the cue"playability

trinacria

trinacria

in efren we trust
Silver Member
I know its subjective, I know its the indian not the arrow, but what does having a cuetec or a southwest really matter. people say if youre a beginner get this or that, but what if you've played 30 years, what exactly is the point everyone tries to make? im asking bc of the deanoc debacle, a schmelke plays like a monster if you don't know its a schmelke, so how does a schmelke differ from a Scruggs?**(Scruggs resonance after hitting the cue ball is my all time faveroite "feel" for a cue)** I have a schmelke, its a great cue, ive owned 20 or so customs, nittis, cohens, rats, jerry r, scruggs and on and on, I honestly canr remember ive gone through so many makers, ive owned every production cue, and the only thing that stuck was, I need a 12mm maple shaft with a pro taper or an 11.75 conical LD, and a non laminated tip, triangle and elkmaster is my preferace. So, beginner or not, pro or amateur, rich or poor, whats the "it plays better" everyone talks about?

PS: im in no way defending deanoc, just curious. my likability of a pool cue is the RESONANCE, as well as the overall balance of it being in my hand. but my stroking the cue ball and potting the ball I feel the cuemaker has little to do with it. thoughts???
 
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trinacria said:
I know its subjective, I know its the indian not the arrow, but what does having a cuetec or a southwest really matter. people say if youre a beginner get this or that, but what if you've played 30 years, what exactly is the point everyone tries to make? im asking bc of the deanoc debacle, a schmelke plays like a monster if you don't know its a schmelke, so how does a schmelke differ from a Scruggs?**(Scruggs resonance after hitting the cue ball is my all time faveroite "feel" for a cue)** I have a https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=510279schmelke, its a great cue, ive owned 20 or so customs, nittis, cohens, rats, jerry r, scruggs and on and on, I honestly canr remember ive gone through so many makers, ive owned every production cue, and the only thing that stuck was, I need a 12mm maple shaft with a pro taper or an 11.75 conical LD, and a non laminated tip, triangle and elkmaster is my preferace. So, beginner or not, pro or amateur, rich or poor, whats the "it plays better" everyone talks about?

PS: im in no way defending deanoc, just curious. my likability of a pool cue is the RESONANCE, as well as the overall balance of it being in my hand. but my stroking the cue ball and potting the ball I feel the cuemaker has little to do with it. thoughts???
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You’ll find lots of agreement here:
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=510279

pj
chgo
 
You mentioned the Scruggs cue resonance after hitting the cue ball was the all time favorite feel for a cue.

It is pure speculation to comment about “it” plays better for you, or anyone else in particular, if they already
have found a sweet cue that impressed them. Instead, it is usually a question of forensics. In other words,
of all the cues you’ve played with, what was the difference, if any, with your favorite cue versus the others?

Surely these cues differed from each other in some aspect ranging from the type wood, butt & shaft, weights,
dimensions & taper, weight ratios, joint type, ferrule design, type tip & hardness are some very key aspects
in the anatomy of every two piece pool cue made. It is just that most players don’t take time to find out.

IMO, it seems more appropriate to ascertain detailed knowledge about any cue you find that impresses
you as a pool cue that just stands out from all the rest you’ve played with. Unless you learn the essentials
about that particular cue, you have no real way of judging or ever comparing it with any other cue aside
from saying you liked this one the most. I submit that if another cue was made by a different cue maker
using the exact same profile of a cue that you considered was the best hitting cue you ever tried, the
difference between the two cues should be negligible. Most players don’t have the interest to find out.
As long as a cue feels fine, that’s all that matters. If it feels better, how come? There’s always a reason why.
 
Wood and construction technique.

I currently only own two cues. Both by the same maker. Over the years I have hit with probably15+ cues made by him and they all have the crispness and playability I find desirable.

Integrity & craftsmanship along with the best shaft wood around. The names of well known cue makers who desire his shaft wood would blow most people away.
 
To me, in the most simple terms- cue playability is about how an individual cue balances in the players hands to their agreement and what feedback the cue stick delivers to the player as it passes through the cue ball.

How you get there with a cue is a factor of many different components, each contributing and coordinating to the "feel" of that cue to a particular player. it can be a $50 cue or a $5,000 cue- I have had both in my hands and they were each more than acceptable as far as players.
 
Maybe that custom cue feels better (and cost more) because the cue maker wastes so much wood? What I mean is he will go through a log looking for the perfect grain structure and perfect density. Throwing away or reselling wood that would probably have been perfectly fine for the bulk of us. Wood that would make a perfectly fine shaft is rejected for some minute reason. And that's not mentioning the extra time used.

Craftsmanship is important, but completely understanding every nuance of the material he is working with makes not just a craftsman, but an artist.
 
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buckshotshoey said:
Maybe that custom cue feels better (and cost more) because the cue maker wastes so much wood? What I mean is he will go through a log looking for the perfect grain structure and perfect density. Throwing away or reselling wood that would probably have been perfectly fine for the bulk of us. Wood that would make a perfectly fine shaft is rejected for some minute reason. And that's not mentioning the extra time used.

Craftsmanship is important, but completely understanding every nuance of the material he is working with makes not just a craftsman, but an artist.
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I don't think any current makes use logs. I think they are all buying near-ready pieces.

It just isn't cost effective to sit on hunks of wood for decades or to rush cuts and end up with wood that isn't properly ready.
 
Black-Balled said:
I don't think any current makes use logs. I think they are all buying near-ready pieces.

It just isn't cost effective to sit on hunks of wood for decades or to rush cuts and end up with wood that isn't properly ready.
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Yeah. Don't think any makers are curing and cutting whole logs. You can buy almost any wood in billets that are already partially/mostly dried.
 
This whole Deanoc/Schmelke quality thing maybe is a bit twisted in a different way than I thought.
One poster says one reason the Schmelke is crap is because of the long hole in the butt.

Now Tim Scruggs was known as as a top cue maker. His Sneaky Pete's are famous. Bob Frey made many, maybe most, for him. I have two Frey SP's. The other day for whatever reason I pulled the bumper on the best playing SP. It's a seriously good looking hunk of Cocobolo. Damn if the butt wasn't drilled out maybe seven inches deep. I love the hit, sound, balance and play of this cue. I also figure Bob Frey knows a lot more about making nice playing cues than most, if not all the posters here.

I'm not saying I would have liked paying $500. for a Schmelke. That's more than I paid for the Frey. But considering how dense Ebony is I surely understand why it has a big butt hole. Crappy finish on some is another story. But I also believe Hawaiian Eye when he says he likes the way it plays.

But no, I would not buy a cue from Dean, not after this. Just sayin'.
 
Are pool players stupid ?
If a $200 cue plays as well as SW or Scruggs, they would be flying off the shelves.
The factory wouldn't be able to keep them in stock.
They would have to raise the price.

Now, from the same factory, how would their $500 cue hit compared to the $170 ? The same ?
 
JoeyInCali said:
Are pool players stupid ?
If a $200 cue plays as well as SW or Scruggs, they would be flying off the shelves.
The factory wouldn't be able to keep them in stock.
They would have to raise the price.

Now, from the same factory, how would their $500 cue hit compared to the $170 ? The same ?
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Does a cue by a well known maker that costs $3000 hit better than your best cue?
 
old cues

People really go gaga over the old masters. I always wonder how those cues played when they were new. I would be willing to bet that the wood being fifty years old has as much to do with the hit as who made it.

I saw somebody bringing the technology to pool cues I think, but I have slept since then. The makers of musical instruments have found a way to artificially age wood that gives a sound that can't be had with new wood. I suspect it would make a great playing cue too.

Hu
 
mikemosconi said:
To me, in the most simple terms- cue playability is about how an individual cue balances in the players hands to their agreement and what feedback the cue stick delivers to the player as it passes through the cue ball.

How you get there with a cue is a factor of many different components, each contributing and coordinating to the "feel" of that cue to a particular player. it can be a $50 cue or a $5,000 cue- I have had both in my hands and they were each more than acceptable as far as players.
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To me, this might be the best answer possible.

Anyone attributing the cost of a stick to playability might want to consider the placebo effect or possibly has a financial interest of some sort. Money can have an effect on physics as seen with the evolution of carbon fiber and phenolics, but that isn't in anyway exclusive to pool sticks or any name brand. I'd wager the best reference stick for any given player physically right now would cost no more than $650 new, whatever it may be.

FWIW, this topic mirrors the price vs the objective sound of pianos, although no where near as intricate (there's massive variables in pianos, definitely worth a read).
 
garczar said:
Yeah. Don't think any makers are curing and cutting whole logs. You can buy almost any wood in billets that are already partially/mostly dried.
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I said logs, but meant this^^^^. I doubt all the bullets they purchase are up to their standards.
 
The reason beginners are pointed to certain cues like Lucasi, McDermott, Players, etc, is because they are inexpensive, good cues. To be honest, they don't ever need to move away from those cues. One of my best players is a Lucasi sneaky I bought almost twenty years ago. The point is beginners do not have the acuity to discern what they actually like/dislike about a cue's "hit". I order custom cues because I have learned I like a certain joint, ferrule, tip, woods, balance, etc. Can I find a good hitting cue "off the rack", most definitely. Can I find a good hitting cue that matches my esthetic tastes as well? I haven't yet.
 
Dean's issue is not being forthcoming with what he was selling. That's a completely different issue from playability.

A cue built by a guy like Scruggs or Stroud has workmanship which has held up over the years. You know the wood was properly aged and cue constructed with attention to detail.

I'm too cheap to buy a Scruggs or JossWest so what I do is buy cues at least ten years old for a reasonable price which roll straight and are in good condition with the weight, balance shaft taper etc that I like. If you buy a cheap mass produced cue will it roll straight in ten years? Will the finish lift? Will the inlays pop out?
 
Black-Balled said:
I don't think any current makes use logs. I think they are all buying near-ready pieces.

It just isn't cost effective to sit on hunks of wood for decades or to rush cuts and end up with wood that isn't properly ready.
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The process begins with Joe Pechauer himself selecting the maple logs that make up different parts of the pool cue. They're then cut on Pechauer's own saw and dried in their specialized kiln before being combined and married with other exotic woods.

taken from Pechauer site.
 
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