The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm 6 blocks from Jimmy's right now.

I’ve been to Minneapolis several times during football season. I’ve always gone to Jimmy’s for action. Is that where you live? If it is sorry I missed you, I always up for a lesson to expand my knowledge.

I'm doing personal lessons and I'm doing lessons on skype. Actually the skype works just as well as being there in person. The camera shows it all.

If you ever get back here again, just say my name and someone will get ahold of me in minutes.

Thanks for the interest and hope you get back here soon...
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have resisted posting in this thread, but this is the biggest BS post in this entire thread. Geno, you have no formal training in teaching anybody anything...and as such, have no legitimacy in talking about other REAL instructors. The truth is that dominant eye does not play a serious role in shooting pool...never has. 3000 lessons (x $200)? Hell, you should have retired long ago to spend all your money! LOL Like I told you years ago, if you just said "this works great for some players", I would have no issue with you...but the "every lesson is a home run", and )"I'm the only one who knows anything about this" comments are just baloney! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee ~ does undestand and teaches the science behind eye dominance
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour


Man, if you could just get some of the aiming system proponents to say those words there might finally be peace in the valley.

Lou Figueroa
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is not an aiming system....

Man, if you could just get some of the aiming system proponents to say those words there might finally be peace in the valley.

Lou Figueroa

Hi again Lou, What I teach is not really an aiming system. Aiming systems are regimental and numbers. Fractional aiming , 90 90 and many more. What I teach is not an aiming system. I didn't understand how much it was not an aiming system until I got into the deeper depths of how this effects our pool games.

When I met you in Cahokia, Ill way back in around 2011 I think. I just knew the tip of the iceberg on this. It took me another 8 years of teaching, seeing things, and finding how to fix some real visual problems we all face trying to play at that higher level.

There was no blueprint to follow or nobody to learn this from. I talked to some of the top teachers in the country with very little success. Unchartered territory. But when I would talk to some instructors they thought they knew about this, limited to knowing we have a dominant eye and favoring it was the limit.

Sometimes I would try to teach it to someone that taught, soon they were trying to teach me some stuff I already knew. they had no idea how important this was to a player's game. Usually, I would just quit trying to show them but I knew by then they had no clue how this works.

The latest, new item, in the eye-ology discovery, was just 6 months ago. I had this problem and I saw that many other players had this problem also. They have trouble getting right or left English on the cue ball. One way they get plenty, the other way they think they are getting enough but they are not. Finally figured out the dominant eye holds the key to fixing this. Once I showed this to a player they understood it quickly and then I could show them how to fix it. This was huge. Pretty much everyone has this problem unless they aim under one eye like a gun. But that's another whole story all together. There is no info on this at all. They might understand there is a problem but don't know what the fix is. And it's not, just hit a million balls.

The good news is I was stubborn enough to run around the country teaching and learning, trying to help players wherever I went.

The things I can show a player now are off the charts. There are usually about 5 or 6, You got to be kidding moments, with each lesson I do now.

I wish I knew what I know now when we met Lou.

It would have been fun to share some of these things. But back then the knowledge was limited.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I bought Geno's DVD early on, when did he start it, 2008 maybe? I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, and said that here at the time (completely unsolicited). It felt like a night and difference, in like 5 minutes. I thought I might really become a player after getting my head and eyes in the correct spot. I also met him at DCC a couple years later and he gave me some in person tuneups.

The thing is, in all those years, I still shoot about the same. I didn't change the pecking order in the pool room.

One thing I will say about Geno, that maybe other people hate on, is his enthusiasm. Reading his posts and listening to him you "want" to get on the table and hit some balls and try it. I personally like that a lot. I don't think its a scam of his, I think he is genuinely super enthusiastic. I just watched Tommy Kennedy vs Archer match on Youtube, and Geno is like Kennedy. Just extremely enthusiastic about pool and life.

So people are starting to cut him up in this thread, but Geno will probably respond to them with enthusiasm, and never cut them up back.

I think its the same for any training method, really. Whether its a head/eye alignment system like Geno's, or stroke grooving, or elbow vs no elbow drop, etc etc etc. You might improve a hair, or think you will improve a lot after the initial experience, but a couple years later, you are in the same pecking order at the local pool room.

Put me down for the fundamental reason players reach a certain level "and stay there" is.... Genetics:)

Nature over nurture:)

I also find it hilarious that people say there is a shorter learning curve if you do xyz as compared to hitting tons of balls for hours per day "like the pros do". Every single pro that has ever existed, everyone in their local room knew they were going to be a player in a few months of picking up a cue. Pros don't become better because the put in more time, more practice, etc. The rate of their improvement is 10x the normal player. Then too, the pro will plateau after a few years, just like the intermediate player. The difference is their genetic propensity to control that stick is much higher. Not some aiming system. Or a stance. Or a bridge. Or a still elbow.

Carry on:)
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I remember you my friend and appreciate the kind words.

I bought Geno's DVD early on, when did he start it, 2008 maybe? I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, and said that here at the time (completely unsolicited). It felt like a night and difference, in like 5 minutes. I thought I might really become a player after getting my head and eyes in the correct spot. I also met him at DCC a couple years later and he gave me some in person tuneups.

The thing is, in all those years, I still shoot about the same. I didn't change the pecking order in the pool room.

One thing I will say about Geno, that maybe other people hate on, is his enthusiasm. Reading his posts and listening to him you "want" to get on the table and hit some balls and try it. I personally like that a lot. I don't think its a scam of his, I think he is genuinely super enthusiastic. I just watched Tommy Kennedy vs Archer match on Youtube, and Geno is like Kennedy. Just extremely enthusiastic about pool and life.

So people are starting to cut him up in this thread, but Geno will probably respond to them with enthusiasm, and never cut them up back.

I think its the same for any training method, really. Whether its a head/eye alignment system like Geno's, or stroke grooving, or elbow vs no elbow drop, etc etc etc. You might improve a hair, or think you will improve a lot after the initial experience, but a couple years later, you are in the same pecking order at the local pool room.

Put me down for the fundamental reason players reach a certain level "and stay there" is.... Genetics:)

Nature over nurture:)

I also find it hilarious that people say there is a shorter learning curve if you do xyz as compared to hitting tons of balls for hours per day "like the pros do". Every single pro that has ever existed, everyone in their local room knew they were going to be a player in a few months of picking up a cue. Pros don't become better because the put in more time, more practice, etc. The rate of their improvement is 10x the normal player. Then too, the pro will plateau after a few years, just like the intermediate player. The difference is their genetic propensity to control that stick is much higher. Not some aiming system. Or a stance. Or a bridge. Or a still elbow.

Carry on:)

I want to make you an offer. I would like to do a free skype lesson with you my friend. Just need to be by a table and have your phone set up so I can see. Head phone are a must if your in a pool room.

I will show you some of the best info in the world. I have learned so much since way back when. These things will make the game so much more fun. Hope you accept my offer.

Looking forward to it .
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Geno I’ll take your offer, and I’ll pay you for the lesson refresh as well. It will be a bit because my table is full of my tax papers I have to finish and file for year 2017 and 2018! I’ll pm you soon.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
It looks to me that this thread is coming down to the following:

Dominant Eye vs The Mother Drills

Cant wait to see who wins.

r/DCP




I think practice what you do not do well, and if you do you will improve.

If Pool or Golf was simple to master, we would all play like Tiger Woods, or Efrin Reyes.

Reason both are top player, is effort put into game.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think practice what you do not do well, and if you do you will improve.

If Pool or Golf was simple to master, we would all play like Tiger Woods, or Efrin Reyes.

Reason both are top player, is effort put into game.

Right.... (sarcasm). How come Oscar is no Shane? Grew up with a top pro as a coach. How come Tony Roberto is no Oscar? How come Corey became a legit pro at age 16, when he picked up a cue for the first time in his life at age 14, (in my home pool room Drexeline Billiards in Philly Burbs). How come Corey is no Busty? How come I am not your speed? (I know you play good). How come you are not Tony Roberto speed. The list goes on. Every one of these players, me and you included, accelerated at different rates from the moment we picked up a cue. If everyone was equal, we'd all be playing like Efren. Practice time had nothing to do with it. Practice method had nothing to do with it. Fundamentals had nothing to do with it.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
To Geno, I PM'd you, and look forward to a refresh.

Here is something you can think about before our lesson. This shot I have lots of trouble with. Cutting to the left, where I have to bridge on the rail, and my stick is at a very shallow angle to the rail. I feel very, very uncomfortable behind this shot. It just never looks right. Shooting the exact shot from the other side of the table (cutting it to the right, I have zero issues, and feel completely confident. Based on my prior lessons with you, I do believe it has something to do with my head position. But I haven't been able to nail it. Anyway, I look forward to discussing with you in person (via video).

IMG_0195.jpeg
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
Right.... (sarcasm). How come Oscar is no Shane? Grew up with a top pro as a coach. How come Tony Roberto is no Oscar? How come Corey became a legit pro at age 16, when he picked up a cue for the first time in his life at age 14, (in my home pool room Drexeline Billiards in Philly Burbs). How come Corey is no Busty? How come I am not your speed? (I know you play good). How come you are not Tony Roberto speed. The list goes on. Every one of these players, me and you included, accelerated at different rates from the moment we picked up a cue. If everyone was equal, we'd all be playing like Efren. Practice time had nothing to do with it. Practice method had nothing to do with it. Fundamentals had nothing to do with it.

I say their are two kind of people Talker, and Doers. The doers are the one who actually work on getting better, or being successful at something.

Most people who do great at any sport work their butts off practing, working with instructors, and are student of the game. They watch great players, and copy their trick & techniques.

Well if you can not hit a pool ball in a straight line, you will never be good at Pool.

I think every shot has maybe 40 or 50 things to factor into the shot, so the object ball goes in, and the cue ball ends up where you want it.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just this info tells me your story.

To Geno, I PM'd you, and look forward to a refresh.

Here is something you can think about before our lesson. This shot I have lots of trouble with. Cutting to the left, where I have to bridge on the rail, and my stick is at a very shallow angle to the rail. I feel very, very uncomfortable behind this shot. It just never looks right. Shooting the exact shot from the other side of the table (cutting it to the right, I have zero issues, and feel completely confident. Based on my prior lessons with you, I do believe it has something to do with my head position. But I haven't been able to nail it. Anyway, I look forward to discussing with you in person (via video).

View attachment 552050

Once we get done this shot will be as easy as the other way. Remember I said this. You are right eye dominant.

You also have trouble putting low left English on the ball and might not even understand you do.

Low right English is real easy.

When we get done you will understand why and how to correct the problem.

Here's the deal. A player can hit a million balls and do drill until they are blue in the face and still not feel the shot is comfortable. It's called repetition. Just like chopping wood. Repetition.

OR:::::::: You can learn where everything has to be manually to see the shot as good as humanly possible. Eyes, stance and stroke. Repetition is the secret but repetition not knowing where everything needs to be takes a long time. The players that get there fast just got there naturally from doing it over and over and over. Some of us never get to the better position so we are stuck at the same level according to how good we got there naturally.

Everyone can aim a pool shot as good as everyone else and see it great if everything is lined up correctly. That's why they have golf teachers, hitting coaches. tennis coaches, football coaches, basketball coaches.

But here we are. Pool players and we think we can just get down there and figure it out. Obviously that only works with some. And the some that do it pretty good really excel when they learn the whole story.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi again Lou, What I teach is not really an aiming system. Aiming systems are regimental and numbers. Fractional aiming , 90 90 and many more. What I teach is not an aiming system. I didn't understand how much it was not an aiming system until I got into the deeper depths of how this effects our pool games.

When I met you in Cahokia, Ill way back in around 2011 I think. I just knew the tip of the iceberg on this. It took me another 8 years of teaching, seeing things, and finding how to fix some real visual problems we all face trying to play at that higher level.

There was no blueprint to follow or nobody to learn this from. I talked to some of the top teachers in the country with very little success. Unchartered territory. But when I would talk to some instructors they thought they knew about this, limited to knowing we have a dominant eye and favoring it was the limit.

Sometimes I would try to teach it to someone that taught, soon they were trying to teach me some stuff I already knew. they had no idea how important this was to a player's game. Usually, I would just quit trying to show them but I knew by then they had no clue how this works.

The latest, new item, in the eye-ology discovery, was just 6 months ago. I had this problem and I saw that many other players had this problem also. They have trouble getting right or left English on the cue ball. One way they get plenty, the other way they think they are getting enough but they are not. Finally figured out the dominant eye holds the key to fixing this. Once I showed this to a player they understood it quickly and then I could show them how to fix it. This was huge. Pretty much everyone has this problem unless they aim under one eye like a gun. But that's another whole story all together. There is no info on this at all. They might understand there is a problem but don't know what the fix is. And it's not, just hit a million balls.

The good news is I was stubborn enough to run around the country teaching and learning, trying to help players wherever I went.

The things I can show a player now are off the charts. There are usually about 5 or 6, You got to be kidding moments, with each lesson I do now.

I wish I knew what I know now when we met Lou.

It would have been fun to share some of these things. But back then the knowledge was limited.


Geno, I know you're not teaching an aiming system.

I just thought Scott's point could be applied more broadly. I also think what you teach could help a lot of players. If you're ever thisaway I'd be interested in discussing it further.

Lou Figueroa
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Skype spmeday maybe...

Geno, I know you're not teaching an aiming system.

I just thought Scott's point could be applied more broadly. I also think what you teach could help a lot of players. If you're ever thisaway I'd be interested in discussing it further.

Lou Figueroa

At the level you play at you would grasp this in a heart beat, Not only for yourself but you could help some other young players. You got that nice smooth stroke and looks so natural. Others not so fortunate.

It would be fun to get your full input my friend. Happy Forth of July. Stay safe.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Drills work alot better if you got the sights on the gun straight.

It looks to me that this thread is coming down to the following:

Dominant Eye vs The Mother Drills

Cant wait to see who wins.


And by the way, does this thread look familiar?
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=260516


r/DCP

It's not just about the eyes but coordinating the stance , the stroke also. You can't change one without the others being affected. The results I get with students is off the charts. Everything i show them they can see that it is working right away. I'm doing a skype lesson with an AZer that bought my video 10 years ago. He will be pretty excited when we get done. He will totally understand how all this works and will be able to apply it. I'm excited for him to say the least. I know how much he loves pool.
 

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks Gene for the thread, and now for my short story.

I kinda play ok for a wannabe but I’m always looking to improve. Lately I’ve been struggling and dog way to many shots. So today I decided to just practice. I miss so many straight in shots, and just can’t really figure it out. After reading this thread I remember talking with you about 8 or 10 year ago about sighting and dominate eye stuff.

I starting adjusting my head alignment and started making a higher percentage of shots and less side spin. I’ll play around with it some more and see if it at least fixes some of my problems. If football season ever kicks off maybe I’ll get a trip to Minneapolis and pay you a visit.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Geno and I had a Skype call today. Right off the bat I will say he wore me out. That old guy has tons of energy. We were on the call for 2 hrs 45 min, and he was heading to play in a tourney right after.

This is my 3rd "personalized" interaction with Gene. The first was I bought his DVD I think in 2010. I immediately noticed a big improvement in my shot confidence, and felt like I couldn't miss "some shots, when they looked right".

The second was in Tunica, at the Southern classic. I guess that was about 2013, it all blends together now. It was right after a match of his. I introduced myself and he spent about an hour with me in person on a table there.

The third was today via Skype.

The guy loves pool, loves to play, loves to teach, and loves to see players improve.

Now, I've been using his system for the past 10 years, but you guys know how it is, sometimes you lose focus, sometimes you don't feel like playing for a while, sometimes you forget, etc.

Today Geno helped me fine tune what I was doing with my head position. BTW, his system is about getting your head/eyes in the best place so the shot looks "on". It doesn't tell you where to hit, how much spin to put, how to compensate for throw, English, squirt, etc. All those things you don't have to relearn. Its literally moving your head around a specific way until your eyes see the shot right. So all of your prior knowledge transfers right over. When your eyes/head are in that right place, it really feels like you can't miss. When its not in that place, for me anyway, it feels almost like I'm looking at something cross-eyed. For me, this cross-eyed sensation was only happening on cuts to the left.

After the lesson I played about 5 hours. I really felt like I was going to beat the 9 ball ghost and wanted to post a video beating it. (I beat it about twice per year, that is my speed...). Well, the best I could do was losing 4-7, and I had a few sets I was blanked. So the lesson didn't immediately translate to a better ghost win. But, within the sets, there was many shots that just felt amazingly on. First, the straight in shot. I wasn't getting even 1/4" of side to side movement of the CB after making the shot. It really felt aligned. This also transferred to the break. I was braeaking very hard, and really hitting them full, and taking care of the CB. Of course not every break, but definitly much better breaks than last week.

The left hand cut shots still felt a touch weaker than right hand cuts, but they were much stronger than before the lesson.

I recorded the lesson (with Geno's permission). I'm going to review it again later. I hope to put a winning ghost set up for you guys in the next few days as well.

Shots where I could see the pocket I felt my confidence was way higher, in both left and right directions. Blind shots I don't think improved any. Geno showed me a few tricks on those, but I have not worked on them yet. I was so excited I just wanted to play the ghost and beat it. ha ha.

Anyway sorry for all the rambling, I'm tired and don't feel like organizing my thoughts better.

I'd recommend anyone give Geno a call though. Some players probably already have their head in the right place. But if you don't, and then you learn a few of Geno's tricks to get it there, it may really help your confidence in striking the ball. And if you ever feel "cross eyed, or blurry" on a shot, you definitely don't have your head in the right place.

Now anyone who's read my posts over the years knows I'm a feel player, I don't believe in aiming systems, and I believe strongly in nature over nurture. I don't take any of that back. However, getting the head in the right position sure feels like it may help me. Either that, or its a jam-up placebo!
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My eyes, like most, are unbalanced besides mono dominant. To me, BFD. If you can see the layout clearly, what's the issue with discovering where the stick goes? Further, indulging perceptual distortion will require biasing your entire stance accordingly. It's also redundant in a way to get down and then re-aim to suit your perception.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I literally rolled out of bed this morning to play the ghost. No practice, the first shot was the break. I lost 7-0. But, I played out the racks where I missed anyway. The balls were generally going in super clean. I think I rubbed the rail on the way in maybe 1 time in the whole set. I was really hitting them well (for me). Several of the missed shots were due to throw or squirt where I didn't adjust enough. There were also a few shots that were super uncomfortable before, but now felt good. The break was not like yesterday, I lost the CB on almost every break. But the other shots felt really on.

I have the video below. Its sped 3x, 12 min long. Its fast enough I won't get bored watching it, but slow enough you can see I was striking the ball well, and the balls were going in the pockets very cleanly. I'll play more this week and still hope to post a winning ghost to 7 set.

Video:
https://youtu.be/L_R5CQH_Yq4
 

lakeman77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did a Skype session with Gene. He is an excellent teacher. My game improved noticeably.
IMO, Gene shouldn't call it Perfect Aim. AIM word out. It really has little to do with aiming. It's all about seeing. Give it a try, it's fun.
 
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