I have misread the quoted material and LGSM3 has been reinstated.
He owes Carguy for his determination in this matter.
Dave
He owes Carguy for his determination in this matter.
Dave
Thank you Atlas Billiards!!!!!!
- Thread starter scdiveteam
- Start date
always like to read your input,thnx chris. i'd have to agree and by the way this thread turned ugly, i'm glad i do old style butterflies. no worries about patents, copyrights, claims of inventing splicing(been around 300yrs or better). all i have to do is make sure i do the darn thing RIGHT.
Thank you guys for all the kind words and support. I don't even know some of you guys who spoke up for me, pretty cool. Gotten a million texts, emails and phone calls.
Thanks Tony, for not letting me look like a raving lunatic who was just here to start a fire.
I'll admit that my approach to the situation was shallow and most certainly should have been taken up privately.
I felt betrayed when i saw the pictures, mostly because i like to think this is my trademark look. "as Dave38 pointed out in an earlier post"
I'm the guy who used to feel like Kim, in that all has been done and not really unique. That all changed after i had created a few unique designs that i'm proud of. Im only aware of one guy who has done something similar and before me but i had no exposure to it until after mine were done. They are still different enough that i dont think they should be mistaken but thats just my opinion.
The inspiration for the ring was from a screw up on the mill where the fixture was not parrallel to the axis.
One last thought....I'll agree that its totally possible that Rick saw nothing wrong with borrowing the design, and thats why he posted such obvious pictures in not thinking it was a big deal....I can understand that because i used to be that guy.
Thanks Tony, for not letting me look like a raving lunatic who was just here to start a fire.
I'll admit that my approach to the situation was shallow and most certainly should have been taken up privately.
I felt betrayed when i saw the pictures, mostly because i like to think this is my trademark look. "as Dave38 pointed out in an earlier post"
I'm the guy who used to feel like Kim, in that all has been done and not really unique. That all changed after i had created a few unique designs that i'm proud of. Im only aware of one guy who has done something similar and before me but i had no exposure to it until after mine were done. They are still different enough that i dont think they should be mistaken but thats just my opinion.
The inspiration for the ring was from a screw up on the mill where the fixture was not parrallel to the axis.
One last thought....I'll agree that its totally possible that Rick saw nothing wrong with borrowing the design, and thats why he posted such obvious pictures in not thinking it was a big deal....I can understand that because i used to be that guy.
Jake-
I think you are a very gracious follow even while being attacked. I'm afraid I would not do nearly as well at keeping my cool.
You certainly have nothing to apologize for that I noticed.
Your work looks great and I look forward to your future contributions to the forum.
Robin Snyder
I think you are a very gracious follow even while being attacked. I'm afraid I would not do nearly as well at keeping my cool.
You certainly have nothing to apologize for that I noticed.
Your work looks great and I look forward to your future contributions to the forum.
Robin Snyder
Last edited:
or just maybe your totally wrong like tony and maybe rick was mentored by stew who did this 30 yeras ago........he just put a 45 angle on the ring he was already using open your eyes and look at his photos without your anger......you act like doing that was somthing that is impossibe to understand......if you think you own 45 angle you need some help......
you guys think you and blast someone and act like you know whats in the mind..... then pass some judgement.... a sin the way i see it.....can you walk on water too....you cues are very cool but you ego and attitude is not....... it is selfish and one way looking......
ricks cues and rings are very simple and classic lokking and your cues are very modern looking a you rings are very itricate.......no one will ever mistake his cues for yours.......there not even close......
Last edited:
I would agree that its not so complicated an idea, and atleast a handful of cm's could stumble upon the same thing. I dont think im picasso.
What, initially frustrated me is the memory of Rick walking around the show taking pictures of the cues.
Your right, i dont own anything, but i'll not lye down when i feel like i'm getting robbed. I think more CM's should do the same
One of my friends is a very creative cuemaker who lives close. As much as I love to see his work, I would feel badly if I came up with something close to what he does. If I have never seen it, then I wouldn't feel guilty..
My favorite rings are Ariel's btw... they are by far the best I have ever seen..
There are people that work very hard at this craft to be unique. They come up with a look all to their own. They become known for it.
Then someone takes that from them.
Be unique. Be creative. Do not chose a path less traveled but chose a new path altogether.
I understand that. Every cue builder tries to build cues that are recognizable. Some things are sacred.... l do agree. But doesn't every cue actually have something that another cue builder did first?
It is a some what of a grey area sometimes.
I do think copycats should be approached on a private level to see if the problem can be resolved with out an attack. I believe most people would come to an agreement.
Kim
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
It is a some what of a grey area sometimes.
I do think copycats should be approached on a private level to see if the problem can be resolved with out an attack. I believe most people would come to an agreement.
Kim
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
I'll have to disagree on this as well. Had Jake opted to confront this matter privately, how would everyone else know what happened? The thread would still be here with the implication that the ring work is Rick's unique design. Look at the comment prior to Tony's pics. Now, look at the comments after...
<~~I'm not taking sides but rather using the above as an example.
Welcome back Jake!!!! :woot:
Everyone didn't need to know what happened. How many people here actually knew about jakes rings?
We won't know what would have happened now.
I have never seen jakes rings before this post.
How would we know a cue builders own cue characteristic lf he never shows it.
I am not bashing anyone or defending anyone..... just saying.
Kim
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
We won't know what would have happened now.
I have never seen jakes rings before this post.
How would we know a cue builders own cue characteristic lf he never shows it.
I am not bashing anyone or defending anyone..... just saying.
Kim
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
Just because something isn't posted on AZ doesn't mean they do not exist.
You can do what every other profession does and research it. How hard would it be to come on AZ, for example, and ask; "Hey I have an idea for this new-to-me ring idea. Has anyone seen it used before?"
You can do what every other profession does and research it. How hard would it be to come on AZ, for example, and ask; "Hey I have an idea for this new-to-me ring idea. Has anyone seen it used before?"
Unfortunatly, some people will even copy your idea just by you asking if anyone has seen it used. We have seen that here before. It's a very tough thing to come up with an idea/design and show it without someone copying it right off the bat nowadays. Putting in the effort to design a one-of trademark, etc. then having it copied almost in front of you really sucks. I have read some articles recently that the patent laws have recently been changed, and it is now harder for the simple man to get a patent without some corporate backing. If true, the one man inventions are doomed.
Dave
Exactly! So why is it ok to copy without asking?
RBC
Deceased
If you step back and take a look at the laws that govern these types of things, you can get a feel for what the intended controls and outcomes would be.
By my interpretation, they fall into a couple of different categories.
The first category is really about functional changes, improvements, processes or creations. This category would fall under utility patents. These things don't have to provide a certain function, but they can. They can be just a different process to create something different. Utility patents were originally created to get ideas out in the public domain so that everyone can use them. The inventor gets many years of exclusive use, but after that the idea becomes part of the public domain and is open to anyone.
The second is really more about a person's or companie's signature or mark. These marks would fall under the area of trademarks. Trademarks remain the property of the originator for as long as he is using it. The signature image of the trademark comes to be recognized as the originators mark or signature. Like the Nike swoosh.
In pool cues we actually have both, but seldom see anyone go through the legal process of getting a patent or trademark etc. We have structural or functional things in cues, like 4 points or hoppe rings. Both would be things that could have been patented. If the inventor chose to do so, then he should have the exclusive right to use it for a period of time. If he didn't, or the time of his patent has elapsed, then it's really public domain. We also have aesthetic things. These would include not only logo's but anything that a particular maker becomes known for. Like Eric Crisp's unique use of the common butterfly to create his signature scallops. Or, in this case, Jake's slanted rings. Things like this are the maker's mark. They should be respected as such and don't really have a time limit.
I really have 2 requests for all of us, myself included.
First, we should all strive to protect what we value as our property. Trademarks are really easy and cheap. Even Design Patents (different than utility patents) are not out of reason for a unique look. Utility patents are expensive, but if your idea is valuable, you should protect it with a patent.
The second, but certainly the most important of the two requests, is that we should all strive to respect each others creations. If someone creates a unique functional change, improvement, process or creation, we should acknowledge it. If they choose to keep it to themselves we should respect that. If they don't, it should be open to anyone to use. If someone creates something that becomes his mark or signature, we should always respect that. There's no grace period here. If the pool educated public looks at it and perceives that it was made by XYZ cues because of the signature element used, then it should only be used by XYZ cues. There is no time limit on this. It will always be recognized as XYZ cues.
I know that I can't make anyone else follow me on this, but I can ask us all to hold ourselves to a high standard. Don't use someone else's mark or property.
Sorry for the long post, but this is becoming far too common. There's no easy answer except for each and everyone of us to step up and do the right thing.
By my interpretation, they fall into a couple of different categories.
The first category is really about functional changes, improvements, processes or creations. This category would fall under utility patents. These things don't have to provide a certain function, but they can. They can be just a different process to create something different. Utility patents were originally created to get ideas out in the public domain so that everyone can use them. The inventor gets many years of exclusive use, but after that the idea becomes part of the public domain and is open to anyone.
The second is really more about a person's or companie's signature or mark. These marks would fall under the area of trademarks. Trademarks remain the property of the originator for as long as he is using it. The signature image of the trademark comes to be recognized as the originators mark or signature. Like the Nike swoosh.
In pool cues we actually have both, but seldom see anyone go through the legal process of getting a patent or trademark etc. We have structural or functional things in cues, like 4 points or hoppe rings. Both would be things that could have been patented. If the inventor chose to do so, then he should have the exclusive right to use it for a period of time. If he didn't, or the time of his patent has elapsed, then it's really public domain. We also have aesthetic things. These would include not only logo's but anything that a particular maker becomes known for. Like Eric Crisp's unique use of the common butterfly to create his signature scallops. Or, in this case, Jake's slanted rings. Things like this are the maker's mark. They should be respected as such and don't really have a time limit.
I really have 2 requests for all of us, myself included.
First, we should all strive to protect what we value as our property. Trademarks are really easy and cheap. Even Design Patents (different than utility patents) are not out of reason for a unique look. Utility patents are expensive, but if your idea is valuable, you should protect it with a patent.
The second, but certainly the most important of the two requests, is that we should all strive to respect each others creations. If someone creates a unique functional change, improvement, process or creation, we should acknowledge it. If they choose to keep it to themselves we should respect that. If they don't, it should be open to anyone to use. If someone creates something that becomes his mark or signature, we should always respect that. There's no grace period here. If the pool educated public looks at it and perceives that it was made by XYZ cues because of the signature element used, then it should only be used by XYZ cues. There is no time limit on this. It will always be recognized as XYZ cues.
I know that I can't make anyone else follow me on this, but I can ask us all to hold ourselves to a high standard. Don't use someone else's mark or property.
Sorry for the long post, but this is becoming far too common. There's no easy answer except for each and everyone of us to step up and do the right thing.
Apply for a patent...see where it gets you.
It got people like Preditor and Unilock pretty far.
Just a Patent Applied for on things can greatly make a person think of breaking it for the first time as it could bite them in the leg for everything they have in the future.
Seeking no kind of protection at all looks as if you don't see worth.
How many LD shafts and quick release pins are there now?
How good are those patents now?