The closer to dead-center that the cue ball strikes the object ball, the more of its

hi all, sorry that my initial post was confusing..not my intention to mislead in any way.
the title of this thread is a quote I like that was lifted from the article.
I realize the article is short and ends abruptly, but still thought it was kinda cool, so I posted it.
anyway, as someone pointed out, the og post inspired some interesting responses, so at least, thanks for those :thumbup:
 
Bob Jewett said:
I don't know where the OP found the link to the Times article, but it is not listed by the tool the Times provides to search through old articles. From the details of the link it appears that the article was in a special science feature that has not been included in the large archive of Times articles.

For those who want to see the paper by Ron Shepard that is referenced in the Times article, it is available at http://www.sfbilliards.com/miscellaneous.htm and several other places that Google can tell you about.

A few details related to the OP.... The speed of the cue ball just after the collision is proportional to the sine of the cut angle; the speed of the object ball is proportional to the cosine of the cut angle. The energies in the two balls (ignoring spin) are proportional to the square of the sine and cosine respectively. This has been known for something over 200 years.

There is at least one error (or simplification) in the Times article -- it ignores throw.
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Leave it to an engineer to thoroughly confuse us all. Sine, cosine proportional what??? ;)
 
Michael Andros said:
I take this as a sine I am a *total* idiot. I have NO idea what he just said. I think it was English but I ain't fer sure on that... :eek:
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Sines and cosines are things you would have learned about in high school had you been paying attention.:grin-devilish:
 
garczar said:
Good point(s). BH could have been doing that, putting a "bit" of outside on. It just always looked like he was dead-center a lot. I really feel lucky to know the guy pretty well and to have seen him when he was "the guy" to beat.
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It doesn't matter if you use a little or a lot or a noneya of inside, outside or noneside... as long as you know what is happening and aim appropriately.appropriately
 
iusedtoberich said:
Buddy has a video where he runs 10 rack of 9 ball while commentating what he is thinking and doing. On one of outs he was shooting the 9, and says (paraphrasing) to apply a small amount of outside spin. He called it "helping english" on the video.

Whether he did this in real life, or it was made up for the video, who knows, but I'd bet he did it in real life.
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He did this. With the advent of television and ESPN, anyone can see that Buddy not only uses english on most shots, he goes to the extreme edge more than most pro. He was interviewed after one of his US Open wins, and they remarked how much english he used, to which his answer was pretty much of course and that “you have to use all of the cueball.

I think Buddy’s smooth stroke confused people on where he was hitting , before televised events could prove otherwise. I’ve watched him live countless of hours in tournaments where the lighting is excellent with the intent to watch where he aims and hit. Buddy doesnt stay near the center. Not even close. He isnt the champion of the Clock System and the Tuck and Roll for no reason.

Freddie
 
Cornerman said:
He did this. With the advent of television and ESPN, anyone can see that Buddy not only uses english on most shots, he goes to the extreme edge more than most pro. He was interviewed after one of his US Open wins, and they remarked how much english he used, to which his answer was pretty much of course and that “you have to use all of the cueball.

I think Buddy’s smooth stroke confused people on where he was hitting , before televised events could prove otherwise. I’ve watched him live countless of hours in tournaments where the lighting is excellent with the intent to watch where he aims and hit. Buddy doesnt stay near the center. Not even close. He isnt the champion of the Clock System and the Tuck and Roll for no reason.

Freddie
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Freddie - Buddy could be ( and, probably IS ) the singularly MOST impressive player I've ever seen play live. I'm not sure I can really articulate exactly why, but from A to Z, he impressed me more than anyone. And from 30 years ago back to 45 years or so, I saw a whole slew of great players, live, at one time or another... Sigel, Hopkins, Earl, Grady, Louie, Rempe, Hubbard and on and on. And I saw Buddy more than any of them ( in action and in tournaments ), as he lived in Tampa off and on for at least 20 years. He was mesmerizing. He could, literally, put you to sleep. I don't think there will ever be another player quite like him.
 
Words of wisdom, and sage advice my old friend! Hu knows what he is talking about! Good to see you posting again! :thumbup:. Going to DCC?

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

]
ShootingArts said:
You spend a lot of time learning side spin along with
controlling deflection and squirt, then learn you rarely need much side spin. Granted, the first shot after the break or after the other player's turn you may occasionally need a lot of spin on a longer shot but this is rare and you are almost always better off pocketing the ball and taking a harder second shot than using extreme spin on a long shot.

Angles are the secret to lazy man's, or in today's times lazy person's, pool. Angles modified with high or low or just a touch of side will do almost all of the work. When a shot is coming up where spin will be handy, make sure pocketing the ball itself is easy and in other than rotation games, the table is largely cleared. Whenever possible I try to avoid heavy side spin on shots with more than two feet between the cue ball and object ball and with the total distance from cue ball to pocket more than three feet. Angles makes this possible.

A lot of side spin and distance is dangerous for any player, thus the popularity of the low deflection cues which minimize the effects. As a player develops first they play a simple game. Then they complicate it. Then they make it simple again.

Hu
Click to expand...
 
ShootingArts said:
You spend a lot of time learning side spin along with controlling deflection and squirt, then learn you rarely need much side spin. Granted, the first shot after the break or after the other player's turn you may occasionally need a lot of spin on a longer shot but this is rare and you are almost always better off pocketing the ball and taking a harder second shot than using extreme spin on a long shot.

Angles are the secret to lazy man's, or in today's times lazy person's, pool. Angles modified with high or low or just a touch of side will do almost all of the work. When a shot is coming up where spin will be handy, make sure pocketing the ball itself is easy and in other than rotation games, the table is largely cleared. Whenever possible I try to avoid heavy side spin on shots with more than two feet between the cue ball and object ball and with the total distance from cue ball to pocket more than three feet. Angles makes this possible.

A lot of side spin and distance is dangerous for any player, thus the popularity of the low deflection cues which minimize the effects. As a player develops first they play a simple game. Then they complicate it. Then they make it simple again.

Hu
Click to expand...
In a perfect world if you could set the cue ball exactly where you want it, with the desired angle for every shot, you might be able to run out a 9-ball rack without ever using any left or right spin - striking the cue ball on the center axis every shot. However, we all know that is not realistic. It might be valuable drill / practice attempting to run 9-ball racks with no side spin, but it's not realistic to attempt to play a 9-ball match that way. Being able to successfully pocket shots from various angles and distances with high and low outside and inside is absolutely necessary to play higher level 9-ball.
 
ChrisinNC said:
In a perfect world if you could set the cue ball exactly where you want it, with the desired angle for every shot, you might be able to run out a 9-ball rack without ever using any left or right spin - striking the cue ball on the center axis every shot. However, we all know that is not realistic. It might be valuable drill / practice attempting to run 9-ball racks with no side spin, but it's not realistic to attempt to play a 9-ball match that way. Being able to successfully pocket shots from various angles and distances with high and low outside and inside is absolutely necessary to play higher level 9-ball.
Click to expand...
So, unless you are ready to eat 7 eggs and 10 pieces of toast and 8 black beauties for breakfast, limiting yourself to center ball is not to be attempted.
 
ShootingArts said:
You spend a lot of time learning side spin along with controlling deflection and squirt, then learn you rarely need much side spin. Granted, the first shot after the break or after the other player's turn you may occasionally need a lot of spin on a longer shot but this is rare and you are almost always better off pocketing the ball and taking a harder second shot than using extreme spin on a long shot.

Angles are the secret to lazy man's, or in today's times lazy person's, pool. Angles modified with high or low or just a touch of side will do almost all of the work. When a shot is coming up where spin will be handy, make sure pocketing the ball itself is easy and in other than rotation games, the table is largely cleared. Whenever possible I try to avoid heavy side spin on shots with more than two feet between the cue ball and object ball and with the total distance from cue ball to pocket more than three feet. Angles makes this possible.

A lot of side spin and distance is dangerous for any player, thus the popularity of the low deflection cues which minimize the effects. As a player develops first they play a simple game. Then they complicate it. Then they make it simple again.

Hu
Click to expand...

It’s always nice to have a little extra horsepower, until you get a ticket, then you tend to
Slow ‘er back down for a while...:wink:

Td
 
traveling days are done

Scott Lee said:
Words of wisdom, and sage advice my old friend! Hu knows what he is talking about! Good to see you posting again! :thumbup:. Going to DCC?

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

]
Click to expand...


Scott,

Afraid it is a big trip these days when I go down to my doctor's in Metairie and squeeze in a few hours at Buff's. He has put in a ten foot snooker table so I can play on that. First time in four decades. Used my pool cue of course and squirt and deflection were huge! Forgot just how light those little balls are and missed an object ball about four inches when I really juiced the cue ball on a shot!(grin)

The snooker table at Buff's and a new place opening in Hammond with Diamonds have fired my interest in pool again. I have to go to Hammond now and then. They only have one nine foot but a dozen seven foot Diamonds and they are nonsmoking. Health makes nonsmoking huge these days. City ordinance so with no smoking in the whole town they should be able to survive. A nice place and they are doing leagues I believe. You might be able to set something up at NightKaps when you are down this way.

Still on the farm not far off of 55. Might throw a cheap table on the back porch and wish it luck if I ever get caught up on other things, unlikely on a farm!

Hu
 
True in more ways than one!

grindz said:
It’s always nice to have a little extra horsepower, until you get a ticket, then you tend to
Slow ‘er back down for a while...:wink:

Td
Click to expand...

Howdy my friend! Yep, always good to have something in reserve. At my best level of play I might have needed a lot of side a couple times in a six or eight hour session. Spot shape is a wonderful thing. That didn't keep me from using a lot of spin when the shot was a tap in near the end of a run so I could just tap in the last ball or two just for grins.

A funny with a lot of side: I had went to big BR to check out a room I hadn't played in for twenty years or so, I was unknown. A pool room detective was playing one pocket with me to see what I had. Both stalling of course, old habits die hard. Right after saying "last game" he accidentally scratched so there was only one ball on the spot. I loaded up lots of inside and after pocketing the spotted ball the cue ball trickled down to the end rail and died leaving the ball frozen on the foot rail a tap in for my out. He started racking again. "I thought that was last game?"

"I didn't know it was over."

Hu
 
Well now that this thread is about center ball, every time this topic comes up, many people say it’s better to stay super close to center. But, this does NOT jive with what pro players do. You can easily see from the CB reaction they use some to a lot of spin on nearly every single shot.

When McCready posted here a lot 15 years ago, he would answer these questions with saying you need to use ALL the CB. Same when Earl was on here many many years ago.

For proof that anyone can see, simply watch the pocketing of the 9 ball by a pro. Usually the 9 stays near the spot if the rack was tight, and a pro will have a similar cut angle on it with the CB about a diamond away from the side pocket. You can bet your house no pro on earth is hitting this shot with no spin. They are all drawing and outside spin this shot 2 rails out of the corner, and sometimes they hit it hard enough it goes all the way to the other end of the table.

If a pro is using spin on the 9 when no position is required, how can you claim they are not on balls 1 through 8 when position is required.
 
jrctherake said:
Spin is like a fat chick, we know we should, we know we are probably gonna regret it..... lol... but we did it anyway and then suffer the consequences.
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Centerball is like my wife - stable, reliable, productive.
Spin is like my mistress - exciting but can get out of control.

pj <- likes both
chgo
 
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