The Best Cue Case Period

Let's be real for a second ,

You can not survive without import products , period.

There are no non import included cars , USA based (Ford,Chevy, Etc) or not. Non import included homes. Not a closet without import included clothing or fabrics , home electronics . . . puh leaze , any one here watch a non import TV , Have a cell phone ? It's an endless list in eery aspect of life.

Or is it just China we hate ? :confused:




classiccues said:
You missed the point.. you cannot cry foul for an import case and still buy foreign. Regardless of the country. I bet that a good percentage of the same people that could cry foul also shoot with predators, have a moori tip, use a cue glove, drive a Hyundai, buy BP or Lukeoil gas. There is NO gray area, I mean if you're going to walk the walk, then talk the talk. Like the cocobolo cowboy who goes to Mexico for cheaper medicine, he cannot cry foul. The person that went to Canada for Lasik because at one time it was 800.00 for both eyes while it was 2500 here, can't cry foul.
People don't realize that from their feet to the top of their pointy heads, they are imported. Shoes, clothes, hats. it all comes from somewhere, most times out of the country.
Jay collects cues that whether he likes it or not, had helped put people out of business. Helmstetter didn't go to Japan because the labor was the same, and the climate equal. It was CHEAPER than setting up shop in the US.

JV
 
smashmouth said:
John, the demand everyone is referring to for higher priced leather cases is from the AMERICAN manufacturers

your product is not the same, it is comparable but not the same

this is what we're all discussing here and the point you're either missing or just playing with us, i suspect you realize this

I'll probably buy one though if the options are there, I like semi-custom objects that give you lots of options without the wait of full customs

There is always a demand for fine things. A GTF case will soon be in the hands of the Prince of Brunei. His buyer was not concerned with where the case was made - didn't ask, only appreciated the work.

The demand is for fine cases. Those that truly care about quality care nothing for where that quality comes from.

But in the end I don't really care. The people who commissioned these cases are those who already own the finest cues and cases made in the world. If those people do not know their market then it's their problem not mine. They own cues worth more than my car.

Apparently there is a little more demand for these cases than some would think though as they have presold well over 200 cases based on the preview cases that they sent to well respected collectors and cue makers.

My problem was to deliver the case that met their expectations. I feel that I did that and more.

Yesterday I decided to go play pool. I went to the pool room here in China and played the house pro. On the table next to me was a pair of players who had decent cues and one of them had an Instroke tooled case. As I finished playing I packed my cue into my 1x2 GTF black nappa case. One of the players on the adjacent table came over specifically to ask how much the case was and look at it. I told him $300 US and he nodded appreciatively.

Throughout everything that has been said over all the years about who I am and what I do, and all the uwarranted hate, this was the moment for me that made it all worthwhile.

This guy didn't care who I was or what I did for a living. He only appreciated and recognized something I made for it's quality.

That's all the market I will ever need.
 
RRfireblade said:
Let's be real for a second ,

You can not survive without import products , period.

Well put, and to drive that point home a bit more if the computer you are using to view these posts were made 100% in America it would cost as much as a new car.
 
Absolutely Right!

CC,

You are absolutely right, China is much the same as roughly 1980 Japan. Japan's government assisted it's industry in focused targeting of one area after another of US industry with illegal supports and price dumping to destroy that sector of US industry and then they systematically moved on to the next target. Japanese society saw no difference between business and war which pretty much says it all since someone our age knows how they conducted war. Now China is indeed following in their footsteps with government and industry often merged together and even after making products dirt cheap with slave and near slave labor dumping it on the marketplace at below even that cost. I am quite sure that China deliberately followed Japan's successful model.

As an aside to the other poster that thinks Japan instantly became a "good guy" after WWII, far from it. The major differences between Japan and Germany are that Japan still denies many of their atrocities or refuses to apologize for them and many Japanese still believe that they are the master race.

Hu


CocoboloCowboy said:
I remember when I was a kid in the 50?s getting all this CHEAP Stuff (Toys) labeled ?MADE IN JAPAN?. It was a joke,?MADE IN JAPAN?, NO MORE Well the JAPS are kicking are asses again. Camera?s Automobiles, Televisions, DVD?s Machines, Bicycles, Motorcycles etc.
angeryonfire.gif


Think China is Japan circa 1980, and closing FAST.
angeryonfire.gif
 
smokey said:
From this thread:


JCIN; you said to me:

But.

A dude THREATENS HIS LIFE and everything is cool.

Am I missing something here? Since when are threats of bodily harm over a $50 cue deal allowed? That is ridiculous in the extreme. I know which of the 2 concerns me more, and it ain't the guy who sends a nicked up shaft. It is the self appointed AZ executioner who will have his "people" make sure a guy "never returns" from Vegas because of something he read on a message board.

Smokey my friend you are so far out of line it is stunning. What on earth makes you think this community needs you to issue death sentences on fraudulent cue dealers? Everybody hates bad deals, but good lord, are you serious?

The threat of "never return" is just stupid. I hope you never have someone unsatisfied with a deal and have some random guy threaten your life.

Unbelievable.

JCIN, (talking about me), isn't that exactly how you based something on a post (sound bite) where you thought you gained enough information to make a determination?? All based on what? A post??

This is just typical life, not only for JCIN. Just to make this point (not to single out JCIN, yes he is a moron),
LOL...wow. Been holding on to that one huh?

Just to refresh your memory you WERE the dude who jumped in a thread and in order to try and gain some cool guy points with your new friends on AZ said this " to make a long story short, i will state 2 options for you:

option 1: i will send you 1/2 of your $50 you feel is right;

option 2: give me his full name and address, and i will call my friends here and make sure that if he comes to vegas he will not return."

Your words. From this post: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=941757&postcount=19

Uhhhh..yeah guess I was just reading a little too much between the lines there. After reading it again I see you really weren't saying that you would call your friends and make sure the dude would never return from Las Vegas, you were really trying to say "Look at me I am cool, I will threaten to contract murder over a cue deal. I am tough. I know people. Please accept me." No difference between that thread and this one at all.

Please accept my sincerest apologies if I offended your delicate sensibilities. I do not want to "never return" from Vegas. Please do not hurt me.

Sincerley,

Justin Collett (moron)

:rolleyes:

Oh yeah...one minor point....I very seriously doubt all of those little kids in China were running around in "U.S. Army flak jackets" unless they came upon a bonanza of 20 LB body armor somewhere. Devil is in the details. Ohhh....damn there I go again expecting you meant what you actually said. My bad. I must say though if you want us to understand what you mean instead of what you say....why not just say that?
 
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dave sutton said:
you are all crazy.

i hope you dont bash this thread then get into your honda to go get your chinese food for dinner, then watch your sony tv during dinner at your kitchen table that was made in taiwan or indonesia. need i go on???

ps maybe i missed a price but i think a retail of 200$ isnt that bad when ron thomas gets $300 or $400. esp if hes using to quality products. costs money to ship that stuff there too...

i agree joe. i posted this a few pages back. i think this thread is ridiculous
 
RRfireblade said:
Let's be real for a second ,

You can not survive without import products , period.

There are no non import included cars , USA based (Ford,Chevy, Etc) or not. Non import included homes. Not a closet without import included clothing or fabrics , home electronics . . . puh leaze , any one here watch a non import TV , Have a cell phone ? It's an endless list in eery aspect of life.

Or is it just China we hate ? :confused:

agreed.

however dont think some of them parts in that chevy arent built overseas. i bet they are
 
ShootingArts said:
CC,

You are absolutely right, China is much the same as roughly 1980 Japan. Japan's government assisted it's industry in focused targeting of one area after another of US industry with illegal supports and price dumping to destroy that sector of US industry and then they systematically moved on to the next target. Japanese society saw no difference between business and war which pretty much says it all since someone our age knows how they conducted war. Now China is indeed following in their footsteps with government and industry often merged together and even after making products dirt cheap with slave and near slave labor dumping it on the marketplace at below even that cost. I am quite sure that China deliberately followed Japan's successful model.

As an aside to the other poster that thinks Japan instantly became a "good guy" after WWII, far from it. The major differences between Japan and Germany are that Japan still denies many of their atrocities or refuses to apologize for them and many Japanese still believe that they are the master race.

Hu

Actually until the mid 90's China was pretty much closed. Deng Xiao Ping did two things to open it up - he ordered that the exchange rate be made 8:1 and he relaxed the rules to allow foreign investment.

The Chinese do not believe that they are at economic war with the USA. They believe that they are at economic disparity and want to close that gap. They want to have what we have.

The goverment is concerned with feeding 1.2 billion people. 1.2 billion people are looking to prosper as best they can.

While there are a lot of state owned industries that is changing dramatically. Most of the consumer goods in China are made by privately owned non-state supported companies. Utilities are still state owned for the most part but with partnerships with major multinationals in many cases.

But is government support here so different than government support in the USA? In the USA we have subsidies, we have special tax breaks, we have special contracts for certain industries, we have land grants and situations where land is taken from some people by the government to give to others for business purposes. We have special grants for some and not for others. We have tariffs on some things to "protect" certain industries while other less infuential ones are left to flounder on their own.

The Chinese are far less organized about things than Japan is. Where the Japanese are ruthless planners who write 100 year plans and act on them relentlessly, China is much much much more short term in that they don't want to see a hundred million people starve or die in natural disasters. They are focused on the coming two to five years and desperately trying to maintain control over this sprawling giant.

The Japanese, the Americans, the Taiwanese, the Koreans are all milking China for all it's worth and when they are done they will leave a bunch of empty rotting factories behind. Just this past month hundreds of Korean businesses pulled up and just left, leaving tens of thousands of workers without employment and without their last month's pay. But these poor folks just deserved it after all for being born Chinese didn't they?

I am tired of hearing how "China" is doing this or that. China isn't doing anything but serving the rest of the world. A few companies are trying to develop beyond the Chinese borders. Many companies are figuring out how to serve the domestic market in China and wean themselves off of dependency on foreign orders.

The Chinese are gobbling up McDonalds cheesburgers faster than Mickey D's can build new restaurants. Ray Croc's picture has replaced Mao Zhe Dong's. The NBA and Trout Fishing are shown on Chinese tv. Nascar is shown on Chinese tv with chinese commentary.

How anyone can condemn a country full of people that so desperatly yearns to be American is beyond me.

I have lived all over the world. I have lived among all economic classes.

I will never understand a sentiment that forgives the Germans and the Japanese after the atrocities they committed in world war 2 and then condemns the victims for simply seeking a better life. Yes, what the Germans did to the Jews, the Japanese did to the Chinese. Yes the Chinese have commited and continue to commit many human rights violations. So did and does the United States of America. But the government is not the people, not in the USA nor in China. If Germany and Japan can be counted as allies now then one would do well not to make enemies of someone we have never been at war with and who longs to be friends with us.

And with that I am done here for a while. It's 3 am and I have abused this account by doing the very thing I told myself not to.

May all of you find true peace within yourselves and practice acceptance for those that deserve it and justice for those that deserve and find the wisdom to know the difference.

John
 
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dave sutton said:
agreed.

however dont think some of them parts in that chevy arent built overseas. i bet they are

I could have been more clear but that was my point. In most case over 20% of the average US made car is imported and often times much more than that.
 
John, as often happens, we seem to disagree very slightly

John,

We actually disagree very slightly concerning the things you expressed here. First, I was comparing I think actually seventies Japan to near present day China. Secondly, I was addressing governments and their policies far more than people. Also you are right about tariffs and such to a certain extent. However you and I both know that the US tariffs are far from at a reciprocal level. While someone was gloating about I believe Korean economy cars making inroads in the US not too many years ago, I did a little checking and discovered that largely due to tariffs, our economy car would cost roughly $80,000 in the country in question. Let's see under $14K here retail, $80K retail there for basically the same car, why can't the US penetrate that market? Obviously because we have an inferior product!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You are absolutely right that many companies were eagerly awaiting a chance to take advantage of the economic disparities between China and more developed countries. As that balances somewhat these same companies will pull up stakes and move on to the next desperately poor country to rape. That certainly doesn't make it right. I sincerely wish all the best for the Chinese people and people all over the world. It is governments and other entities I often disagree with the policies of, including my own government.

I favor automatic equal reciprocal tariffs with all countries, a set-up that a few countries had maybe a decade ago, no idea concerning current status. I feel that the US can compete in enough areas if there is fair trade to maintain a good market balance. The fact that US private industry can't compete with governments who use both their economic and political clout to target small sectors of our industry proves nothing about our ability in an open market.

Hu


JB Cases said:
Actually until the mid 90's China was pretty much closed. Deng Xiao Ping did two things to open it up - he ordered that the exchange rate be made 8:1 and he relaxed the rules to allow foreign investment.

The Chinese do not believe that they are at economic war with the USA. They believe that they are at economic disparity and want to close that gap. They want to have what we have.

The goverment is concerned with feeding 1.2 billion people. 1.2 billion people are looking to prosper as best they can.

While there are a lot of state owned industries that is changing dramatically. Most of the consumer goods in China are made by privately owned non-state supported companies. Utilities are still state owned for the most part but with partnerships with major multinationals in many cases.

But is government support here so different than government support in the USA? In the USA we have subsidies, we have special tax breaks, we have special contracts for certain industries, we have land grants and situations where land is taken from some people by the government to give to others for business purposes. We have special grants for some and not for others. We have tariffs on some things to "protect" certain industries while other less infuential ones are left to flounder on their own.

The Chinese are far less organized about things than Japan is. Where the Japanese are ruthless planners who write 100 year plans and act on them relentlessly, China is much much much more short term in that they don't want to see a hundred million people starve or die in natural disasters. They are focused on the coming two to five years and desperately trying to maintain control over this sprawling giant.

The Japanese, the Americans, the Taiwanese, the Koreans are all milking China for all it's worth and when they are done they will leave a bunch of empty rotting factories behind. Just this past month hundreds of Korean businesses pulled up and just left, leaving tens of thousands of workers without employment and without their last month's pay. But these poor folks just deserved it after all for being born Chinese didn't they?

I am tired of hearing how "China" is doing this or that. China isn't doing anything but serving the rest of the world. A few companies are trying to develop beyond the Chinese borders. Many companies are figuring out how to serve the domestic market in China and wean themselves off of dependency on foreign orders.

The Chinese are gobbling up McDonalds cheesburgers faster than Mickey D's can build new restaurants. Ray Croc's picture has replaced Mao Zhe Dong's. The NBA and Trout Fishing are shown on Chinese tv. Nascar is shown on Chinese tv with chinese commentary.

How anyone can condemn a country full of people that so desperatly yearns to be American is beyond me.

I have lived all over the world. I have lived among all economic classes.

I will never understand a sentiment that forgives the Germans and the Japanese after the atrocities they committed in world war 2 and then condemns the victims for simply seeking a better life. Yes, what the Germans did to the Jews, the Japanese did to the Chinese. Yes the Chinese have commited and continue to commit many human rights violations. So did and does the United States of America. But the government is not the people, not in the USA nor in China. If Germany and Japan can be counted as allies now then one would do well not to make enemies of someone we have never been at war with and who longs to be friends with us.

And with that I am done here for a while. It's 3 am and I have abused this account by doing the very thing I told myself not to.

May all of you find true peace within yourselves and practice acceptance for those that deserve it and justice for those that deserve and find the wisdom to know the difference.

John
 
$400+ Engles Cases

JB Cases said:
I am not entirely sure that I understand.

If a case is the same or better quality than it's closest competitor then how is the pricing "out of whack" when the price is also the same?

If Mr. Thomas has a black leather nappa case, and I use black leather nappa because it's the easiest to compare, for $195 and GTF has one for $200 and the GTF case is better in several areas then isn't the $5 justified?

We know that there is indeed a "market" for $200 leather 1x2 cases in the style of George and Centennial since Mr. Thomas sells them. So I think that $200 is priced right at the market level.

We know that there is a market for Fellini and Engles cases in the $400+ range. So $300 seems to be right for that style. Of course Fellini and Engles have the collectibility factor due to the fact that no more are being made. However what is not being looked at in this trip into basic economics is that 30 years ago a leather Fellini case cost $50 and gas was .25cts a gallon. Now gas is $2.50 a gallon. So by that comparison the modern version of the Fellini case should cost $500 retail. 30 years ago a 4 point Gus Szamboti would set you back $150. Today a four point Barry Szamboti will set you back $1000 or more.

So the cases are priced correctly for the quality level that is currently on the market. If you are the kind of person who buys based on quality then these cases are a steal at twice the price. If you are someone who buys on speculation and are looking for the chance to flip something then these cases are worth nothng to you now. Come back and see us in twenty years when people are looking for the first run of GTF cases, the "GTF 2008" ones. We have a few tucked away.

Wish we would have done that with those Titelists and Sampios we thought were overpriced 50 years ago.

The $400+ Engles cases your referring to were fabricated utilizing exotic skins and/or were tooled.

I was buying NEW, entry level Engles cases for under $200 which your comparing to the $300 GTF. As far as I know there was no formal "retail" price.

When will the multi-cue cases be available?
 
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ribdoner said:
The $400+ Engles cases your referring to were fabricated utilizing exotic skins and/or were tooled.

I was buying NEW, entry level Engles cases for under $200 which your comparing to the $300 GTF. As far ad I know there was no formal "retail" price.

When will the multi-cue cases be available?

Fair enough. I had barely heard of Engles before undertaking this project so I admit to near ignorance of his product and pricing structure.

The point is that the GTF has it's price. There are people who will pay it and people who won't. Very very very few people can make a living predicting what markets will do and even less are willing to bet on their convictions.

The 2x4's will be available within 30 days. I assume that pictures will be released soon.

But I shouldn't be answering these questions. Please address future ones to Straight Pool.

Thanks,

John
 
ShootingArts said:
John,

We actually disagree very slightly concerning the things you expressed here. First, I was comparing I think actually seventies Japan to near present day China. Secondly, I was addressing governments and their policies far more than people. Also you are right about tariffs and such to a certain extent. However you and I both know that the US tariffs are far from at a reciprocal level. While someone was gloating about I believe Korean economy cars making inroads in the US not too many years ago, I did a little checking and discovered that largely due to tariffs, our economy car would cost roughly $80,000 in the country in question. Let's see under $14K here retail, $80K retail there for basically the same car, why can't the US penetrate that market? Obviously because we have an inferior product!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You are absolutely right that many companies were eagerly awaiting a chance to take advantage of the economic disparities between China and more developed countries. As that balances somewhat these same companies will pull up stakes and move on to the next desperately poor country to rape. That certainly doesn't make it right. I sincerely wish all the best for the Chinese people and people all over the world. It is governments and other entities I often disagree with the policies of, including my own government.

I favor automatic equal reciprocal tariffs with all countries, a set-up that a few countries had maybe a decade ago, no idea concerning current status. I feel that the US can compete in enough areas if there is fair trade to maintain a good market balance. The fact that US private industry can't compete with governments who use both their economic and political clout to target small sectors of our industry proves nothing about our ability in an open market.

Hu


Hu,

You are absolutely correct about the tariff imbalances. And automatic reciprocal tariffs would end the problem. Kind of an economic nuclear standoff.

I jsut want to say that as far as I know there is no government support for billiards products going in either direction. Billiards is under the government radar.

So GTF receives zero help from either the Chinese or US Goverment to compete with US products. All of the investment is from private United States equity as far as I know. :-) I didn't ask.

And from what I have seen the Chinese are free to buy Southwest cues, Chris Nittis, Omens, and many other high end cues.

So dealers, try being nice to China because the next 'boom' in cue buying might come from rich Chinese players and I know you'd love to get some of those dollars back to the USA while moving your inventory.
 
I Drive a Toyota Tacoma.
I watch an LG tv.
I use an LG cell phone.
I date a hispanic girl.
I love the USA.

Now about the new cases. From the pictures by Classic cue, the cases look amazing. I will buy one at the first chance I can. I dont care if they are made on Mars. Will there be any at the Derby???

Ian.
 
I hope you all buy these GTF cases made in (Chicagochina) while im buying the "other" makers cases................:D
 
JB, You've been listening to much more Manderin than you need too,it has clouded your comprehension! I spoke with Bob V. recently,and we both raved about your tooled multi cue cowboy style cases. I expected something on that level or better,taking into consideration the hype I had read.I continue to add cues,with no cases to house them,I was hoping your case was what I was looking for.
I left out the one case maker I think got closest to the Fellini,Bill McDaniel. I know for a fact he was part of Engles' inspiration,and so far he is number 2 under the vaunted Fellini design. I don't,and may never know,how Bob got it so right the first time,but he did. Bill's Kelli(named after oneof his daughters)case is next best,followed by Engles. These 3 all had the finished ends,and Engles in his later cases came up with the Holy Grail Diary lock like Fellini and Kelli.Without that lock,or a new twist on the closure,you will be hard pressed to claim the best of them. I will be waiting.
 
Still going.....just like the Energizer bunny. :)

Didn't Bill Clinton have something to do with creating the trade imbalance? The Free Trade agreement etc. Who knows that whole story. I heard he sold us out.

I haven't spent years in China only a few weeks at a time. I loved the people, open and friendly everywhere I went. I needed treatment for an infection on my leg, and went to a hospital in Guangzhou. No problem, take a number and wait your turn. No one cared that I was American. Again very nice. In approx. 30 minutes I saw a skin specialist. He examined me and wrote out a prescription. I went downstairs to the pharmacy, located on the ground floor of the hospital. I was given the medicine I needed and paid approx. $15 for the visit to the doctor and the medicine. Guess what, infection cured within three days.

I saw prosperity and poverty every where as well. Just like in the good ole USA. I never have seen so many giant cranes erecting structures all across the skyline of every major city I visited. Buildings were going up right and left all across the horizon. In each city is a neighborhood for the wealthy, with expensive condos, Mercedes and Rolls Royce dealerships and high end retailers of all kinds. Gucci, Armani, it was all there. Prices were on a par with U.S stores. And yes, the best products from the USA were being sold there too. Estee Lauder for the women and Nike for the men. Etc Etc.

And a few miles away entire families were living in little corrugated tin roof huts. But if you walked down the alleyways, there was a thriving marketplace with many food stands and other businesses. Everyone was selling something, from little girls selling gum to old women selling bananas.

Their are large malls there teeming with people, and they do love anything American. Many young people wanted to converse with me. And others just greeted me with a smile. I can tell why John likes it so much over there.

I played pool in a giant recreation stadium, featuring bowling, billiards, ping pong and video games. There was a restaurant and bar there also. It was a huge complex, maybe forty to fifty thousand square feet. And business was good, very good. I inquired whether the government owned this lucrative business, and was told no. It was owned by three young men. WOW! Capitalism at its best. I did find out later that they had to pay a hefty tariff to the local government every month. We call it taxes. I don't know what they call it.

I saw soldiers everywhere also. The communist forces make their presence felt. One night I went for a walk with a lady friend and we were strolling through a shopping district. She went into a store and I waited outside. There was a commotion across the street. Two soldiers were harassing an old women with a vendors cart. One soldier was holding onto it and she was trying to wrench it from his grasp.

She was screaming out and many people stopped to watch. The soldiers appeared quite angry with her. NO ONE intervened. My friend came out to see what was going on. I asked her what all the yelling was about. She said the soldiers wanted a "tax" from her and she didn't want to pay. I walked across the street close to the dispute. She was trying mightily to get away, with her cart. Finally the soldiers took all her goods off the cart and set them on the ground. She was crying and screaming now.

I couldn't stand it anymore. I asked my friend how much money they wanted from her. She told me 100 Chinese dollars, about $14 U.S. I had over 2,000 Chinese dollars in my pocket. I took out a 100 dollar bill to give to them, but she grabbed my hand. DO NOT GET INVOLVED she told me! DON'T! DON'T!

She pulled me away. She said they will put me in jail if I try to help. I was angry but a little fearful as well. I knew at that moment I had no "rights" there. My stature and contacts in the USA could not help me now.

I'm sad now as I remember this incident. My heart goes out to that poor women. They took her cart and all her possessions away as I stood idly by. I'll never forget that moment. I asked my friend what this is all about. She said EVERYONE must pay a tariff to the government, usually once a week. I asked her if that included the stores along the street where she was shopping. She said yes, them too. I asked what if they can't or won't pay. Their business will be closed she said.

It reminds me of the mob and the "protection" money they take from legitimate businesses. It didn't leave me with a good feeling about China. The Communists are definitely still in charge. The people have only what "rights" the Communists will allow.
 
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Jack Welch, CEO at General Electric started OUT SORCING

ShootingArts said:
CC,

You are absolutely right, China is much the same as roughly 1980 Japan. Japan's government assisted it's industry in focused targeting of one area after another of US industry with illegal supports and price dumping to destroy that sector of US industry and then they systematically moved on to the next target. Japanese society saw no difference between business and war which pretty much says it all since someone our age knows how they conducted war. Now China is indeed following in their footsteps with government and industry often merged together and even after making products dirt cheap with slave and near slave labor dumping it on the marketplace at below even that cost. I am quite sure that China deliberately followed Japan's successful model.

As an aside to the other poster that thinks Japan instantly became a "good guy" after WWII, far from it. The major differences between Japan and Germany are that Japan still denies many of their atrocities or refuses to apologize for them and many Japanese still believe that they are the master race.

Hu


Well the people the American Worker needs blame for the loss of their american jobs in many cases are the Unionized American Worker who in some cases are over paid (salaries & benefit packages) for the job they do because of Union Contracts that have forced, or given a reason for many American Companies to ?OUT SOURCE? jobs to far away places.

Plus many of these UNION Job if performed in the private sector would pay slightly above minimum wage. Good example is a cousin who work for Delco Remy (now Delphi) in Anderson Indiana in the late 60?s. His position was ?SWEEPER?, pushed a broom, and keep the factory clean. Salary was like $12.00+/hr. Plus a Benefit Package that was just wonderful. Private sector back than would have paid him $3.00/Hr.

Jack Welch when he was CEO at General Electric started out sourcing, a term for send work out of the US. My neighbor who was with GE for 30+ years in finance traveled to GE plants in Asia, and South America doing accounting before many Americans realized that major components in GE product were made off shore, or out of the US.

The next set of people the American Worker need blame for the loss of their american jobs, is our US Congresspersons, Senators, and the President.

As these are the folk who have pass FREE TRADE LAWS, that has allowed America to get more IMPORTS, then we EXPORT.

When I was a kid growing up in the US. The Major Auto companies that were selling cars were, GM, Chrysler, Ford, Studabaker, AMC (Rambler).

No one ever heard of Honda, Infinity, Nissan, Datsun, Acura, KIA, Hundi, Suzaki, Mazda, or a couple of others.

Now Ford, & Chrysler are struggling, and GM is not setting the world on fire.

If the Chinese are indeed following the game plan or business model of the Japanese, they are planning 10 years ahead. Most American companies plan maybe 1 year ahead maximum.

If you are looking to find American products do not go to Wal-Mart as I would guess 80% or more of their offering are made off shore.

Like Disney products, NFL, NBA, MLB, Hockey Merchandise/Team products, and even the famous Ralph Lauren Polo dress shirts with the horse log that retail over $90.00 and are made in Baglasdesh, or was it Packistan, or Ser Linka.
 
Call me a bigot if you want but I don't drive imported cars, I don't buy shirts made in Bangladesh, I don't buy Levis not made in the USA & I dont buy overpriced cue cases made in China!
 
Grumpy said:
Call me a bigot if you want but I don't drive imported cars, I don't buy shirts made in Bangladesh, I don't buy Levis not made in the USA & I dont buy overpriced cue cases made in China!

Tap - Tap - Tap !
Thans for bringing this to the top.:D
Glen
 
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