TAR 28: Deuel vs Schmidt All Around July 13-15
- Thread starter JCIN
- Start date
Interesting cuz I was thinking 8 Ball being a pattern game like straight pool, would favor John.
Still waiting to here the start times each day.
lol With John it's funny because I feel like I forget how good he actually is because you rarely see him playing, thats a very valid point. I really like corey's all around game though, I feel like he is just gonna play such proper 8 ball, don't ask me why I just really imagine his 8 ball game is unreal. You could be right though.
Well, you might very well be right. First off there are several vids on the internet of Corey running well north of 100 in 14.1 so he's no slouch. And 8 Ball, even though a pattern game, is nowhere near straight pool in its complexity and nuance. But John's 14.1 pattern play is superior to just about anyone.
Let's just face it, 8 Ball played by experts is a run out game. This makes the break that much more important, and we don't get to see top players hard break full rack games very often so I think that's somewhat an intriguing unknown. And it's not just about squatting whitey and making a ball or two, but getting the ability to choose your suit, which can be a big advantage. That aspect will be interesting. I have no stats to back it up but I'd guess group choice is a huge factor at the professional level.
Justin, will the 8 Ball leg be winner break?
One thing is for sure. We won't see much of what league bangers like me do all the time - run to the last ball or two and crap out with not eough pieces left on the board to provide cover and blocking.
:wink:
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i dedicated a whole thread to how excited i am for this match. no response, but for everybody whining about the state of pool in america, tell me you can't get behind a match with these 2 true competitors. seeing as they both live in florida, i'm sure they've played recently and i'm sure they've had it out on the golf course, but how fun will it be watching them play all the games on a tough diamond. but to reiterate, if anybody wants action i got corey for the 8 ball and 10 ball...
Each day will start at 7 PM Eastern/4 PM Pacific
All sets are winner breaks and the eight ball is take what you make after the break. I was going to have it be open after the break but Corey suggested that would be too easy so we'll try it this way.
As in the recent past each days play will run on a loop until 5 PM Eastern the next day so people who cant see it live have a chance to watch.
I don't really think it was a move so much. I have seen pro's play it both way's and I agree with him that open after the break can turn it into a run out fest. My reason for suggesting the open after the break is that the cloth on our table is broken in now and with the tight pockets it plays pretty tough.
Corey hasn't played on this track yet so if it was a move he may not like how it turns out.
Honestly I think these guys play pretty even so I don't see it being a big deal either way. Thats one of the cool things about these matches to me, we get to see what really happens when two pro's try something a certain way.
While I think take what you make introduces a slightly larger luck element I think both of these players are knowledgeable and skilled enough to overcome it. It should be pretty interesting.
Interesting, a TAR event being played by bar banger rules for group choice after the break. Also interesting that the One Hole segment is also winner break. Little advantage, if any, having the break in 8 Ball (and maybe a disadvantage), but a big advantage being able to keep the break in One Hole.
As to the suit choice rule for 8 Ball, in a way that puts the breaker at a disadvantage. If he makes one ball or balls of one suit, he is stuck with that suit even if he is hooked or it is the clearly inferior group. But if he breaks dry, the table is open for his opponent.
Just to clarify, if the breaker makes one solid and two stripes, is the table open or does he have to take stripes?
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Take what you make is a bar rule that adds a huge amount of luck into the game. Pool does not need more luck, it needs less. This is a terrible idea, it is going to actually help Corey if he decides to start soft breaking and get away from runout 8-ball and make it into a positioning game.
Proper open off the break rules for 8-ball encourage the power break and on that TAR table the difficulty in 8-ball WILL be there. Corey might want to check that table out, there will be some runouts but I guarentee there will be some tough chippy games as well.
Please just use the BCAPL rules for 8-ball. They are time tested and honed rules that have become pretty much perfect for top end competition.
If it is take waht you make I just lost alot of my excitement over finally seeing a TAR 8-ball match. Why the hell would you do this to 8-ball the first time ever showing it...
Proper open off the break rules for 8-ball encourage the power break and on that TAR table the difficulty in 8-ball WILL be there. Corey might want to check that table out, there will be some runouts but I guarentee there will be some tough chippy games as well.
Please just use the BCAPL rules for 8-ball. They are time tested and honed rules that have become pretty much perfect for top end competition.
If it is take waht you make I just lost alot of my excitement over finally seeing a TAR 8-ball match. Why the hell would you do this to 8-ball the first time ever showing it...
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Nope. Slept that one. Traditional alternate on that one.
An interesting source for 8 ball stats is the IPT website. They kept track of win/loss and break & run stats, also 8 on the break. Players had 200+ games so the stats should be reasonably accurate.
John
146 W 137 L (51.59%)
B&R %* = 12.37%
% of wins by B&R: 23.97%
Corey
301 W 249 L (54.73%)
B&R %* = 17.27%
% of wins by B&R: 31.56%
*(this includes games where the player didn't break. So obviously it'd be higher if the player broke every time, or if they counted rack'n'runs)
On paper, corey should have 8 ball, but it's not a long race, and these stats are a few years old. So who know?
John
146 W 137 L (51.59%)
B&R %* = 12.37%
% of wins by B&R: 23.97%
Corey
301 W 249 L (54.73%)
B&R %* = 17.27%
% of wins by B&R: 31.56%
*(this includes games where the player didn't break. So obviously it'd be higher if the player broke every time, or if they counted rack'n'runs)
On paper, corey should have 8 ball, but it's not a long race, and these stats are a few years old. So who know?
Those are cool stats, one would have thought the % of wins by B&R would have been higher. John had a winning percentage but he only won 23.97% of his games via B&R, which means in the other 76.03% of the games his opponent was at the table at least once. Corey is only at 31.56%.
Most of the "wins" were not the result of a B&R in the IPT. And the IPT had far larger pockets then the TAR table, albeit the IPT used slower cloth that added difficulty there. I think if TAR goes with open after the break we will see less then 50% of the wins come from B&R's, in fact that is a prop bet I will bet on.
This may go down as one of the most interestingly viewable TAR's yet...
Compliments on the format. The all around with each day being a different game is pretty cool. And if I want to buy just one day, I am still getting a "complete match". It's also good that each match pays the winner and the loser. The last match is worth-while no matter what happened earlier.
TAR 28 pre-match podcast was great. Lots of discussion. Having the players shoot around during this was great. They felt very comfortible and the focus was mostly on them, not too much of the interviewer interjecting his opinions. Nice hour and a half. glad I watched. Since Justin asked some questions it would be good to also be "miked".
I haven't seen the TAR matches before, so I don't know all the ins and outs. Can I still buy the 8-ball match at this point?
TAR 28 pre-match podcast was great. Lots of discussion. Having the players shoot around during this was great. They felt very comfortible and the focus was mostly on them, not too much of the interviewer interjecting his opinions. Nice hour and a half. glad I watched. Since Justin asked some questions it would be good to also be "miked".
I haven't seen the TAR matches before, so I don't know all the ins and outs. Can I still buy the 8-ball match at this point?