Taper Roll???

BarenbruggeCues said:
Shafts and/or butts............
I believe I remember this phrase surfacing around a certain type of non conical taper used on the butt. Some of the explanations were actually kind of humorous.
ie...."turns perfect between centers but has a slight taper roll when rolled on a table"?

So if it doesn't turn perfect between centers?........OH,....that's just a little taper roll left over from when I rolled on the table!

I don't know........to me... they either roll straight or crooked....if it's not straight, you can call it what ever you want....BUT IT"S STILL NOT STRAIGHT!

Every cuemaker dead or alive that has ever built a cue has or will experience this at some point of their building them. It's just the nature of trying to keep some long, thin wood straight.


<~~~going to grind some beans from Zimbabwe and make another pot of coffee...............
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I'm sorry, but I totally agree with Dave, on this. If the customer rolls a Q on a table in front of 3 others, they will all say you have made a Q that is NOT straight. Furthermore The gibberish under that picture from Discount Qs makes no sence at all, to me. And as for the special spinning machine, he is using, it looks about as scientific, as rolling it on the table...JER
 
straight

WilleeCue said:
Exactly Right!

If you sight down a cue like a rifle and it looks bent, it is.
If it dont look bent, it is straight enough it wont effect your play.
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Exactly!!!!

Larry
 
billiardshot said:
Have other cuemakers or retail store use a specially designed cue spinning device checks each and every cue for true straightness? That is use by Mike at Discount pool cues.

Scroll to near bottom of page to see picture and explain why he use the cue spinning device.

http://www.discountpoolcues.com/pool cues.htm
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I can understand (kind of) why he would use something like this to check his cues. But if he finds one that has a little movement...whats that solve? It would be like having a lathe with no chuck, tool post or cutting tools.........
I re-read his explanation for using this device at least 10 times and still didn't understand exactly what he was trying to say?
quote...." The main reason that this is better is because a cue can have a slight difference in the taper around a 360 deg axis at the end of the taper where the thinner portion of the shaft meets the beginning of the increase in size as you get closer to the joint." unquote......
I'll be the first to admit, my reading comprehension is challenged at times but that doesn't make any sense at all to me.
 
Taper

At first I thought he was talking about the shaft being egg shaped instead of perfectly round, but I don't know.

It reminds me of that scene on Billy Madison when Adam Sandler gives that huge scientific answer to that question and the guy tells him...

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. "
 
i hate when ppl roll a cue on the table and say its crooked. quick story i went tot the pool rom and they just got a shipment of cues in. they were all laying on the table. the owner was on the phone yelling abiout his cues being warped. so i ask what was wrong and he said i got these new cues in and all are warped. then he proceeded to roll them on the table for me. i looked at the cues looked at the table and saw a loooong line across the table where the slate was so uneven at the seem it marked the cloth. i said the table is warped not the cues :D :D :D

moral of the story

10 different tables = 10 different rolls

rail or lathe only
 
If the customer is going to test the straightness of my Qs by rolling them on a table, then they should pass that test, before they leave my shop...JER
 
Craig Fales said:
Blaming the wrap is the same as "taper roll". If it's warped it warped, meaning both are myths...
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You've never seen electrical tape under the linen wrap?
I know one guy who sued his maker when he found out.
 
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JoeyInCali said:
You've never seen electrical tape under the linen wrap?
I know one guy who sued his maker when he found out.
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LOLz...I suppose in that case it could be a problem...

BarenbruggeCues said:
I can understand (kind of) why he would use something like this to check his cues. But if he finds one that has a little movement...whats that solve? It would be like having a lathe with no chuck, tool post or cutting tools.........
I re-read his explanation for using this device at least 10 times and still didn't understand exactly what he was trying to say?
quote...." The main reason that this is better is because a cue can have a slight difference in the taper around a 360 deg axis at the end of the taper where the thinner portion of the shaft meets the beginning of the increase in size as you get closer to the joint." unquote......
I'll be the first to admit, my reading comprehension is challenged at times but that doesn't make any sense at all to me.
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That left me confuzzled too...:confused:
 
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BarenbruggeCues said:
taper roll = story made up by someone trying to sell something that is less-salable than a straight cue.
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You got it.......taper roll = hogwash = slight warp
 
RocketQ said:
Scratching my head wondering why someone would want to spin a finished cue 2500 rpm put together. :eek: :confused: If it's off a hair it is gonna flex and wobble like a sonnabatch.
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No $hit, from what I say in the photo the gentleman was holding the with his fingers while it was spinning. At 2500 RPM the poor is going to get his fingers burned. Not to mention the fact that by doing things in this manner can not achieve repeatable results.

Fixed centers and dial indicator is the only method in my opinion that should have repeatable results. No device held by hand is realistic, and while the gentleman obviously think his system is effective, I doubt many would consider using anything like it.
 
Spinner

manwon said:
No $hit, from what I say in the photo the gentleman was holding the with his fingers while it was spinning. At 2500 RPM the poor is going to get his fingers burned. Not to mention the fact that by doing things in this manner can not achieve repeatable results.

Fixed centers and dial indicator is the only method in my opinion that should have repeatable results. No device held by hand is realistic, and while the gentleman obviously think his system is effective, I doubt many would consider using anything like it.
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That thing looks like a good way to have a cue fly across the room and turn to toothpicks.
 
Blaming the wrap is the same as "taper roll". If it's warped it warped, meaning both are myths...
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i have seen leather and skin wraps make the cue appear warped when it was rolled across the table and in fact it was the wrap causing the problem.if someone puts a wrap on one of your cues after it leaves your shop and the wrap is put on wrong and it makes your cue roll with a wobble,but it spins true between centers,is it still warped?
 
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If there is light under the shaft when rolled by it self on the table that is fine, as long as it is always the same height from the table. That is my definition of "taper roll". Some unscruplous sellers have tried to misuse the term to hide a slight warp, or worse. They are two completely different things and the terms are NOT interchangable!!!
 
i hate when ppl roll a cue on the table and say its crooked. quick story i went tot the pool rom and they just got a shipment of cues in. they were all laying on the table. the owner was on the phone yelling abiout his cues being warped. so i ask what was wrong and he said i got these new cues in and all are warped. then he proceeded to roll them on the table for me. i looked at the cues looked at the table and saw a loooong line across the table where the slate was so uneven at the seem it marked the cloth. i said the table is warped not the cues
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same thing happened to me.i was playing one pocket on a 9' Diamond and i rolled my Lambros just for the heck of it and it wobbled pretty bad.the cue was new and i was pissed.i couldn't believe it.then i reached for another cue in my case,and same story it wobbled terribly.then i noticed a faint line going across teh table,and it turns out the slate was split there,and no cue in the world would roll straight.ever since then i am leary of rolling them on the table.

If there is light under the shaft when rolled by it self on the table that is fine, as long as it is always the same height from the table. That is my definition of "taper roll".
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that is what i always thought taper roll was too,and there are plenty of shafts out there with the "myth" of taper roll.
 
masonh said:
i have seen leather and skin wraps make the cue appear warped when it was rolled across the table and in fact it was the wrap causing the problem.if someone puts a wrap on one of your cues after it leaves your shop and the wrap is put on wrong and it makes your cue roll with a wobble,but it spins true between centers,is it still warped?
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I'm using the hypothetical situation where the wrap was done correctly and/or not a knobby style like say ostrich where I've seen some rather pronounced bumps...
 
haha

man won said:
No $hit, from what I say in the photo the gentleman was holding the with his fingers while it was spinning. At 2500 RPM the poor is going to get his fingers burned. Not to mention the fact that by doing things in this manner can not achieve repeatable results.

Fixed centers and dial indicator is the only method in my opinion that should have repeatable results. No device held by hand is realistic, and while the gentleman obviously think his system is effective, I doubt many would consider using anything like it.
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Everyone is a genius in their own mind... Ignorance is bliss.....:eek:
 
> Being a somewhat skilled and highly anal machinist student,I would even question that guy's 2500 RPM spinner to see how much runout it has :shrug:.

Spinning an assembled cue at 2500 without a live center to support it is asking for an expensive mistake,all in the name of science :killingme:.

I may not be right here,but I don't think you can get truly accurate results even with using a typical AGD dial indicator.

Sure,resolution within .001 may be good enough for testing in front of a customer,but my Interapid test indicators have .0001 resolution. I use them for anything that truly matters to me (everything at school) unless it requires more than .030 worth of travel.

There used to be a company called Alpha International that marketed a device for measuring this phenomena that resembled a wood lathe,but with precision centers at both ends,and an indicator base that slid back and forth on a Thompson glide-rod so you could "tram" it from the joint to the butt and everywhere in between. It reminded me of a test center we have in our metrology room at school. Tommy D.
 
Tommy-D said:
There used to be a company called Alpha International that marketed a device for measuring this phenomena that resembled a wood lathe,but with precision centers at both ends,and an indicator base that slid back and forth on a Thompson glide-rod so you could "tram" it from the joint to the butt and everywhere in between. It reminded me of a test center we have in our metrology room at school. Tommy D.[/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/B]
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Gotta find me one of those.............
 
I'm Gonna Get Flamed For This..... Taper Roll, Is When The Shaft Is Straight, But Has Been Finish Tapered By Hand, Or Hand Tapered Through The Years Of Cleaning/sanding. The Shaft Will Spin True In A Lathe, But Because Of Different Pressures At Different Points On The Shaft During Hand Sanding, There Are High/low Spots That Can Be Seen When The Shaft Is Rolled On The Table. But When The Shaft Is Rolled Elevated On The Roll, The Tip Doesn't Move, And When Spun In A Lathe It Is Straight.

Just Because The Light Under A Shaft Varies A Little, Doesn't Mean The Shaft Isn't Straight.

For Example..... A Cuemaker Finishes A "perfect" Shaft, A Player Choose To "clean" The Shaft With Fine Sandpaper, But Applies More Pressure To One Side Of The Shaft, Than He Does To The Other. Causing A Low Spot. If You Were To Roll It On A Table, The Light Under It Would Vary, But If Spun In A Lathe The Tip Still Wouldn't Wobble, Hence The Shaft Is Straight, But Shows A Taper Variance. This Taper Variance Is What I Call Taper Roll. I Would Say Taper Variance But Most People Would Just Look At Me All Confused.

To Me That Is The Proper Way To Use The Term "taper Roll", Although I Have Seen It Used By Unscrupulous Charachters To Describe A Warped Cue.
 
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