The Rack in Detroit

[mosconiac]

I may be in the minority here, but if I were inclined to partake in high-stakes gambling with the nefarious crew that would frequent the Rack...I may also be inclined to pay the going rate in "pool time" to ensure I can walk out of there with the $$$.

Afterall, the Rack could not have be operating without greasing a few palms, right? Let's not overlook the obvious.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

I guess if you snapped off $4000 in 3 hours on Fri and wanted to snap off $6000 in 4 hours Sat night, you give the faggot his $400.

I guess...but that is pretty outrageous... Tipping the owner something is one thing....but demanding 10% is brutal..

 

[FSutton]

I may be in the minority here, but if I were inclined to partake in high-stakes gambling with the nefarious crew that would frequent the Rack...I may also be inclined to pay the going rate in "pool time" to ensure I can walk out of there with the $$$.

Afterall, the Rack could not have be operating without greasing a few palms, right? Let's not overlook the obvious.

this isn't at the rack its at a pool hall called house of champions in michigan.

 

[1pRoscoe]

this isn't at the rack its at a pool hall called house of champions in michigan.

Sounds more like "House of Robbery" to me....

Give him a nice PeeWee Herman "haha!" and walk unless you plan on playing there again....

Looking forward to picking up the book, Jay.

 

[jay helfert]

I believe Rosie had a fleet of airplanes that flew arms to Vietnam, and might have flew something back on the return trips. That is what I was told. I have been told he lost hundreds of thousands at one time.

He also owned the largest fleet of private aircraft in the country, turbo props and jets. I forget the name of his charter company but he had something like 200 planes in action.

 

[Tommyd1]

Location ???

Was the Rack on the North / West corner of 9 mile and Coolidge in Oak Park, sorta set back in the parking lot ??

If it was, I remember going to it in the early 70's, like 1971 and always seeing older guy's sitting and playing in the south section of the pool hall.

Great place, I think it's still there. ( Maybe under a new name ).

I think Ronnie Weisman just had a one pocket tournament there recently.

Tommyd1

 

[Ktown D]

It's a true story. Details in Pool Wars.

I heard about it the day after. He doubled up and then handed it over to the casino shootin dice, Unfugginbelievable..................

I had a good chuckle with one of the guys that made a "contribution" to the get-home fund.

 

[huckster]

same thing with me at the house of champions the owner they call him the cook i won 4000 or so in 3 hours he said the time was 400 .

I did hear the rack was the same way. If you did not give the house 10% you did not come back. I heard someone (Mike Carella? or Larry Hubbard?) took off a score for around 30 dimes and did not give up the 10% in hindsight they said that was one of there biggest regrets. Everthing I heard about the rack from; F.B.I agents sitting outside the joint, but not ever bothering anyone, to all the big money gangters that were there. My Grandfathe told me that it was a guppy pond with a few well fed sharks around. Still curious if Rosie is alive and still around, my Grandfather thought he was the second biggest score possible behind Jimmy Chagra

 

[tpdtom]

So what happened to the money won?

Let me be specific. It seems from the stories told over the years on AZ, in Freddies book, and in this thread, that there was a small group of ultra rich suckers that came to The Rack. The group included bona-fide business multi-millionaires, pimps and drug dealers with steady streams of disposable cash, bookies, etc.

Now to take this huge stream of "sucker money" there was a bunch of pro level players, that were also the best hustlers in the world.

Obviously from all the stories we heard the pro level players got all the cash from the "suckers". But what did they do with it? Did any of these players that won hundreds of thousands off the rich suckers make anything of that money? It just doesn't add up that most of these older generation players today are just getting by.

I love these stories from the past, I'm not knocking anyone. I just want to know did the players get to keep the cash, or did they somehow blow it all?

I was just a punk kid when I regularly went to The Rack late at night to sweat the action. I was fortunate enough to see most of the greats of the era. My favorites were Red of course, Marvin Henderson, Pittsburg John, Boston Shorty, and Jimmy Reid just to name a few. One night I told Gil the owner that I was going to bet on the side on Red and Gil pulled me aside and told me to never bet when there was more bet on the side than there was in the middle. Good advice from a man who saw it all.

"Doc" Watson worked at The Rack both as a counter man and just cleaning up and racking big games I think, but one night he took Rosie off for $350,000 on the bar box. The next day he went out to a local real estate agent and bought a beautiful ranch home in Southfield that he still owns today. Several generations of the Watson family have been raised there and Doc still hangs at both Oak Park Cue and Hall of Fame in the Detroit area although he NEVER plays a lick these days.

I saw Keith come from California and play One Hole for $20,000 a game. I think his opponent was Jew Paul. In any event Keith won $160,000. The cash was in $10,000 bank stacks with the white wrappers, and all held in a blue PanAm carry-on bag. I'll never forget it. It was raining that night and a couple bad looking dudes walked Keith out to the car with the cheese. There were maybe 200 in attendance.

It's all true and more. I feel lucky to have been there many times...Tom

 

[12squared]

Was the Rack on the North / West corner of 9 mile and Coolidge in Oak Park, sorta set back in the parking lot ??

If it was, I remember going to it in the early 70's, like 1971 and always seeing older guy's sitting and playing in the south section of the pool hall.

Great place, I think it's still there. ( Maybe under a new name ).

I think Ronnie Weisman just had a one pocket tournament there recently.

Tommyd1

The location you're describing is now the House of Champions (or was), originally Cushion & Cue owned by Ray Abrams during the years you mentioned. I played there until I left in '76. It had 8 3-c tables, 4 or 6 6x12' snooker tables, 14 9' gandy's and 2 5x10' snooker, a ping pong table in a separate room (and a great snack bar).

The Rack was a 1/2 block west of Coolidge between 9 & 8 mile Roads across from Stanley Steamers, a great place for a steam and a steak.

Dave

 

[12squared]

I was just a punk kid when I regularly went to The Rack late at night to sweat the action. I was fortunate enough to see most of the greats of the era. My favorites were Red of course, Marvin Henderson, Pittsburg John, Boston Shorty, and Jimmy Reid just to name a few. One night I told Gil the owner that I was going to bet on the side on Red and Gil pulled me aside and told me to never bet when there was more bet on the side than there was in the middle. Good advice from a man who saw it all.

"Doc" Watson worked at The Rack both as a counter man and just cleaning up and racking big games I think, but one night he took Rosie off for $350,000 on the bar box. The next day he went out to a local real estate agent and bought a beautiful ranch home in Southfield that he still owns today. Several generations of the Watson family have been raised there and Doc still hangs at both Oak Park Cue and Hall of Fame in the Detroit area although he NEVER plays a lick these days.

I saw Keith come from California and play One Hole for $20,000 a game. I think his opponent was Jew Paul. In any event Keith won $160,000. The cash was in $10,000 bank stacks with the white wrappers, and all held in a blue PanAm carry-on bag. I'll never forget it. It was raining that night and a couple bad looking dudes walked Keith out to the car with the cheese. There were maybe 200 in attendance.

It's all true and more. I feel lucky to have been there many times...Tom

Tom, what years were you there? I used to play 3-cushion w/Gil once in while. I left the area in '76.

Dave Gross

 

[jay helfert]

I did hear the rack was the same way. If you did not give the house 10% you did not come back. I heard someone (Mike Carella? or Larry Hubbard?) took off a score for around 30 dimes and did not give up the 10% in hindsight they said that was one of there biggest regrets. Everthing I heard about the rack from; F.B.I agents sitting outside the joint, but not ever bothering anyone, to all the big money gangters that were there. My Grandfathe told me that it was a guppy pond with a few well fed sharks around. Still curious if Rosie is alive and still around, my Grandfather thought he was the second biggest score possible behind Jimmy Chagra

Rosie died a few years ago.

 

[Klink]

That 10% insurance money is always well spent and deserved.

 

[FSutton]

Deserved how?

 

[jazznpool]

No Tommy, that was Ray Abram's Cushion and Cue at 10 Mile and Coolidge. It was a top class pool room at one time with excellent food. It has deteriorated severely. The Rack was about 1/2 mile South. The Rack was actually called the "Capitol Social Club." Does anyone remember the duct taped Lazyboy chairs there?

Martin

Was the Rack on the North / West corner of 9 mile and Coolidge in Oak Park, sorta set back in the parking lot ??

If it was, I remember going to it in the early 70's, like 1971 and always seeing older guy's sitting and playing in the south section of the pool hall.

Great place, I think it's still there. ( Maybe under a new name ).

I think Ronnie Weisman just had a one pocket tournament there recently.

Tommyd1

 

[tpdtom]

Tom, what years were you there? I used to play 3-cushion w/Gil once in while. I left the area in '76.

Dave Gross

We were there around '77-'80 I guess Dave. Me and Martin (jazznpool) and our friends from the east side (Playland and Kelly Cue). The night I first went "One Eyed Jesse" Webb told me to mention to Gil that he had sent me. I barely had two nickels to rub together and just wanted to sweat the big guns. Great memories...Tom

 

[JB Cases]

I may be in the minority here, but if I were inclined to partake in high-stakes gambling with the nefarious crew that would frequent the Rack...I may also be inclined to pay the going rate in "pool time" to ensure I can walk out of there with the $$$.

Afterall, the Rack could not have be operating without greasing a few palms, right? Let's not overlook the obvious.

Damn straight. I used to play at a place in S. Florida that would charge $50 an hour after 2am to play pool. They NEVER had a problem with the hard core gamblers paying it either because the stakes were usually $500 a set and higher. I won $1600 there one night playing races to 3 for $50. I payed like $250 in table time and never sweated it one bit.

I guarantee if I won $100,000 and the place wanted to charge me $10,000 for table time then that's fine with me.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I was just a punk kid when I regularly went to The Rack late at night to sweat the action. I was fortunate enough to see most of the greats of the era. My favorites were Red of course, Marvin Henderson, Pittsburg John, Boston Shorty, and Jimmy Reid just to name a few. One night I told Gil the owner that I was going to bet on the side on Red and Gil pulled me aside and told me to never bet when there was more bet on the side than there was in the middle. Good advice from a man who saw it all.

"Doc" Watson worked at The Rack both as a counter man and just cleaning up and racking big games I think, but one night he took Rosie off for $350,000 on the bar box. The next day he went out to a local real estate agent and bought a beautiful ranch home in Southfield that he still owns today. Several generations of the Watson family have been raised there and Doc still hangs at both Oak Park Cue and Hall of Fame in the Detroit area although he NEVER plays a lick these days.

I saw Keith come from California and play One Hole for $20,000 a game. I think his opponent was Jew Paul. In any event Keith won $160,000. The cash was in $10,000 bank stacks with the white wrappers, and all held in a blue PanAm carry-on bag. I'll never forget it. It was raining that night and a couple bad looking dudes walked Keith out to the car with the cheese. There were maybe 200 in attendance.

It's all true and more. I feel lucky to have been there many times...Tom

Now that is a smart man! Thanks for sharing.

 

[12squared]

We were there around '77-'80 I guess Dave. Me and Martin (jazznpool) and our friends from the east side (Playland and Kelly Cue). The night I first went "One Eyed Jesse" Webb told me to mention to Gil that he had sent me. I barely had two nickels to rub together and just wanted to sweat the big guns. Great memories...Tom

Sorry we missed each other. After a 3-cushion tourney at Cushion and cue in the early 70's, I took Shorty to the Rack. Not much was happening so he played some cheap one-pocket, afterwhich I took him to the Oak Park Grill. This was a little dumpy place on 8-mile just east of Coolidge that had fantastic breakfasts (great ham & eggs). Shorty had trouble climbing the stool to sit at the counter. When the cook pulled a hunk of ham grissle out of his mouth in front of us I though shorty was going to faint . Not really, but he did make an uncofortable face. It's funny what sticks in your memory.

Dave

 

[stevelomako]

I guess this place was kind of like Woodstock.

A million people have said they've been there and the numbers keep growing year after year.


It was THE greatest action pool room in the history of pool...PERIOD!


Most people dont know that Jimmy Mataya started going there when he was like 16-17 and became a big favorite with alot of the big money guys, a young kid with no fear of anybody and loved playing for big money, he was kind of like a Prince of the Rack.


Cornbread Red was the King without question.

Red was an animal, an absolute animal for the money. He gave out more rediculous spots than you can think of to good players, played behind his back, played one-handed, with a broom handle, look away and on and on.

He made way more money out-running the nuts than with a fair game, he lost lots and lots of times giving up the nuts but when he won it generally more than made up for the losses.

To this day, he's still the greatest action man pool has had...if he couldn't get a game himself he would try and get other people matched up...gambling breeds gambling.

There isn't ANYONE among todays pool players that comes close to Cornbread that way...nowadays if a player can't play himself he cries and pisses and moans about how nobody will do anything and then they knock everybody else like little whinny *****es. All they got to do is give up the nuts and try to outrun it. It's really pretty simple.

Ronnie Wiseman may be the closest of anyone to how Red was but that's really no suprise as much as he was around him. People can say what they want about Ronnie but he's always looking to be in action...OR...get somebody else in action, thats how it is when you're running around gambling at pool and if you don't understand it, don't do it. That's how it was at the Rack, somebody always trying to get money in action.

I'll dig up some of the stories I've already posted about the Rack on here and find out how to put them on this thread and I'll start adding some more.