The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Wouldn't it be grand if it were only this simple?

Lower level players stay there for a variety of reasons. Not aiming straight is way down on the list. Particularly for 3s and 4s. They have no stance, they have no stroke, they have no pre shot routine, they have no plan. In short they have no solid fundamentals. And then they often have booze and dope to boot.

And they generally have no inclination to change any of that. The reason the people you help improve rapidly is partly because of what you show them about their eyes but mostly because they do have an inclination to get better which is why you met them to begin with.


Great post. Fixing an eye dominance issue won't help a whole lot without solid fundamentals and lots of practice, which appear to be the main things lacking for most low-skilled players. For those who actually want to work on improving their game, seeing the shots becomes important.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great reply here. Great insight.

Great post. Fixing an eye dominance issue won't help a whole lot without solid fundamentals and lots of practice, which appear to be the main things lacking for most low-skilled players. For those who actually want to work on improving their game, seeing the shots becomes important.

This works both ways. If the player can't even seem to get past first base they can't even see any light at the end of the tunnel. It's not even an option to try and play ball patterns or try to draw a ball to get some shape. They are trying so hard to just hit the ball. This is what the lower level player is going thru. There are different degrees of this trouble. it all depends on how far the player is from having the eyes right.

The 3 lessons I had yesterday were totally so different.

The 2 from Kuwait were like night and day. One had ocular vision, only aimed with the cue way outside the right eye and the other was just normal right eye dominant.

These 2 different eye problems are why teachers have so much trouble helping these players with their aim. just standing up there where you perceive a straight line just doesn't get it.

If they do not adjust their stance in the preshot to fit their eyes I cannot enhance their aiming ability. It just won't happen. There is no benefit for the player otherwise.

The higher level player gets great benefit from this because at their level a small improvement is huge.

The lower level player gets great benefit because they can't even get out of the gate. It's not even a thought for them to do anything that involves more skill unless they can get past a certain point. Seeing the shot correctly.

The player with normal vision from Kuwait had normal vision but thought he was left eye dominant. His friend with ocular vision also thought he was left eye dominant. it was very clear once we got rolling that he was absolutely right eye dominant. Unless this was first decided there was no was to enhance his sighting ability. Once this was done and his aiming ability was tweaked he could see the results immediately. Almost in disbelief. This happens all the time. More than not.

Then the lesson later in the day, Paul from Mass. He was left eye dominant. he has bought so many videos to try to get better and admitted that he hadn't even opened some of them up . He has a great gold crown 4 and had to move a beam in his basement to get this beauty the room it needed. Bottom line is he just loves pool and told me that it was embarrassing when someone would come over to play pool and they would kick his butt.

Once we got into the lesson and Paul looked like he was trying to back the ball when he was cutting it to the right. Soon Paul was seeing the shots correctly and could actually get in the preshot, coming down correctly and cutting balls to the right and the left consistently with a miss here and there. Now he can get better. now he can start learning the other parts of the game. He had no thought about playing shape or ball patterns or anything else advanced before because he had almost no chance to pocket the ball at hardly any angle.

This is when it is the most rewarding. Because of what i understand i can really really help these players like Paul get past first base. Then they can get to second and soon get to third. 6 months to a year Paul will be playing at such a higher level than before.

But why wouldn't he work hard to play once he can see what is going on? He is already addicted to the game. Once he can see what is going on there is no stopping these players. it's just a matter of how high he will soar.

This skype is the dead nutz for sure also. It's just like me being there if not better. With the camera I can see everything.

Anyway, I hope this makes it clear what is going on here. It's almost unbelievable but it's happening over and over.

Thanks for the great reply. :thumbup:
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not debatable.

This is NOT the 11th Commandment. It has been debated on here many times. Many players and instructors have said CB or OB last is personal preference.

r/DC

One way works well and the other way not so good. I really don't know how anyone can look at the cue ball only when they stroke and be accurate and consistent. Some players that were accidently looking at the cue ball only when they stroked really started playing much better when they started looking at the target, or should I say object ball.
 
Last edited:

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perfect Example last night....

This is NOT the 11th Commandment. It has been debated on here many times. Many players and instructors have said CB or OB last is personal preference.

r/DC

One way works well and the other way not so good. I really don't know how anyone can look at the cue ball only when they stroke and be accurate and consistent. Some players that were accidently looking at the cue ball only when they stroked really started playing much better when they started looking at the target, or should I say object ball.

Last night I practiced with a player that I am helping. Steve is an accomplished player that quit for about 8 years. Can't seem to get back to the level that he played for years. Steve is left handed and left eye dominant. Good thing but he was doing some other things that were really holding him back.

We were playing on a 9' diamond with 4 1/8 pockets. Can't slide the balls in. Steve was having trouble making more than a balls or 2 in a row. He was pretty frustrated. His problem was that all the things I had helped him with about a month ago were gone. Back doing what he was doing before.

Steve had been playing allot of billiards at the club and had developed a huge tendency to looking at the billiard ball only, like the cue ball , when he was trying to make a billiard. This eye pattern transferred over to the pool table bigtime.

Also even though Steve was same eye dominant I had already worked on him getting that eye in the most dominant position but it did him no good as far as making the shot if he was not looking at the object ball. He might as well have been closing his eye when he pulled the trigger. During the stroke if he is not looking up at the object ball he had no reference to hold the line. And there is no such thing as a perfect stroke that will not steer to the right or left accidently if your not looking at the object ball to hold that line. Otherwise all the good work that you have done is wasted as far as getting lined up properly.

If anyone doesn't think this is true just try this for yourself. Do this on a 9 footer. Get down and line up the shot. Get it lined up perfectly and have a friend hold a piece of cardboard in front of your shot so you can only see the cue ball. Count to 5 and then shot your shot. Then count to 10 and try it. You can make it sometimes but the tougher the shot it really gets stupid. This is what your dealing with looking at the cue ball when you shoot only.

Anyway, I caught Steve looking at the cueball when he shot. Now I had to work on the eye patterns because he had no idea what was the best way to look back and forth from the cue ball and object ball and then transition to the shot looking at the object ball only when he shot.

After whining and crying about how he couldn't do it and me telling him he needs to do a more than once or twice to make it work, the balls started to hit the center of the pocket. Not all but 3 or 4 in a row and then he would lay another egg.

Then I noticed Steve being a bigger guy, his body was getting in the way of his stroke. He had started choking up on the cue some so as he stroked he would run into his body stopping the stroke or he would rout his hand around his body at the end.

Solution was just hold back further on the cue. If Steve would have been taller an extension would be the solution.

There are so many things that make a player miss a shot. But the eyes have to be correct and work around that. A good instructor that understands the eyes and how these other things work can get results very quickly. If there is no improvement right away it probably isn't going to help. And probably not the right instructor. Because if it's going to work it will work right away and the player will be able to see it's better. They will still have to work at it but now they can actually improve and keep improving.

Anyway, by the time we were done last night Steve was a happy camper. What he was finally doing took allot of concentration because he had to think so much about what he was doing. Soon these things will become a habit but never forgotten. Because so many players drift back into these bad habits that they don't even know they were doing. It was just happening naturally.

When I hear naturally I think. Bowling. Did he naturally just start hitting a 200 average without any coaching. Baseball. Did he just start hitting homeruns without any coaching. Soccer, Did he just score 5 goals a game naturally. Golf. Does he hit par naturally. Archery. Does he just hit the bulls eye naturally.

On the same note here. When I played on the road and I heard a player in a pool hall that I just got to say I just feel the shot. it's just natural. I would think to myself. Cool !.... I'm going to play you some then and feel some of your naturally money.

On the funny note, the money isn't natural, he had to work for it. Money isn't natural either.

:thumbup:
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey Gene? I want to run something past you. Here goes:

One of the most idiotic things i have ever had an instructor tell me is that the cue goes where the eyes go. I was told if you are driving a motorcycle down the road and you look over into the ditch that the motorcycle is going to end up in that ditch.

Now that idiotic stuff is about, well, the most idiotic stuff i think i have ever heard. I've rode Honda's, Yamaha's, and had three Harley-Davidson motorcycles. My motorcycle would stay right down the middle of the road.

Do you believe in this statement, that the cue goes where the eyes go???

r/DCP
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's a little something to help explain.

Hey Gene? I want to run something past you. Here goes:

One of the most idiotic things i have ever had an instructor tell me is that the cue goes where the eyes go. I was told if you are driving a motorcycle down the road and you look over into the ditch that the motorcycle is going to end up in that ditch.

Now that idiotic stuff is about, well, the most idiotic stuff i think i have ever heard. I've rode Honda's, Yamaha's, and had three Harley-Davidson motorcycles. My motorcycle would stay right down the middle of the road.

Do you believe in this statement, that the cue goes where the eyes go???

r/DCP

If you are driving a motorcycle or bike for that matter. You are going across a bridge with a walkway. it's kind of narrow. You keep your head and eyes on the narrow walkway in front of you to make sure you stay in the center. Start starring at the railing and your in trouble. Need to keep centered. Same thing in a car. Take your eyes off the road to pick up something on the passenger seat and the next thing you know your heading for the ditch.

Texting the same thing. The target is the road. You can keep centered. Take your eye off the road and your in trouble. Simple as that.

I always tell players to pick up the stick and hold it up like your going to throw a spear. Now go thru the motion of throwing the spear. Did you ever look at the spear? No...Because you were looking at the target. If you were looking at the spear you would have a hard time hitting the target.

When down on a pool shot we just have the spear under our eyes. Nothing has changed. Under instead of over our head. But we can get the eyes in a much better position. The object ball is the target. That's why when we come down on the shot we need to focus on the object ball. Only looking at that. Once down we can look back at the cue ball and make sure where we are on that. Once we stroke the cue and make contact with the object ball the cue and the cue ball become the spear together. The target is the object ball. We don't really aim with the spear but our eye work independently on the balls. But if you are not looking at the object ball when you pull the trigger you might as well close your eyes at that point.

There are other factors involved with this. Tip needs to be close to the cue ball so you know your going to hit it right there. If your back an inch or 2, 3 or 4 you might need to look at the cue ball to hit it right but that goes for most lower level players that don't know they need to be close.

I did over 2,000 full lessons in a 6 year period from 2008 to 2014. I did over 20,000 free mini lessons to show players how important it is to get the eyes right otherwise they could see no reason to fix anything because they didn't know why they struggled so much. .

Many players were looking at the cue ball when they shoot because they never had a lesson and never knew any better. But once shown how to use the proper eye patterns to see the cue ball and transition to the object ball during the shot there was not a single one that would want to go back to the cue ball last.

I saw a couple of pro players that said they look at the cue ball last. I watched these players when I played in some of these tournaments. They were either lying about it or really thought they were looking at the cue ball last. They were flat out looking at the object ball when they pulled the trigger.

Looking at the cue ball last and trying to improve at pool is pretty tough. If you want to just hang out , get drunk and socialize it doesn't matter what you do. But if you want to improve forget about it.

This is coming from someone that know for sure.
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you are driving a motorcycle or bike for that matter. You are going across a bridge with a walkway. it's kind of narrow. You keep your head and eyes on the narrow walkway in front of you to make sure you stay in the center. Start starring at the railing and your in trouble. Need to keep centered. Same thing in a car. Take your eyes off the road to pick up something on the passenger seat and the next thing you know your heading for the ditch. LMAO, NO WAY!

Texting the same thing. The target is the road. You can keep centered. Take your eye off the road and your in trouble. Simple as that.

I always tell players to pick up the stick and hold it up like your going to throw a spear. Now go thru the motion of throwing the spear. Did you ever look at the spear? No...Because you were looking at the target. If you were looking at the spear you would have a hard time hitting the target. YOU CANNOT COMPARE THIS TO A POOL SHOT. Geez, nothing on the planet compares to a pool shot.

When down on a pool shot we just have the spear under our eyes. Nothing has changed. Under instead of over our head. But we can get the eyes in a much better position. The object ball is the target. That's why when we come down on the shot we need to focus on the object ball. Only looking at that. Once down we can look back at the cue ball and make sure where we are on that. Once we stroke the cue and make contact with the object ball the cue and the cue ball become the spear together. The target is the object ball. We don't really aim with the spear but our eye work independently on the balls. But if you are not looking at the object ball when you pull the trigger you might as well close your eyes at that point.

There are other factors involved with this. Tip needs to be close to the cue ball so you know your going to hit it right there. If your back an inch or 2, 3 or 4 you might need to look at the cue ball to hit it right but that goes for most lower level players that don't know they need to be close. THESE ARE ALL GOOD POINTS
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My dad can beat up your dad.

If you are driving a motorcycle or bike for that matter. You are going across a bridge with a walkway. it's kind of narrow. You keep your head and eyes on the narrow walkway in front of you to make sure you stay in the center. Start starring at the railing and your in trouble. Need to keep centered. Same thing in a car. Take your eyes off the road to pick up something on the passenger seat and the next thing you know your heading for the ditch. LMAO, NO WAY!

Texting the same thing. The target is the road. You can keep centered. Take your eye off the road and your in trouble. Simple as that.

I always tell players to pick up the stick and hold it up like your going to throw a spear. Now go thru the motion of throwing the spear. Did you ever look at the spear? No...Because you were looking at the target. If you were looking at the spear you would have a hard time hitting the target. YOU CANNOT COMPARE THIS TO A POOL SHOT. Geez, nothing on the planet compares to a pool shot.

When down on a pool shot we just have the spear under our eyes. Nothing has changed. Under instead of over our head. But we can get the eyes in a much better position. The object ball is the target. That's why when we come down on the shot we need to focus on the object ball. Only looking at that. Once down we can look back at the cue ball and make sure where we are on that. Once we stroke the cue and make contact with the object ball the cue and the cue ball become the spear together. The target is the object ball. We don't really aim with the spear but our eye work independently on the balls. But if you are not looking at the object ball when you pull the trigger you might as well close your eyes at that point.

There are other factors involved with this. Tip needs to be close to the cue ball so you know your going to hit it right there. If your back an inch or 2, 3 or 4 you might need to look at the cue ball to hit it right but that goes for most lower level players that don't know they need to be close. THESE ARE ALL GOOD POINTS

This is foolish. I'm trying to help and you want to argue.

I know what I know from experience. Not from just sitting here and thinking about it.

I've done the groundwork and help players everywhere. 10 minutes with me would change your tune for sure or even on skype.

I could show you things so you would understand.

Sorry . But I tried to help.

There are many misinformations on the internet about pool. I'm not one of them.

Just trying to share some great knowledge.
 

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
Gene, you've done a ton for pool, and are a great player to boot.

DCP has a new "thing" every 2ish days. It might be a rack, cloth, stick with a specific design, cue ball, ball set, break, shape, or any one of 100 other things. You just have to pass over it.

He's said that he has taken lessons from most of the top instructors, but still likes to nit pick at points and not heed advice.



This is foolish. I'm trying to help and you want to argue.

I know what I know from experience. Not from just sitting here and thinking about it.

I've done the groundwork and help players everywhere. 10 minutes with me would change your tune for sure or even on skype.

I could show you things so you would understand.

Sorry . But I tried to help.

There are many misinformations on the internet about pool. I'm not one of them.

Just trying to share some great knowledge.
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When i read idiotic stupid stuff i call it as i see it. Unfortunately there is alot of it on this Forum. Thats why its lost people over the years.

I recently had someone guarantee me improvement on my problem with straight-in shots. We talked for ten minutes and it took me about 30 seconds to realize this was idiotic as well. No contact since.

r/DCP
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sorry you had a bad experience.

When i read idiotic stupid stuff i call it as i see it. Unfortunately there is alot of it on this Forum. Thats why its lost people over the years.

I recently had someone guarantee me improvement on my problem with straight-in shots. We talked for ten minutes and it took me about 30 seconds to realize this was idiotic as well. No contact since.

r/DCP

I'm pretty confident in my ability to help just about any player with just about anything. The things I know were not cooked up on the couch. My ability to help comes from playing at a higher level myself already and then trying to figure out things for my game. Then from all the lessons starting to see the same things over and over. Then helping the players and finding out that the same problems can be helped with the same solutions.

Rodney Morris was at Bullshooters in 2009 at Pheonix. I showed him what I teach and he told me that what I showed him explained why he was having trouble with hitting the break square and shooting a straight in shot.

He told me that if he would have known this he would have beaten Efren in the Million Dollar IPT tournament final. He scratched 3 times on the break.

He said he didn't have enough time to warm up and try to get the sighting correct.

You can't make this stuff up. Especially or Rodney would call me out on it.

2 of the players that were on the Mosconi Cup this year I worked with when they were 16, 17 years old.

I would have no problem showing you why you have trouble with that and show you how to fix it.

And It doesn't matter if you play at a pro level or beginner level. The answer and the solution is the same.

All teachers are not the same. I have met some bad ones myself. I hear complaints about others that teach all the time. Many of the players if they play at a higher level are embarressed that they spent the money for nothing. Sounds like your experience.

Or maybe it was a free one from someone that didn't have a clue but thought they did?

I usually get compliments.

One that I remember and has happened many times.

The player says: I thought I had a lesson before. Now I know that wasn't a lesson. This is a real lesson.

The older players comment on this: Where were you 30 years ago.

For every lesson i do I do about 2 free ones. It's just something I just can't help.
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Biggest reason is that they don´t wanna really improve. Not open mind for new stuff to come in or stay long enough to make a difference.

First time they have a bad day after new teaching they will dump it and go old same thing they do.. :frown:
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I do free tuneups for life....my life anyway.

Biggest reason is that they don´t wanna really improve. Not open mind for new stuff to come in or stay long enough to make a difference.

First time they have a bad day after new teaching they will dump it and go old same thing they do.. :frown:

This is why I do free lifetime tuneups with what I teach. All it takes is one thing out of maybe 7 that the player is not doing correctly and they start having problems.

I can usually do it just over the phone and go over the points that make it work.

Now I have skype that is making it possible to be all over the world teaching and with great results.

I did 2 lessons in Kuwait a couple of days ago. Amazing results.

Lesson in Mass, 2 days ago .

Have done about 5 lessons in Canada over the last month.

Tomorrow I'm doing one in Mississippi with a fairly accomplished player. What I will show him he will see as pure gold. Already playing at a higher level he will kind of freak at the things he didn't know that he needed to.

I can't believe how well this is with skype.

Plus I have no expenses being on the road so I'm doing the lessons at half the normal price if I was traveling.

This is so much fun helping players. :clapping::welcome::welcome::welcome:
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Been there,

Gene,

Ever get to Indiana?

I wish I could. I'm nursing my health a little. Working out at the gym everyday lightly and swim about 20 laps in the pool.

Had my neck fused c5 c6 c7, knee replaced, surgery on the other, open heart surgery to repair a cleft mitro valve and then fix a lung hernia created by the heart surgery holes.

This was all in the last 5 years. I bought a 40' Winnebago with 2 huge slides to travel around the USA and teach.

Covid 19 kind of put a kink in my plans.

I'm in the Twin Cities right now and can't go until this thing is calmed down or they get a vaccine.

But what players don't know is this skype actually works better than if I'm there in person. If this keeps going the way it has I might buy another house, sell the motorhome and do lessons at the house and skype all over the world.

In fact I'll make you an offer. I'll work with you on skype in the near future and show you some of my expertise. I will show you exactly why you have trouble with this or that and show you how to fix it. And you will be able to see immediately that what I am telling you is true because it works.

All of the things that I teach are tested by player after player everyday when I do my lessons.

I never have players get on the internet and complain about my lessons.

But I do get person that teaches pool dog me every once in awhile. It must be frustrating to know you don't know what your talking about. Sounds like you got ahold of one of those.

I hope you take me up on my offer. It would be fun. Just give me a call and I'll set you up a time.

I'm doing about 7 or 8 lessons a week on skype. Usually booked out about 5 or 6 days.

715-563-8712 just give me a call. :thumbup:
 

Korsakoff

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
{Snip}Now I have skype that is making it possible to be all over the world teaching and with great results.{Snip}

I’m sure you are aware, but Microsoft is shifting to Teams and will discontinue Skype support in about a year. You may want to transition to another video interface over the next year.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
Biggest reason is that they don´t wanna really improve. Not open mind for new stuff to come in or stay long enough to make a difference.

First time they have a bad day after new teaching they will dump it and go old same thing they do.. :frown:

Doing anything better is work, some people hate the "W" word. Everyone want to be great, few work at it.

Most want a magic cure all pill, or improved pill.

Sadly it is NFS, or available.
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Rodney Morris was at Bullshooters in 2009 at Pheonix. I showed him what I teach and he told me that what I showed him explained why he was having trouble with hitting the break square and shooting a straight in shot.

He told me that if he would have known this he would have beaten Efren in the Million Dollar IPT tournament final. He scratched 3 times on the break.

He said he didn't have enough time to warm up and try to get the sighting correct.

You can't make this stuff up. Especially or Rodney would call me out on it.
hey geno, I've heard that both rodney and ralf souquet said they hit cb last
I admittedly haven't tried to see for myself, but do you think they are mistaken?
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Skype is the way to go. Unless I can see what is going on overall there is way too much room for error. Skype is easy to download on the phone and just have it propped up on a table. head phones are nice to have also if your in a place that's got some noise.
 
Top