The dumbest question ever

mullyman

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
Guys, I'm going to go ahead and call myself a bunch of ludicrous names and pick on myself incessantly so there's no need to add to it, unless you absolutely can't resist.........and I won't blame you if you do.

I've been playing pool for as long as I can remember. Going back to when I was a little kid even. There was always pool in my life in some form. I've made my way up to the SA class here in Japan and have won many a tournament and have even been ranked number one in the Prefecture. Even after all of that.........I'm not sure about pocket size when someone says 4 and a half inch pockets etc... I'm assuming 4.5in pockets are pretty tight. I recall Grady saying something on an Accu-Stats tape about the old time players "using mud balls on tables with 5in pockets." So, if someone could clear this up for me it would be a great help.

What is the standard pocket size and what is considered tight?
MULLY
go ahead, make fun of me, I deserve it:(
 
i think 4.5" would be pretty tight on a Diamond table,but i am not sure what is standard.i know 4" would be tight on a Diamond.
 
5" is huge 4" is tight<------simple explination, there other factors, 4 1/4" seems to be the perfered pocket size currently.

mud balls are made out of a different material and are all gone in 99.9545% of the pool rooms I have seen. They were tougher to move around on slow cloth years ago, so the pckets were bigger to make the game easier, with new faster cloth balls, the pockets were tightened up so the game is harder, if the pockets were 5" Archer, Alex or Shane would be running 6-12 packs all the time playing 9B.
 
the way I was told if you can fit two balls in the jaws of the pocket and they touch. you have standard pockets.

if you can fit two balls in the jaws of the pocket and there is a gap between them you have loose pockets.. the bigger the gap the looser the pocket.

if you can't fit two balls in the jaws then you have tight pockets..
 
A Diamond Pro Cut table has 4 1/2" pockets and that is pretty tight. A standard Diamond table has 5" or 5 1/8", somewhere around there. The standard 5" pockets are what most people around here refer to as "buckets".

The pros usually play on 4 1/2" pockets. I've personally never seen a table with 4" pockets. I'm guessing that is a pro cut table that has been shimmed.
 
mullyman said:
Guys, I'm going to go ahead and call myself a bunch of ludicrous names and pick on myself incessantly so there's no need to add to it, unless you absolutely can't resist.........and I won't blame you if you do.

I've been playing pool for as long as I can remember. Going back to when I was a little kid even. There was always pool in my life in some form. I've made my way up to the SA class here in Japan and have won many a tournament and have even been ranked number one in the Prefecture. Even after all of that.........I'm not sure about pocket size when someone says 4 and a half inch pockets etc... I'm assuming 4.5in pockets are pretty tight. I recall Grady saying something on an Accu-Stats tape about the old time players "using mud balls on tables with 5in pockets." So, if someone could clear this up for me it would be a great help.

What is the standard pocket size and what is considered tight?
MULLY
go ahead, make fun of me, I deserve it:(
Click to expand...
Mully, you bonehead. Don't you know that 4.5" pockets are buckets that only rank amatuers would consider playing on!

Just kidding Mullyman.

There are a couple of things to consider when sizing up pocket tightness - point to point width and shelf depth. An opening of 4.5" can be considered "tight" if the shelf is deep. In this case the balls would have to be hit really true for the pocket to accept it. Same would be true with a 4" opening and a little less shelf depth. Don't ask what constitutes a deep shelf because I don't have any measurements to go by. I just know them when I see them.

It's true that the old-time players were playing on tables with 5" pockets. So technically, the tables were a lot easier back then. The trade off was that the cloth was a lot slower. Power stroking was something the old-timers needed in their arsenal.

That's my take on it. I'll be waiting for someone else to call ME a bonehead!!
 
From the WPA Tournament Table & Equipment Specifications
http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_spec

9. Pocket Openings and Measurements

Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum 1/4 inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.

The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally 1/2 inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.

Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.

Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other - where the nose of the cushion changes direction - to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.

Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 1/4 inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]
Click to expand...
 
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4.5 is fair. Anything less is tight.
4.5 Diamonds play tight b/c the slates are deep and the angle on the bottom rail's facing is very flat.
 
These are cut at 4" and are considered tight!!!!! Balls are 2.25", so if two balls fit between the points, the pockets would be 4.5". I personally consider 5" pockets to be buckets.

Russ

DSC00095.jpg
 
mullyman said:
Guys, I'm going to go ahead and call myself a bunch of ludicrous names and pick on myself incessantly so there's no need to add to it, unless you absolutely can't resist.........and I won't blame you if you do.

I've been playing pool for as long as I can remember. Going back to when I was a little kid even. There was always pool in my life in some form. I've made my way up to the SA class here in Japan and have won many a tournament and have even been ranked number one in the Prefecture. Even after all of that.........I'm not sure about pocket size when someone says 4 and a half inch pockets etc... I'm assuming 4.5in pockets are pretty tight. I recall Grady saying something on an Accu-Stats tape about the old time players "using mud balls on tables with 5in pockets." So, if someone could clear this up for me it would be a great help.

What is the standard pocket size and what is considered tight?
MULLY
go ahead, make fun of me, I deserve it:(
Click to expand...


According to the WPA Tournament Table & Equipment Specifications the following are min and max dimensions:

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]

Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]

Note: The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ? inch [1.27 cm] wider than the mouth of the corner pocket.

These are the current pocket specifications on the WPA Web Site which is listed below.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_spec

Oh and by the way Mully, this is not a dumb question, you would be surprised how many people don't know this.

Hope this helps
 
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5" pockets are too large for some games, while 4.5 seems to be the tournament standard for games like 9 ball and 8 ball. 1 hole players seem to like 4" pockets.
Now the thing to remember is this, and it applies no matter the skill level.
4" pockets for games like 9 ball, 10 ball, and 8 ball are way too limiting. It limits the ability to play position to the point that making the ball is pretty much the ONLY focus. 4.5s are plenty tight enough for 9 ball etc, anyone who says that arent tight enough has issues with their manhood. :yikes:
To me, position play is pool. Taking away from that, takes away from the game itself, in the same way playing on a barbox with 5.5"+ pockets does.
Chuck
 
mullyman said:
Guys, I'm going to go ahead and call myself a bunch of ludicrous names and pick on myself incessantly so there's no need to add to it, unless you absolutely can't resist.........and I won't blame you if you do.

I've been playing pool for as long as I can remember. Going back to when I was a little kid even. There was always pool in my life in some form. I've made my way up to the SA class here in Japan and have won many a tournament and have even been ranked number one in the Prefecture. Even after all of that.........I'm not sure about pocket size when someone says 4 and a half inch pockets etc... I'm assuming 4.5in pockets are pretty tight. I recall Grady saying something on an Accu-Stats tape about the old time players "using mud balls on tables with 5in pockets." So, if someone could clear this up for me it would be a great help.

What is the standard pocket size and what is considered tight?
MULLY
go ahead, make fun of me, I deserve it:(
Click to expand...

Oh Mully, you're such a silly boy! Don't you know by now, that the pockets are too tight if you're missing balls. If you're making balls they are just right.

More importantly, how tall are the tables in Japan? Are they still lower than those in other countries? At least I know they used to be about one inch lower. Big difference! They are designed for players shorter in stature. By now we know that is a fallacy, with all the great "short" champions. I just wonder if they have corrected this by now.

Standard playing height should be about 30" from floor level to playing surface. 29" is very low. And 31" is very high.
 
Black-Balled said:
I belive skor had documented the only current standard in use today...the WPBA's.
Click to expand...

Table height between 29.25" and 31". That alone causes me to lose respect for this rules committee. That's a HUGE difference in height they are allowing! Nearly two inches!

I would say that between 29.5" and 30.5" is a large, but "perhaps" allowable difference. Believe me, you will notice a one inch difference in table height. That's big!
 
jay helfert said:
Table height between 29.25" and 31". That alone causes me to lose respect for this rules committee. That's a HUGE difference in height they are allowing! Nearly two inches!

I would say that between 29.5" and 30.5" is a large, but "perhaps" allowable difference. Believe me, you will notice a one inch difference in table height. That's big!
Click to expand...

I say...JACK IT UP (well, table height anyways)!
 
Fatboy said:
mud balls are made out of a different material and are all gone in 99.9545% of the pool rooms I have seen. They were tougher to move around on slow cloth years ago
Click to expand...
Eric,

That's also when pool cues were 21 ozs average weight. It took a heavy cue to move the mud balls around on the slow cloth.

Today we have plastic balls on Simonis 860 and players prefer lighter cues in the 19 oz range and most players don't need a 21 oz cue on this equipment......

James
 
Not sure who said it first, but someone once told me, that if you hit the center of the pocket they're all the same size.:wink:
 
Check out the pic in my signature.... around 3.6inches...

Mully... where in Japan are you in? I am in Tokyo and the pic in my signature was also taken here....
let's go shoot some pool together if you are in Tokyo too... :)

Chi Wai
 
The local pool room here, Grady's, has all diamond smart tables. The 9's are all 4.5 in pockets except for three. One has single shim 4 1/4 in pockets and 2 have double shimmed 4 in pockets. They all play fairly tight, but those 4 in pockets and hurt your feelings on a bad day :) there are also six 7's and one of those is double shimmed to 4 in pockets as well and is also a player killer sometimes.
 
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