle finger up.

 

[Sire380]

Aside from the payouts, which I won't even get into, I was very disappointed to learn that POV Pool would not be streaming the Swanee this year. Honestly it wasn't about the sixteen dollars or whatever it was to get the stream. I pay for the US open ever year and have paid for the Mosconi Cup in the past. I was running around all weekend and didnt have more than an hour or two on Saturday and Sunday to watch. So I wasn't about to spend money on a stream that I could not devote more than a couple of hours to. Last year I remember I was busy but I had the opportunity to check in and see a match or two without having to purchase the stream.

Also I would be lying if I didn't say that I felt a little taken advantage of by CSI considering the stream was free the last two or three years. I just don't know why they would switch it up if it worked fine with POV the last few years. Money issues I'm assuming. I understand that.

I simply appreciate what POV pool and Daniel have done these past couple of years and I honestly feel like the change in who streamed the event was unwarranted and unnecessary. I've always felt that TAR/CSI overvalued their content by overcharging for their matches. While I'm aware that Daniel doesn't make nothing, his content has for the most part has been free and a lot of the time the action is better than some of some of those TAR/CSI matches.

Now I'm not posting to bash CSI or Mark Griffin. I would just like to let Ozzy or whoever know how disappointed I was when I found out that POV wasn't streaming as per usual. BTW I know for a fact that I wasn't the only one. Free POV for the Hard Times 10 ball event!!!

 

[Worst_7_ever]

A buddy of mine just bought the local APA league & a league player came up to him and was asking about making "all these places" keep their tables in top condition (refelt, clean, etc) which are all reasonable things to want. But, he only plays out of places that will give him free pool on league day and, never eats or drinks anything. People are amazing, ones mere presence doesn't make an establishment any money. He won't spend a dime except buy 1 beer so he can get a free house round and now he has demands?!?! I understand not everyone has the money for several drinks and food, but understand then that your demands should (and will) fall on deaf ears. And you'll look like a real jerk.

This sounds just like a guy I used to play pool league with many years ago. He even earned his own saying - the scotty round http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20Scotty%20round

 

[The Renfro]

Aside from the payouts, which I won't even get into, I was very disappointed to learn that POV Pool would not be streaming the Swanee this year. Honestly it wasn't about the sixteen dollars or whatever it was to get the stream. I pay for the US open ever year and have paid for the Mosconi Cup in the past. I was running around all weekend and didnt have more than an hour or two on Saturday and Sunday to watch. So I wasn't about to spend money on a stream that I could not devote more than a couple of hours to. Last year I remember I was busy but I had the opportunity to check in and see a match or two without having to purchase the stream.

Also I would be lying if I didn't say that I felt a little taken advantage of by CSI considering the stream was free the last two or three years. I just don't know why they would switch it up if it worked fine with POV the last few years. Money issues I'm assuming. I understand that.

I simply appreciate what POV pool and Daniel have done these past couple of years and I honestly feel like the change in who streamed the event was unwarranted and unnecessary. I've always felt that TAR/CSI overvalued their content by overcharging for their matches. While I'm aware that Daniel doesn't make nothing, his content has for the most part has been free and a lot of the time the action is better than some of some of those TAR/CSI matches.

Now I'm not posting to bash CSI or Mark Griffin. I would just like to let Ozzy or whoever know how disappointed I was when I found out that POV wasn't streaming as per usual. BTW I know for a fact that I wasn't the only one. Free POV for the Hard Times 10 ball event!!!

Nice post... aside from the obvious points where you stray from facts... You paid for Mosconi Cup coverage? Daniel is ahead of TVMike and Behind bigtruck.... Truck may be passing JCIN soon but not yet... Would love to see a parse of ip adddeys on anyof the threadsa bout streams... POV shot his wad on the SWANNEE payout thread as far as I am concerned.. I'd say Mark lets him have it if he can even attempt to add 3499.00....

 

[(((Satori)))]

Nice post... aside from the obvious points where you stray from facts... You paid for Mosconi Cup coverage? Daniel is ahead of TVMike and Behind bigtruck.... Truck may be passing JCIN soon but not yet... Would love to see a parse of ip adddeys on anyof the threadsa bout streams... POV shot his wad on the SWANNEE payout thread as far as I am concerned.. I'd say Mark lets him have it if he can even attempt to add 3499.00....

Who couldnt add money if they take it out of the entry fee?

 

[The Renfro]

Who couldnt add money if they take it out of the entry fee?

Good point... 2016 Swanee promoted by Satori... 4k added... get to stepping..

 

[Sire380]

Nice post... aside from the obvious points where you stray from facts... You paid for Mosconi Cup coverage? Daniel is ahead of TVMike and Behind bigtruck.... Truck may be passing JCIN soon but not yet... Would love to see a parse of ip adddeys on anyof the threadsa bout streams... POV shot his wad on the SWANNEE payout thread as far as I am concerned.. I'd say Mark lets him have it if he can even attempt to add 3499.00....

Just where did I stray from the facts? Yeah I paid for the Mosconi cup years ago before they started airing it on ESPN 3. And I pay every year to watch the US Open. Fact. How is that disputable? Do you want a copy of my bank statement? Aside from that irrelevant question everything else mentioned in my post was my opinion.

Does CSI really think that people should pay for a stream that they got last year for free because of commentary from Jay Helfert and a few others? He was sitting in last year anyway for the last couple of matches. And on top of that the stream quality wasn't even up to par. I'm sorry but I gotta call it like I see it.

 

[cardiac kid]

Seems to me there are multiple businesses running concurrently at the Hardtimes Swanee event. The promoters, the tournament director, the pool room, the streamer and the players. Which one does not deserve to make a profit from their efforts?

Having said that, certainly agree with the posters who urge full disclosure in advance of the event. Sometimes the tables turn. One participant in this thread suggested another promoter was less than forthcoming when he failed to disclose (in advance) a significant portion of the event "added money" went to paying for the tables and lights brought in to play the event on. Obviously not a problem in this event but..... there were significant promoter expenses not mentioned in the Swanee event flyer covered by the entry fee. Which promoter was being completely truthfull? None of the above!

Each of us has a viewpoint in which our needs come first. As we are all human and not one of us is perfect, we all fail some of the time. As others have asked on this thread, who doesn't want a Swanee in 2016? Come on, step up and make your feelings known.

Lyn

 

[cleary]

I'd say Mark lets him have it if he can even attempt to add 3499.00....

Considering they collected $3500 in registration fees and $1000 in late fees, added money is a breeze.

And I'm not saying CSI robbed anyone or anyone made any money, I just think considering the size of the field vs the payouts, the tournament would be much better ran by a local guy or not at all. Just my opinion and that's not worth much more than a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Nothing wrong with people making money as long as numbers for entries, green fees, reg fees, late fees and added money are all out in the open. I am sure it was profitable for the room and I would think CSI, it was PPV stream also correct?