The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

RCnotcola

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It was a challenge match here in the twin cities. He beat a very good player. Tin Man's post above talks about that match
 

Tin Man

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Kind of like in the wild west. If you would jump on a buffalo with a knife and stick it's neck trying to stop it and you get blood in your eye your would hardly notice that you could not see out of that eye.

Gene, you're the man, no taking that away. Nevertheless this may the strangest analogy I've ever heard. If a single pool player related to that I am worried about our community! ;)
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
I'm left eye dominant so I shoot a little side arm.
If I put my right eye over the shaft I cant make a ball.
Been like that my whole life.
We probably did meet in 2009 if you came to Felt or Hanks.

I am Right Eye Dominate do everything Left Handed except, Shoot Rifle & Shot Gun. Can Shoot a Pistol almost as good off hand as strong hand, because I practice.

In life I have met many people who are special, not handicapped. Some say "different", Tthey get it done because they improvise, adapt, and overcome.

There is a fellow I served with in the USMC lost a leg, there is a book about his life. One Tought Marine, aka USMC Master Sqt, Don Hamblen, he could do more with one good leg then many with two good legs.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2202343.One_Tough_Marine

Some people who should not do, and they do because they are different between the ears. Mind solves problems, and some how they are always the winner.
 
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WildWing

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Lower level players don't have enough natural talent, no matter what lessons they get, how much they practice, etc. Sorry for the truth, but it's the truth.

All the best,
WW
 

Tin Man

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how are you so sure?

Lower level players don't have enough natural talent, no matter what lessons they get, how much they practice, etc. Sorry for the truth, but it's the truth.

All the best,
WW

How are you so sure?

Name a player that has played 10 hours a day for years, then played on the pro tour for another handful of years, that hasn't played high level pool. Not "#1 in the world", but high level. Able to win local tournaments and compete in pro events.

There are no examples of this. People that put in the time get the results. Now you might not be able to put in that much time, or you might waste the time you put in, but it's not talent holding you back. And you can put in less time and still get great results if you no where to put it.

I am tired of people being so sure other people can't do something. I did it. I am proof it can be done. And if you think I was naturally talented you haven't seen me play, don't know my story, and don't know what I've put in.

Short story, I don't concur.
 

Tin Man

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I'll add one more thing about the talent vs hard work debate. When it comes to facts, fargo rate doesn't matter. If a player thinks throw doesn't exist that's wrong regardless of if he plays good, and if a player misses too much that doesn't mean he isn't right.

But things like this are OPINIONS. They are BELIEFS. These are ways we get to decide how we look at the world. And I DO think it matters what level of players believe different things.

I would bet the vast majority of top players believe in hard work. The vast majority of players that aren't successful blame talent.

I don't believe talent is correct, at least not at our level. Maybe determining #1 and #10. Maybe you could call the imperceptible differences talent. And yes, you need eyes to play pool. But I believe anyone can learn to run 10 ball racks.

But EVEN IF I'M WRONG...believing this stuff doesn't help you play great pool. It may help console you if you give up on yourself, but it's not the path to improvement and greatness.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I am tired of people being so sure other people can't do something. I did it. I am proof it can be done. And if you think I was naturally talented you haven't seen me play, don't know my story, and don't know what I've put in.

I've highlighted the portion that also applies to me... I don't consider myself naturally talented. I know a couple that are. I have put ridiculous hours into playing the game. Not necessarily practicing, but grinding it out against strong opposition. Those without heaps of natural talent can play this game and play it very well. Just takes more effort to get there...
 

WildWing

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How are you so sure?

Name a player that has played 10 hours a day for years, then played on the pro tour for another handful of years, that hasn't played high level pool. Not "#1 in the world", but high level. Able to win local tournaments and compete in pro events.

Because I've seen it so often. Players playing a lot, getting lessons, and not getting much better. We're not talking high level local tournament winners here, sport. We're talking lower level players, that was the subject. No matter what, they don't improve very much.

All the best,
WW
 

Bob Jewett

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... Those without heaps of natural talent can play this game and play it very well. Just takes more effort to get there...
Would it be fair to say that you have a talent for sticking to it and doing hard work?
 

PRED

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WW is dead on. You can have the heart of a champion but not ever win anything at pool. Taking lessons to go from banger to champion is a fools errand.
 

Tin Man

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The people I have seen stall out haven't done the things I believe they need to do to improve. It would be like someone that didn't know how a car works. If some cars drove and others didn't those people would say "Hey, I don't know, some cars just don't work. They didn't have talent". Whereas a mechanic would understand why those cars don't work and would argue that with the right parts they could. Some see a cursed car. Others see a missing part and know what's missing.

When it comes to pool I am that mechanic. That is why I don't see a cap with talent. This game isn't mysterious or hit and miss. Where some people see players stuck, I see players doing it wrong. Not every car can win the Indy 500, but any car can be made to take you across the country.

In the end we all agree about one thing. Everyone has the opportunity to improve at pool. How much better they can get, how long it will take, what they'd have to do, what their limits would be, whether it's worth it or if we should be spending time elsewhere...that's for everyone to decide on their own. For me pool has purpose. Maybe that's talent. But we all get to walk our own path.
 

genomachino

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I just created a miracle at Two Stooges today.

WW is dead on. You can have the heart of a champion but not ever win anything at pool. Taking lessons to go from banger to champion is a fools errand.

The play probably improved a whole ball in about 2 hours. Stance was wrong, stroke was a little crooked and they weren't looking at the OB when they shot.

One lesson, great improvement.

Are they a champion now ? Not hardly but they are so happy to be able to see what is going on a little better.

And now they can actually get better with some work of course. But doing the same thing over and over again wrong wasn't helping at all.

Now all the hard work will not be wasted. They can now practice the correct things and make them repetitive.

Just like gold, bowling, tennis or any sport. There is the right way and there is the wrong way. If your going to be doing it allot it sure is nice to know the right way.
 

Bob Jewett

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Thank you for making it sound so honourable...

Truth is, I just really hate losing :p
I think having strong motivation -- like hating to lose -- is a huge factor. A common motivation you see in the children of champions who also become champions is that the family expects it from the child. Playing well is what the family does.
 

genomachino

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Pool is fun and addictive but if..........

I think having strong motivation -- like hating to lose -- is a huge factor. A common motivation you see in the children of champions who also become champions is that the family expects it from the child. Playing well is what the family does.

Pool is fun and addictive but if you really suck at it not so much.

I take every chance I can when I'm at the pool hall to show some unexpecting couple how to get the eyes right and the reactions are so rewarding. They are there trying to play pool and have hardly no chance to play good.

Many of these players that i teach i see them again and again and they always come back over and say hi.

We are all in our separate world as far as what we know about pool and what we can do. When we learn something that expands that world a little and makes it more fun we just want to do it more. We really don't know how much we don't know, we just know that we learned another thing that really helps us enjoy the game. And this dominant eye stuff is something that will help them forever.

They don't know how limited their knowledge is because they don't know at the time how much they don't know until they learn more .

But it is fun to make the ball go into the hole, have a few drinks and enjoy the night.

The fire is started but it's just a smolder at this time.

You just never know where the fire will start blazing away.

All of a sudden we have another pool plater added to our pool family.
 

genomachino

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Doing 2 skype lessons tomorrow....

Pool is fun and addictive but if you really suck at it not so much.

I take every chance I can when I'm at the pool hall to show some unexpecting couple how to get the eyes right and the reactions are so rewarding. They are there trying to play pool and have hardly no chance to play good.

Many of these players that i teach i see them again and again and they always come back over and say hi.

We are all in our separate world as far as what we know about pool and what we can do. When we learn something that expands that world a little and makes it more fun we just want to do it more. We really don't know how much we don't know, we just know that we learned another thing that really helps us enjoy the game. And this dominant eye stuff is something that will help them forever.

They don't know how limited their knowledge is because they don't know at the time how much they don't know until they learn more .

But it is fun to make the ball go into the hole, have a few drinks and enjoy the night.

The fire is started but it's just a smolder at this time.

You just never know where the fire will start blazing away.

All of a sudden we have another pool plater added to our pool family.

One is with a player from Kuwait. Another is from Mass. I'm going to ask them to share their results on here. Should be pretty interesting.

One has ocular vision but his friend is opposite eye dominant. And struggles with it knowing he is cross eye dominant. Knowing doesn't help. Need to know how to fix it.

Paul from Mass. The same way and really struggles with it.

I'm hoping, like I said, that I can get them on AZ and share what they think. Plus it would bring a couple more players to the best online pool site in the World. AZbilliards. :thumbup:
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
Another observation why people do poorly at many thing in life is.

It's easy to talk about accomplishing anything, to actually accomplish modest thing take work.

My good friend is a S.W.A.T. Medical with a Local Police Agency. Paramedic-Firefighter would works ever S.W,.A.T.

Many people want the job, few put the effort it take to be accepted to the team, and then the crazy, boring, repetitive work starts. Practice, preactice, so when the day comes, there chances of going home post call increase.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
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The biggest reason lower level players cannot improve is a lack of will to practice.

“The will to win is not nearly so important as the will to prepare to win.”
Vince Lombardi

Lou Figueroa
 
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