The Philosophical Mosconi Cup Issue

Netherton said:
For 20 years the Mosconi Cup (my apologies Willie) has been played, and for 20 years I've had the same problem with the tournament. It is a fun tournament that's a sheer delight to watch, after all, how many times do we get to see world class pro's actually dog shots?!
However,
My issue is with the underlying pre tense of the whole thing; The underlying pompousness of the notion that one country, the USA, can take on around 50. Doesn;'t that seem odd to you?

Well it does to me and always has. it's because of the population base you might say. Well, not really - USA 300 million to Europe around 740 Million.

Actually, not only is the tournament ridiculous in it's apparent claim that the USA can do it's best in pool against around 50 nations, but that I might be able to argue quite convincingly that the USA today might not be able to beat GERMANY in pool. Or the UK. Thoughts anyone?
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I think most of the US players are well passed their prime.

When you pass 30 years of age, the decline creeps in, you need players in their
early twenties.

Its strange that when anyone mentions top players you never hear about anyone
in their late teens or early twenties.

I would suggest that SVB is now over the hill.

The younger you are the more able you can handle the pressure.
 
DGilb147 said:
I think most of the US players are well passed their prime.

When you pass 30 years of age, the decline creeps in, you need players in their
early twenties.

Its strange that when anyone mentions top players you never hear about anyone
in their late teens or early twenties.

I would suggest that SVB is now over the hill.

The younger you are the more able you can handle the pressure.
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Man, I have to disagree. Seasoning is what makes a great player able to handle the pressure.

Most pool champions today, in fact, *are* in their 30s and 40s.

FWIW, Spanish Mike Lebron won the U.S. Open at the age of 54. It's not impossible, IOW. ;)

Younger players have tells and lapses of judgment, making them not only an inferior tournament soldier, but when it comes to action, they do not fare as well as a veteran action player.

A good example of what I am referring to is this year's U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship match between relative tournament trail newbie Jayson Shaw and the seasoned veteran Shane Van Boening. Jayson's inexperience in this spot of the semifinals was obvious. He played damn good this year to go as far as he did, and his caliber of play is way up there with the best, but his inexperiece and lack of seasoning figured into the outcome of his last match.

Anyway, that's how I see it, youth vs. experience, when it comes to pool. It is possible for almost anybody to acquire the mechanical skills of pocket billiards, but once you accomplish that, the rest is your mental power, how well you can operate under pressure in a competition while displaying those mechanical skills. :smile:
 
"Most pool champions today, in fact, *are* in their 30s and 40s."

Yes but there should be champions in their early 20's

Its a sign that the sport is in a sorry state.
 
If only pool was popular enough to have an annual 3 week World Cup, teams of 5 from the top 16 nations, round robin Mosconi Cup format for each round robin match to decide top 4. Millions in prize money!... Yeah, I'm a dreamer. :D
Top 8: UK, US, Philippines, Taiwan, China, Germany, Japan, Australia (once we recruit our best snooker talent).
 
It amuses me how Europe has maybe five or six guys capable of winning any event (three of them who actually live in the US now) but somehow Europe is the powerhouse of pool.

If the Mosconi cup ever goes to an Asia vs Europe format I suspect there will be much less of this nonsense.
 
Colin Colenso said:
If only pool was popular enough to have an annual 3 week World Cup, teams of 5 from the top 16 nations, round robin Mosconi Cup format for each round robin match to decide top 4. Millions in prize money!... Yeah, I'm a dreamer. :D
Top 8: UK, US, Philippines, Taiwan, China, Germany, Japan, Australia (once we recruit our best snooker talent).
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What about The World Cup of Pool where Australia gets spanked every year?
 
DGilb147 said:
I think most of the US players are well passed their prime.

When you pass 30 years of age, the decline creeps in, you need players in their
early twenties.

Its strange that when anyone mentions top players you never hear about anyone
in their late teens or early twenties.

I would suggest that SVB is now over the hill.

The younger you are the more able you can handle the pressure.
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I do agree most players in the US are on the backside of their careers. IMO Shane is in the golden age of his and can stay there for another ten years or so if he continues with the same drive and desire.

Of the younger players in the US coming up there are a couple prospects but with the current climate and lack of opportunities for players to make a living I don't see many if any making it to the elite level anytime soon.

As for youth being able to handle pressure better than a seasoned player I disagree. The only benefit youth has is when the player simply doesnt know enough to feel the pressure. It happens from time to time when you see a young player win something big then nothing for years after.
 
Since the subject of "young" players has been brought up...

Keep in mind that not so long ago, many a pool champion began their professional 'career' as a teenager. Mosconi, Hoppe, Greenleaf, Schaefer and the list goes on...

And keep in mind the dominant age range of the world's Olympic champions.
And keep in mind how old the kids are, that are driving our tanks thru the desert and flying our jets.

The argument that kids can't take the pressure is not so cut and dried, and I highly doubt that its the underlying reason(s) we are sorely lacking young champions today.
 
Mr. Bond said:
Since the subject of "young" players has been brought up...

Keep in mind that not so long ago, many a pool champion began their professional 'career' as a teenager. Mosconi, Hoppe, Greenleaf, Schaefer and the list goes on...

And keep in mind the dominant age range of the world's Olympic champions.
And keep in mind how old the kids are, that are driving our tanks thru the desert and flying our jets.

The argument that kids can't take the pressure is not so cut and dried, and I highly doubt that its the underlying reason(s) we are sorely lacking young champions today.
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I see your point for sure, but in most Olympic games, they require physical strength and abilities; whereas, in pool, being in good physical shape is not a requirement. After one acquires the mechanical skills, the rest is upstairs, meaning how well one can control the pressure. :wink:
 
jay helfert said:
There you go. I might take Team Philippines over Team Earth, 96 million against six billion! :thumbup:
Give me Dennis, Carlo, Lee Vann, Francisco and Alex and you can pick any five players you want. I'm betting on the filipinos all the way!
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I agree with you Jay. The five you named would be favorites over anybody......
 
Jaden said:
The US is a federation of nation states. 50 of them to be exact.

US pool has suffered recently and it has put undue pressure on its players. That is the main reasonthat they haven't performed as well in the mc.

Jaden
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Sorry my friend but pressure has nothing to do with it. The Euros actually care about winning for Europe and for each other. They are a team, The US so called team is a group of guys that barley like each other much less care about each other.

The reason the US dominated for so long was the Euros didnt play much 9 ball back then and they put up snooker players in a 9 ball event. Now that the Euros have evened or IMO surpassed the US in talent it is hard to see the US winning any time soon.
 
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jay helfert said:
There you go. I might take Team Philippines over Team Earth, 96 million against six billion! :thumbup:
Give me Dennis, Carlo, Lee Vann, Francisco and Alex and you can pick any five players you want. I'm betting on the filipinos all the way!
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and you could substitute a dozen more guys and still win.
 
spanky79 said:
Sorry mt friend but pressure has nothing to do with it. The Euros actually care about winning for Europe and for each other. They are a team, The US so called team is a group of guys that barley like each other much less care about each other.

The reason the US dominated for so long was the Euros didnt play much 9 ball back then and they put up snooker players in a 9 ball event. Now that the Euros have evened or IMO surpassed the US in talent it is hard to see the US winning any time soon.
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Tap! Tap! Tap! Well said
 
Physical condition matters

JAM said:
I see your point for sure, but in most Olympic games, they require physical strength and abilities; whereas, in pool, being in good physical shape is not a requirement. After one acquires the mechanical skills, the rest is upstairs, meaning how well one can control the pressure. :wink:
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One of the strengths of the Euro team is physical conditioning.

It's well known that many American greats had their careers cut short by their weight problems.

Far fewer players smoke tobacco today than a few years ago.

Americans are notorious for drinking and eating less than an ideal diet.

Yes, I know there are a few good "fat" players, some who smoke and some who drink...they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Pool is largely a mental game, yes, but you cannot separate mental and physical conditioning...they complement each other.
 
We're all "wired" differently, and that's what makes the world more interesting.

HawaiianEye said:
I agree 100%. I say China will become the most dominant pool force in the world, simply based upon population and the "law of averages".

If 1 out of a thousand people can rise to the TOP of the pool world, then just do the math. China has our population dwarfed and as we are dwindling in pool playing in the USA, their pool playing populace is growing by leaps and bounds.
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Yes, the Asian Countries will someday dominate all team pool events if they use a format that is more than "races to 5," especially playing "lucky one foul" rules.

Let's face it, the USA pool players are great individual players, and not great team players.....there's nothing wrong with that, the same can be said of many golf and tennis players. Usually when talented kids gravitate towards individual type sports it's because they are not "wired" to play on teams.

We're all "wired" differently, that's what makes the world most interesting..variation....if we weren't it would be like a planet of "androids" (although Ralf and Shane may be) ;) . 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
sjm said:
What matters is the number of people who play pool, not the population.

I think it highly improbable that Europe has as many pool players as the US. In fact, even though Europe has proven that its top few are superior to America's top few players, the talent pool is much deeper in the US than in Europe. Yes, there are many more good nine ball players here in the US than in Europe.

It is not Europe's population that is driving it's recent Mosconi Cup excellence, during which it has won six of the last seven. It is, instead, the dedication of its top players to the development of their games and the maximization of their playing pedigree and performance.

An English poster on this forum once suggested that there are only about 1,000 people in the UK who play nine ball. And yet, a UK team of Darren Appleton, Karl Boyes, Darryl Peach, Chris Melling and Jayson Shaw would be favored over any team the US could put together. OF course, the US has over five times the population of the UK, so there's more to it than population.

Yes, times have changed and US vs. UK looks the fairer fight than US vs. Europe, but it's not too late to do something about it.
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Brilliant posting!
merry christmas sir :-)

Ingo
 
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