The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

[ShootingArts]

cue ball last

lol.... I hear ya. How about we say looking at the CB last "isn't as good"...?

I think I said earlier, but I'm a OB last kind of guy. What's happening with the CB has alreadly been sorted out prior to final aiming. I credit my fundamentals for that.

Rather than back checking through the thread and looking for the potential answer for myself. Can you detail why you opt to view the CB last...? What is it your looking to verify at the CB and run the risk of falling off the aiming line you have already sorted out...?

Well, I'll tell ya a story about cue ball last, two really. First seems like Ralf Souquet makes it work OK. Best I recall he was ranked #1 in the world for a few years. Just a snip:

Ralf Souquet (/ s uː ˈ k eɪ / soo-KAY; born 29 November 1968 in Eschweiler) is a German professional pool player. His nickname is "The Kaiser". Since 1981, he has won more than 500 tournament titles, including 41 German Championship titles and 34 European Pool Championships titles. Souquet is a two time world champion, winning the 2008 WPA World Eight-ball Championship, and 1996 WPA World ...



I have found that when I haven't been playing for awhile I hit about a sixteenth of an inch high left of where I mean to. Consistently, I had suspected I might be all over the place but no, dead on that spot, just the wrong spot. Inquiring minds want to know and all of that so one day at the world's pool hall I started flagging down players. Tried a few other places too. Maybe twenty guys total, from bangers to shortstops. I didn't tell them what I was testing, just set up a pretty easy cut, cue ball sixteen to eighteen inches out from the end rail, the object ball about the same distance from the corner pocket and about a half ball cut. I found that only two of the guys hit the cue ball exactly where they intended to. Both were bangers, both looked at the cue ball last!

I look at anything or nothing last. Doesn't matter once I have lined up the shot. I am an equal opportunity misser and maker!

Hu

 

[The_JV]

I look at anything or nothing last. Doesn't matter once I have lined up the shot. I am an equal opportunity misser and maker!

Nice... it's good to not to discriminate... :smile:

Not to dispute the Kaiser or anyone else for that matter. I just find in my game I can rely on my alignment between the cue and CB more than I can my actual aim to the OB.

Different strokes for different folks. For me the "less wrong" is OB last.

 

[Poolmanis]

Well, I'll tell ya a story about cue ball last, two really. First seems like Ralf Souquet makes it work OK. Best I recall he was ranked #1 in the world for a few years. Just a snip:

Ralf Souquet (/ s uː ˈ k eɪ / soo-KAY; born 29 November 1968 in Eschweiler) is a German professional pool player. His nickname is "The Kaiser". Since 1981, he has won more than 500 tournament titles, including 41 German Championship titles and 34 European Pool Championships titles. Souquet is a two time world champion, winning the 2008 WPA World Eight-ball Championship, and 1996 WPA World ...



I have found that when I haven't been playing for awhile I hit about a sixteenth of an inch high left of where I mean to. Consistently, I had suspected I might be all over the place but no, dead on that spot, just the wrong spot. Inquiring minds want to know and all of that so one day at the world's pool hall I started flagging down players. Tried a few other places too. Maybe twenty guys total, from bangers to shortstops. I didn't tell them what I was testing, just set up a pretty easy cut, cue ball sixteen to eighteen inches out from the end rail, the object ball about the same distance from the corner pocket and about a half ball cut. I found that only two of the guys hit the cue ball exactly where they intended to. Both were bangers, both looked at the cue ball last!

I look at anything or nothing last. Doesn't matter once I have lined up the shot. I am an equal opportunity misser and maker!

Hu

Rodney Morris also claims he watch cueball. He says Efren do it too but i am not too sure about it.
I am watching cueball last most of the time. Or i am locked on visual "spot" or "line" in my aiming line. I try keep OB in my vision somewhere but i wont look it. Week ago I played Finnish Kaisa ranking event. Game with super tough pockets on 11ft table(67mm balls and 70mm pockets). I was really focusing where i hit to cueball and ended up playing super solid tournament and won it. Won 2 world champs in row to reach final where i did beat current ranking n.1 who is super strong 17.y old player who is ranking n.1 in 4 different games currently, including Russian Pyramid.
I don´t look object ball because i don´t look spots from ball or edges. I just try guess(or calculate) my aiming line based of cut angle. I try get exact number like in axample 42 degree cut. I know 42 degree is really close to 1/4 ball width off from edge of ball. which is about 14mm. Then i try see line 14mm off from ball and lock down to that line. Hard to explain with my mediocre English skills anyway.
I know from experience that my method not work with anyone and I can "see" from pros who is using similar stuff and claim that Filler does.

When mastered should be simple.
1. Guess cut angle that shot have.
2. think how spin and deflection of the shot gonna affect the shot. Note : also speed must consider coz curves on balls.
3. See what aiming line on table surface gives u cut angle u need.
4. line up and lock down to that aiming line.
5. Feel the shot. This is phase i look ob. If it wont feel right get up and pick adjusted aiming line. If shot feels good move on to next one. Note: our feel is sometimes wrong and can be corrected with proper kind of practice. I use mechanical overdrive drills to overcome my feel so i can accept that my feel was wrong earlier.
6. Focus shifts to tip pinpoint position.
7. Fire. it is easier to shoot straight when u look straight line in front that u try to hit. Cue tend to follow that line easier then.
7. analyze shot. did u hit aiming line that u intended? if u did and ball was missed then u know your estimate of angle was wrong.

I don´t try to tell people that my method is better than others but this what i came up after i had 7 years no playing and started thinking how snooker pros so accurate every day. Half ball cut is big part of learning my way. I am still improving at age of 43 and running centuries in snooker and 14.1.
Only few players(really) picked up what i teach but they came from bangers to solid b+ players fast and they were near 50´s.
Also my little sister came back to pool after 24 years off from it. I started to coach her whenever i visit her town. She elected 1st to national team of FInland´s women in 2020 European Champs. Unlucky. That competition never came due Corona.

My little sister doing Dr Daves spot shot challenge. :thumbup: (about 4min long)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUg1rTJz9yw&t=

Edit: Also focusing to get bridge "V" to exactly to shot line is also vital aspect for consistency. I never see this emphasized anywhere. I believe most common mistake to get it little offline and then our subconscious mind have to start to crook stroke to make a ball. which leads to slump over time.

 

[The_JV]

Good enough for me... I'll give CB last a go for a bit and see if I notice any change.

 

[straightline]

Nice to be in such distinguished company. I am not worthy.

:grin-square:

 

[ShootingArts]

Congratulations!

Looks like you are shooting very well and can teach it to others too. I put value on one person able to use a technique but I put much more value on it when they can teach it to others and it works for their students.

I don't bother arguing with people that think they look at the object ball last but if you watch at the pool hall, watch video of the pro's too, it is very common for people who say they look at the object ball last to have their eyes drift to the cue ball as the stick starts forward to hit the cue ball.

I spent about three weeks looking at the cue ball last. I found it made no difference in potting skills, certainly didn't hurt them. Then I went back to my old method of looking at any spot along the cue ball's path or the extended path it would take if it didn't hit the object ball or rail. Some places are awkward for me to look so if I am staring straight down at the cloth I am usually fine with that too. Usually happens when I am stretched out so the shot can't be too long anyway.

I do think whatever works for an individual is fine. I don't try to say everyone has to do things my way. Works for me, other's mileage may vary!

Hu

Rodney Morris also claims he watch cueball. He says Efren do it too but i am not too sure about it.
I am watching cueball last most of the time. Or i am locked on visual "spot" or "line" in my aiming line. I try keep OB in my vision somewhere but i wont look it. Week ago I played Finnish Kaisa ranking event. Game with super tough pockets on 11ft table(67mm balls and 70mm pockets). I was really focusing where i hit to cueball and ended up playing super solid tournament and won it. Won 2 world champs in row to reach final where i did beat current ranking n.1 who is super strong 17.y old player who is ranking n.1 in 4 different games currently, including Russian Pyramid.
I don´t look object ball because i don´t look spots from ball or edges. I just try guess(or calculate) my aiming line based of cut angle. I try get exact number like in axample 42 degree cut. I know 42 degree is really close to 1/4 ball width off from edge of ball. which is about 14mm. Then i try see line 14mm off from ball and lock down to that line. Hard to explain with my mediocre English skills anyway.
I know from experience that my method not work with anyone and I can "see" from pros who is using similar stuff and claim that Filler does.

When mastered should be simple.
1. Guess cut angle that shot have.
2. think how spin end deflection of the shot gonna affect the shot. Note : also speed must consider coz curves on balls.
3. See what aiming line on table surface gives u cut angle u need.
4. line up and lock down to that aiming line.
5. Feel the shot. This is phase i look ob. If it wont feel right get up and pick adjusted aiming line. If shot feels good move on to next one. Note: our feel is sometimes wrong and can be corrected with proper kind of practice. I use mechanical overdrive drills to overcome my feel so i can accept that my feel was wrong earlier.
6. Focus shifts to tip pinpoint position.
7. Fire. it is easier to shoot straight when u look straight line in front that u try to hit. Cue tend to follow that line easier then.
7. analyze shot. did u hit aiming line that u intended? if u did and ball was missed then u know your estimate of angle was wrong.

I don´t try to tell people that my method is better than others but this what i came up after i had 7 years no playing and started thinking how snooker pros so accurate every day. Half ball cut is big part of learning my way. I am still improving at age of 43 and running centuries in snooker and 14.1.
Only few players(really) picked up what i teach but they came from bangers to solid b+ players fast and they were near 50´s.
Also my little sister came back to pool after 24 years off from it. I started to coach her whenever i visit her town. She elected 1st to national team of women in 2020 European Champs. Unlucky. That competition never came due Corona.

My little sister doing Dr Daves spot shot challenge. :thumbup: (about 4min long)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUg1rTJz9yw&t=

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Thanks for posting this.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=149622

Well the first time I hear of "perfect Aiming was 2009, guess who was giving lesson in Phoenix?

Now 11 years later the sales pitch continues, I have not seen any of new World Class Play say, "perfect amiming" was a big help moving me from bander to World Class Pro.

One of the VERY BEST POOL INSTRUCTORS lives a few miles from me. Jerry Brieseth, think is right spelling. Also Jerry is like Scott Lee, and Jack Justis real deal great people.

IMHO if you master what Jerry tranches in his basic DVD that retail under $20.00, you will be at least short stop speed.

Are the people who are the top Pool Pro's use Geno's System, if so they are not endorsing it. Would think if they were they would be talking it up.

Just thing to think on.

 

[The_JV]

I don't bother arguing with people that think they look at the object ball last but if you watch at the pool hall, watch video of the pro's too, it is very common for people who say they look at the object ball last to have their eyes drift to the cue ball as the stick starts forward to hit the cue ball.

Interesting... I always tend to give people the benefit of doubt, so if they say they aim in whatever fashion, I believe them unless proven otherwise.

This thread made me curious so I went down to the table and hit some balls. Here's my newly obtained insight....:

Without imposing any purposeful control, my eyes tend to dart back and forth rapidly between the CB and OB. Where they are as I stroke the shot is believe it or not, more often than not, in transition from CB to OB. You could argue that means I'm CB last, but I believe the transition to OB starts before contact. I'll let those reading make up my mind for me.

If I force my focus on the OB and prevent to rapid transition, I tend to make just as many balls (small sample size). However, I do feel uncomfortable. Like I'm shooting the CB a little blind. Same sensation I get when I try to do that Tom Cruize Color of Money shot.

If I force my focus on the CB and again prevent my normal rapid transition, I tend to make just as many balls, (again small sample size). This feels far more comfortable though, and based on the difficulty of the cut I may get a twinge of anxiety on if I'm on my shooting line.

Then I went back to my old method of looking at any spot along the cue ball's path or the extended path it would take if it didn't hit the object ball or rail. Some places are awkward for me to look so if I am staring straight down at the cloth I am usually fine with that too.

This is how I was taught and what I used to do back in my snooker days. Find your line, place back foot on line, cue stick follows said line, shoot CB down line. I still do the bulk of that when I play pool. However I believe my eyes are now playing tricks on me now, (age). As Gene pointed out to me. When I cut to the right my aim appears off. Even though I have done the snooker "follow the line" fundamentals. These days I tend to hunt for my aim when cutting to the right, and will alter my shooting path by feel. None of it appears correct, but by years of trial and error I can correct for my skewed vision. I think that's why I think I'm looking at the OB last. I spent more time altering shooting path based on contact point more than anything else.

Maybe I'll give the good olde' snooker aiming methodology another try. I think I went away from it because of all the spin I tend to shoot with. Snooker being more about stun than anything else.

 

[Poolmanis]

This is how I was taught and what I used to do back in my snooker days. Find your line, place back foot on line, cue stick follows said line, shoot CB down line.

When i was 14 and started playing my town had no any good players and not even 9ft table. So i learned all by myself. I ordered books, videos and magazines for instructional stuff. I am happy that you had such good starting coaching.

 

[The_JV]

When i was 14 and started playing my town had no any good players and not even 9ft table. So i learned all by myself. I ordered books, videos and magazines for instructional stuff. I am happy that you had such good starting coaching.

I started playing when I was 13 (highschool), and was horrible in terms of fundamentals. Made it up as I went along, and actually made an effort not to emulate the other players in my hall. This made for a horrible bridge and stance. I think I employed the "swing and hope" technique most of the time.

Wasn't until I left that seedy smoke filled basement level pool hall and started playing in the more "proper" snooker rooms, that a kind top player helped me out. I think it was out of pity more than anything else. I was just so bad fundamentally but still managed to play somewhat that he just had to improve my game so he didn't have to watch the train wreck anymore...lol

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Now, having said all of this, I have tried 10,000 times over the years to look at the OB last. Cant do it. Miss a mile. I am CB last all the way.

Now, having said that, I am going down to the table and work on looking at the OB last. But I know what I will find out - that it doesnt work for me.

And when people say "The cue goes where the eyes go".....all I can say is that anyone that believes that needs their head examined.

r/DCP

FYI,

I went down to the table yesterday. Decided to try looking at the OB last. Broke a rack, and the first shot I had was somewhat on the easy side. Missed a half mile.

r/DCP

 

[The_JV]

FYI,

I went down to the table yesterday. Decided to try looking at the OB last. Broke a rack, and the first shot I had was somewhat on the easy side. Missed a half mile.

r/DCP

You're assuming you would have made it otherwise

 

[cookie man]

@ JV & Cookie Man

I make no claims of GMs character or personality; only that he doesn't offer any information. The reviews, however sincere, are equally unsubstantiated.

He has though, maligned and dismissed methods contrary to his approach as ineffective.

Gist is only customers get info. ie. (as if this needs pointing out), the thread is spam. Until he can detail what he is selling, spam is all it is.

Then report it if that's how you feel.
By the way, Gene is an instructor with good information, and that seems to upset you because you can't get the info for free. Would you do your job and not get paid?

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I’m not a qualified pool instructor, far from it, but the same applies to firearms training, in which I am highly qualified. Only about 30% of the population is cross dominant. There’s a lot more to people who can’t/don’t improve, than that. Mostly revolving around desire and effort..

Well I know my Dominant Eye is the Right One, I do everything pretty much Lefthand. The only exception is shooting Rifles, and Shotguns.

The funny thing is before I learn about Dominant Eye, I had been competing for year in the NRA Junior Marksmenship Program, went up the rating ranks, earn all the patches, Right Handed. Guess it just how I leand to shoot a .22 with my Right Handed goof.

Wonder if I could have been better, hand I started out as a Left Handed Shooter, will never know, as Right Handed worked out.

Clint Eastwood in the Movie Heartbreak Ridge, mentioned "improvising, adapting, and overcoming. That what people do who are different, not handicapped.


Just had another thought if Geno is selling something be it a Skype Lession, Person Lessions, or DVD, how about posting this in the For Sale Section like NORMAL people have too?. JMHO

 

[straightline]

Then report it if that's how you feel.
By the way, Gene is an instructor with good information, and that seems to upset you because you can't get the info for free. Would you do your job and not get paid?

You guys and your jock logic. Notice there's now a string of ideas going on. How's Cybernetic Targeting Enigma coming?

 

[KRJ]

Well, I'll tell ya a story about cue ball last, two really. First seems like Ralf Souquet makes it work OK. Best I recall he was ranked #1 in the world for a few years. Just a snip:

Ralf Souquet (/ s uː ˈ k eɪ / soo-KAY; born 29 November 1968 in Eschweiler) is a German professional pool player. His nickname is "The Kaiser". Since 1981, he has won more than 500 tournament titles, including 41 German Championship titles and 34 European Pool Championships titles. Souquet is a two time world champion, winning the 2008 WPA World Eight-ball Championship, and 1996 WPA World ...



I have found that when I haven't been playing for awhile I hit about a sixteenth of an inch high left of where I mean to. Consistently, I had suspected I might be all over the place but no, dead on that spot, just the wrong spot. Inquiring minds want to know and all of that so one day at the world's pool hall I started flagging down players. Tried a few other places too. Maybe twenty guys total, from bangers to shortstops. I didn't tell them what I was testing, just set up a pretty easy cut, cue ball sixteen to eighteen inches out from the end rail, the object ball about the same distance from the corner pocket and about a half ball cut. I found that only two of the guys hit the cue ball exactly where they intended to. Both were bangers, both looked at the cue ball last!

I look at anything or nothing last. Doesn't matter once I have lined up the shot. I am an equal opportunity misser and maker!

Hu

Hi, I don’t see where Ralph looks at cb last?

Also, the fact that out of 20 players, only two looked at cb last, and guess what..... those two were the bangers of the group.... Gonna stay that way for a long time I suspect.

 

[KRJ]

Well Genomachino came to AZB years ago, hyping his "Perfect Aiming System" & DVD by the same name.

Hawking his $80.00 CD. If the man was some World Class player he would be a sponsored player. Non of the places like Pool Dawg, Muellers, Seberts, etc, have his "Perfect Aiming DVD" in their inventory for sale. Wonder why if it the holly grail?

Like I said before I have actually view the DVD, returned it to it owner, Fast Larry of Lawrenceville, GA. Say nothing that personally excited me.

Aiming or perfect aiming is only one small part of a person arsenal of tools to play pool. If you can not hit a ball straight down the length of a 9 foot table, and get it to roll back in a straight line, you got problems, and there are a lot of other, if's that are all skills one must master to become a better player.

Genomachino is a pretty good salesman, I expect he could make a good living selling Jewelery, Cars, or Hime Improvements. JMHO

More nonsense from you.... the fact you diss Geno should tell everyone else what side to get on here. Actually, he could make a living just playing against you. Of course, the pattern seems to be bangers and other low rank players love showing up here to discuss their own world experience, or lack thereof. Toning like being stubborn from trying to learn something, and god forbid Geno should get compensated for his coaching skills like every other sport on the planet.

 

[megatron69]

IME, there are three main obstacles for novice players trying to take the next step.

One, never taking the time to learn and then building a foundation upon sound fundamentals in both mechanics and technique.

Two, only practicing things they want to practice, or practicing too infrequently.

Three, not practicing under real game stress.

Playing league (also when I used to play tournaments regularly), I've seen a lot of novice players every year for the last 35 years or so, and every time, nearly every single one of them suffers from a combination of the above. And by the time I see them, they've been dealing with their frustrations for quite some time.

Compounding their discouragement is the idea that the solution to their problems is some kind of quick fix, like "if I just buy this new stick by such-and-such company," or "I just need that glove," or whatever nonsense someone filled their heads with in the past.

 

[straightline]

IME, there are three main obstacles for novice players trying to take the next step.

One, never taking the time to learn and then building a foundation upon sound fundamentals in both mechanics and technique.

Two, only practicing things they want to practice, or practicing too infrequently.

Three, not practicing under real game stress.

Playing league (also when I used to play tournaments regularly), I've seen a lot of novice players every year for the last 35 years or so, and every time, nearly every single one of them suffers from a combination of the above. And by the time I see them, they've been dealing with their frustrations for quite some time.

Compounding their discouragement is the idea that the solution to their problems is some kind of quick fix, like "if I just buy this new stick by such-and-such company," or "I just need that glove," or whatever nonsense someone filled their heads with in the past.

Good points. Except maybe stress. Not into that. That kind of experience is the biggest source of compromise and bad decisions. (see death row)

To be sure, learn to fade the pressure but seriously, look inside for what motivates you.

 

[u12armresl]

There you have it everyone, lock the thread.
We have the real answer from a scholar of the game.

FYI,

I went down to the table yesterday. Decided to try looking at the OB last. Broke a rack, and the first shot I had was somewhat on the easy side. Missed a half mile.

r/DCP