The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
There you have it everyone, lock the thread.
We have the real answer from a scholar of the game.


FYI,

I went down to the table yesterday. Decided to try looking at the OB last. Broke a rack, and the first shot I had was somewhat on the easy side. Missed a half mile.

r/DCP
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Gold Member
Silver Member
FYI,

I went down to the table yesterday. Decided to try looking at the OB last. Broke a rack, and the first shot I had was somewhat on the easy side. Missed a half mile.

r/DCP

Most bangers miss easy shots, it’s not a surprise, it’s expected.
 

megatron69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good points. Except maybe stress. Not into that. That kind of experience is the biggest source of compromise and bad decisions. (see death row)

To be sure, learn to fade the pressure but seriously, look inside for what motivates you.

Sorry but I have to disagree. i every sport/physical activity I've ever reached a real level of mastery, there's always been a significant difference between practice and actual play/performance.

Whether it be in golf, pool, martial arts, hunting, fly fishing, sales rep instruction, flight instruction, defensive handgun instruction, etc., practicing only takes the student so far. "Playing for real" is what separates the "driving range pros" from the people that play on the Tour.

It's all well and good to be great at home on your own table playing yourself, but too many times I've seen those great at-home players fail to follow-through at the poolhall/bar on a strange table surrounded by strangers. And always they walk away from a missed shot muttering something like, "I don't understand it. I make that shot at home all the time."

I'll leave one personal example here: many years ago I was at a certain level where at least 50% of the time I could run most if not all of the balls in 9- r 8-ball, but had this tendency to over-stroke the last shot prior to making shape on the 8/9ball. I was ridiculously consistent about it. This left me with a much tougher or basically impossible shot nearly every time. I couldn't understand it for a couple years.

Then one day, I really focused on evaluating what I was doing on that next-to-last shot, and realized that I was doing a couple things i never did in practice. I was holding my breath, my shoulders were tight, I was gripping the cue with my whole hand and kind of tightly, and finally I was actually very slightly leaning away from the shot. Kind of back on my heels.

And i only did things like that during a tournament, or league or a money game. Never in practice, because I knew it wasn't for anything, so I was always relaxed in practice. Once i realized the problem, I forced myself to relax, to let out most of my breath before holding it, to hold the cue with just my thumb and two fingers, and to lean forward onto the balls of my feet, just barely.

And just like that, the problem of over-stroking went away.

So to my mind, real game-time stress is a primary teacher in the struggle to get better, not a hindrance.

Peace.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
@ Megatron

Consider a multi A pro vs a league 3 (beginner) no compensating handicap. The pro could phone in the victory.

Now put multi A pro in with a soup of multi A pros and their "mental powers". Something miraculous happens. The majority will dog their way to attrition. That could be just a couple errors; same thing. Where did the pool go? Point being, it's the skills (rhetorical stupid).

So if who you beat is what it is, then it is I who disagree with you.

Current hottie Josh Filler is a good example of what I mean. He compromises his offense as sparingly as possible. He puts all the treachery and stress where it belongs (in the trash IMO) and takes advantage of the lack of return fire; de facto setting the spread closer to that hypothetical multi A pro vs the beginner.

And yes stress, by engaging the survival mechanism puts the possibility of bad decisions at 50% give or take.
What's this junction for? I thought you could play?/!11??

etc...

Accomplishment is more than the record books. I choose improvement over scalp count every time.
 

megatron69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
@ Megatron

Consider a multi A pro vs a league 3 (beginner) no compensating handicap. The pro could phone in the victory.

Now put multi A pro in with a soup of multi A pros and their "mental powers". Something miraculous happens. The majority will dog their way to attrition. That could be just a couple errors; same thing. Where did the pool go? Point being, it's the skills (rhetorical stupid).

So if who you beat is what it is, then it is I who disagree with you.

Current hottie Josh Filler is a good example of what I mean. He compromises his offense as sparingly as possible. He puts all the treachery and stress where it belongs (in the trash IMO) and takes advantage of the lack of return fire; de facto setting the spread closer to that hypothetical multi A pro vs the beginner.

And yes stress, by engaging the survival mechanism puts the possibility of bad decisions at 50% give or take.
What's this junction for? I thought you could play?/!11??

etc...

Accomplishment is more than the record books. I choose improvement over scalp count every time.

That's funny. Because I don't remember saying anything about having to win, just becoming better.

And I learned more and made more progress as a player by forcing myself to play against better players. Sure, at first they could beat me with one hand tied behind their back. But eventually I learned to put the stress towards the back of my mind, to learn to find an even strain in spite of all the stress.

I don't believe there's a way to really improve until you learn how to fail, and why you're failing. Not if you want to break through that plateau to mastery.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's funny. Because I don't remember saying anything about having to win, just becoming better.

And I learned more and made more progress as a player by forcing myself to play against better players. Sure, at first they could beat me with one hand tied behind their back. But eventually I learned to put the stress towards the back of my mind, to learn to find an even strain in spite of all the stress.

I don't believe there's a way to really improve until you learn how to fail, and why you're failing. Not if you want to break through that plateau to mastery.

See, winning IS the point of sports. That's also its fail. It's nice you got the mechanics of jockdom sorted out but what is the fail in competition? I come up with losing. I wasted enough time with the predator crowd to learn what I need to work on. How to win ain't it.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The key to winning is forgetting you are playing anybody at all.

You are playing the table.

If you are not at the table you are not playing...you are sitting.

When you are at the table, it is you and the table...your opponent is sitting.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The key to winning is forgetting you are playing anybody at all.

You are playing the table.

If you are not at the table you are not playing...you are sitting.

When you are at the table, it is you and the table...your opponent is sitting.

Absolutely this; ideally anyway. It's about the headroom you have. So I practice the pool fully aware that there is already a Rodney Morris. I keep learning regardless...
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Exactly....

The key to winning is forgetting you are playing anybody at all.

You are playing the table.

If you are not at the table you are not playing...you are sitting.

When you are at the table, it is you and the table...your opponent is sitting.

And when you practice the right things you will do the right things under pressure.

The number one thing we dog with a little stress is the eyes. Whether it be not looking at the OB or not looking at anything at all.

If you don't have a definite process you are totally lost when the shit hits the fan. Like the hill hill match for $1000. Or the hill match in a big tournament.

Especially after playing for two days and being dead tired.

You better come down right and have the eyes right or your going to lose.

This is what separates the the men from the boys.

:thumbup:
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So say you. If you can line up and turn your head away before shooting you can certainly line up and look at the cue ball; or in your case, learn how.

Welcome back to your thread. :D
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
The key to winning is forgetting you are playing anybody at all.

You are playing the table.

If you are not at the table you are not playing...you are sitting.

When you are at the table, it is you and the table...your opponent is sitting.


Now there is the best thing said in the Forum in a long while, and it was totally with out cost.
 

megatron69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
See, winning IS the point of sports. That's also its fail. It's nice you got the mechanics of jockdom sorted out but what is the fail in competition? I come up with losing. I wasted enough time with the predator crowd to learn what I need to work on. How to win ain't it.

What is the "predator crowd"? Never heard that before.

And if all you get out of failure or losing is "losing," then you're not paying attention, because failure and losing are learning opportunities. Figure that out and you're well down the path to improvement.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What is the "predator crowd"? Never heard that before.

And if all you get out of failure or losing is "losing," then you're not paying attention, because failure and losing are learning opportunities. Figure that out and you're well down the path to improvement.

I think the wording is more like, learn to crawl before you walk before you run.

Don't get the term "predator crowd"? maybe you're the one in a vacuum.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perfect Example of players doing things that are wrong..

And, he's obviously not looking at the cue ball on the first one either, although we can't tell if he is looking at the object ball or not.

This was a perfect example of a player doing things wrong and still doing pretty good. So many players play so good in spite of what they are doing.

I did 5 full lessons this week and everyone needed so much help. They were fairly good players but there was so much wrong with everything.

It was just small adjustments with each players but the results were huge.

Making pool great again for 5 lucky player this week. It doesn't get any better than this. :thumbup:
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Just Like Chess

The key to winning is forgetting you are playing anybody at all.

You are playing the table.

If you are not at the table you are not playing...you are sitting.

When you are at the table, it is you and the table...your opponent is sitting.




When it is your move playing chess your opponent is just sitting. So you are not playing your opponent but the board. I wonder why chess players haven't figured that out!

Hu
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
When it is your move playing chess your opponent is just sitting. So you are not playing your opponent but the board. I wonder why chess players haven't figured that out!

Hu

They have not figure out what make sense, observation is on mark. Tried Chess from time to time, never did well at it, I was to busy to learn the strategy, moves, and last had the ability to predict other person strategy. IMHO Chess is like Pool if you want to be great it must be life's work.
 
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ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Gold Member
Silver Member
They have not figure out what make sense, observation is on mark. Tried Chess from time to time, never did well at it, I was to busy to learn the strategy, moves, and last had the ability to predict other person strategy. IMHO Chess is like Pool if you want to be great it must be life's work.

Never did well at chess? Why is that? Didn’t have a coach or buy and read a chess book. I got 3 times more pool books then chess books, but without the chess books I’d be lost, and would have taken a lifetime to get beyond beginner level. Nothing cuts the learning curve like good coaching.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
Never did well at chess? Why is that? Didn’t have a coach or buy and read a chess book. I got 3 times more pool books then chess books, but without the chess books I’d be lost, and would have taken a lifetime to get beyond beginner level. Nothing cuts the learning curve like good coaching.

Well here is the deal if I was young, and want to be really great at a sport. My choice would be Golf. I would work my backside off master that game.

Most PAG Pro make a nice living out of the game, when you get up in years then move on to the SR. PGA Tour.

High side is a where you say I should have, but Golf is not cheap to get equipped in, and green fees get pricy. So you might just have to work a real job, to chase that dream until you make the PGA Tour.

Most people who expect to be really great at anything from getting great grade in H/S, or College. Or even a Sport work at it real hard. Good friend has two girl who both got full college Schlorship in sports, one was basket ball, the other was shocker.

These kids were not lucky, they work at their sport real hard, and we're lucky family was able to pay the price in the off season to have them on great traveling club teams. College scout say their potential, and both got free ride to colleges. Truth was the free ride did cost time, energy, cost of club sports teams, travel, motels, meals, etc. So the FREE College education was paid for but less then the cost of the opportunity to go to college for free.
 
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