The REAL problem with pool

[336Robin]

Partner Games

Yes, we need real TV, not the "TV Lite," or "Diet TV," or whatever we have been reduced to. :shrug:

True,
One way too remake the game just a bit......Bingo which Millenials love went to Ipads and all kinds of different forms...starwars bingo etc....

The way I think pool can reinvent itself is by going back to see what worked.

What worked for me as a kid was 8-ball mainly because it commonly played in a partners game and kids would watch me and my partner play all night to try and knock us off a bar table playing partners...there would quarters lined up all around the table to play.

What I think would work is Partner Games, whether it be 9 ball or 8 ball etc.

If someone would do something to popularize the Partner routine, maybe hold partner tournaments this might help. Handicapping has become popular so more people have a chance to win...It seems now that people want socialization along with that and a partners format would give them that.

I can see all kinds of action developing between sponsoring rooms in different parts of the country were someone to organize something like this.

If you get a new person to play you definitely want them to have fun. Partner games might help that.

Popularity is what gets you back on TV.

 

[CreeDo]

Well, which is it, Creedo, my old/young friend? Seventeen, or thirty-five. :smile:

I just turned 18 obviously! I meet most of my dates at Chuck-E Cheese and Hot Topic.
When someone asks about those funny hairs in my beard I tell them I bleached a few just to be stylish.

 

[Mr. Bond]

C J you are spot on and I like your alternative descriptions. Streaming and various other forms of match videos are keeping pool down in the doldrums.
No other major sport has become so dependent on this low grade way of showcasing itself.
It is amazing that you are the only one that has managed to recognise this and that we need production quality to enhance this game.
I have turned many opportunities to use this form of presentation which I call Redneck TV.

Pish posh.

 

[(((Satori)))]

VERY good observation. It's amazing what an enthusiastic staff (servers/managers) can do for a pool room. Sometimes it seems like I'm imposing on the staff when I come in to play in some places, like they have something else they'd rather be doing and I'm in their way...other times, bubbly, socialable, enthusiastic staff that seem very glad to see me make all the difference in my playing experience--and I always go back.

Exactly.

The staff can make or break a pool hall.

 

[JoeyA]

Joey,

I did not mean to come off as being critical. I read the same thing that you did.

All I meant was that if you make it 'cool' for a young crowd you might drive off the 'older' crowd. There needs to be some form of common ground....like a few attractive women as CJ suggested.

If you make it attractive to women (of all ages) the men (of all ages) will follow.

Regards & All the Best Y'a,
Rick

I know you weren't being critical. I was just pulling your leg about our age.

Making pool attractive to women is something that young and old dudes will have to agree on. :thumbup:
JoeyA

 

[Mr. Bond]

.... Pool rooms survive from area to area on different incomes, from alcohol to retail to restaurant income. Each room has unique demographics and problems. Pool as a whole doesn't always have the same problems as individual rooms do....

This is one of the best comments yet.

Pool has two aspects, the public side and the private side. They are not the same.
"What pool needs" has very little to do with the private side, and very little to do with an individual's enjoyment of pool on a personal level.

Likewise, dirty noisy ill equipped pool rooms (with no females) have had little to no effect on events like Johnston city, derby city, mosconi cup, tunica, etc etc....

Why does pool need to be fixed for you to enjoy playing ?

Professional pool, and the business of owning rooms is a whole different animal.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

I'm a millenial and all my friends are millienals, and I don't know a single person who plays bingo. If people our age play bingo then they are probably stupid hipsters that are doing it to be ironic. A couple of other thoughts a lot of league players I play with are around my age. If someone can figure out a way to make them interested in the game outside of just league you will have cracked the code. Overall I think Jerry's original post has a lot of merit. I have to drive 30 minutes each way to get to a rundown pool hall, and that is considered close. With gas being almost 4 bucks a gallon that's a lot to fade even though the table time is cheap. The lack of convience and comfortable surroundings make the game get passed over due to opportunity cost.

 

[JoeyA]

I'll give you my opinion based on what I have seen.

The Staff you hire is a very important factor when it comes to the cool factor. They have to be sociable, they have to be fun people. Having a fun staff sets the tone for the whole place. people follow their lead, it is contagous. The mood creates an environment that people feel good about coming to even if they are not in the mood for pool. The fun staff has a way of making the regulars feel like they have a second home that they can get away too and the new customers feel like they have found a place where they can fit in.

A clean environment along with a fun staff goes a long way IMO.

THIS!

JoeyA

 

[ENGLISH!]

I know you weren't being critical. I was just pulling your leg about our age.

Making pool attractive to women is something that young and old dudes will have to agree on. :thumbup:
JoeyA

Hey Joey,

I think we both have one leg on the same side of the 'age fence':wink:.

I just wish an attractive young lady was pulling my other leg her way.:wink:

Just a joke. I have been faithfully & happily married for 32 years.

But...an attractive young lady pulling me her way is a nice day dream.:wink:

That's 3 winks. Time to sign off.

Best to Y'a,
Rick

 

[one stroke]

C J you are spot on and I like your alternative descriptions. Streaming and various other forms of match videos are keeping pool down in the doldrums.
No other major sport has become so dependent on this low grade way of showcasing itself.
It is amazing that you are the only one that has managed to recognise this and that we need production quality to enhance this game.
I have turned many opportunities to use this form of presentation which I call Redneck TV.

How do you recognise a redneck - He is the one staring at a box of orange juice just because it says CONCENTRATE

So I guess by that it is fair to say he is part of the problem since he is marketing his videos all the time

However it's not near the problem as one is led to believe
First pool is not a major sport , never was never will be , it's questionable if its in minor sports category IMHO it's not even there , I would classify it as a third teir sport
All the TV and marketing in the world is not going to move the needle much , infact if it can just keep the current per capita level of players it would be doing something


1

 

[336Robin]

Declining Numbers

So I guess by that it is fair to say he is part of the problem since he is marketing his videos all the time

However it's not near the problem as one is led to believe
First pool is not a major sport , never was never will be , it's questionable if its in minor sports category IMHO it's not even there , I would classify it as a third teir sport
All the TV and marketing in the world is not going to move the needle much , infact if it can just keep the current per capita level of players it would be doing something


1

One Stroke,
I guess you missed the part about the declining numbers and pool rooms to say its not near the problem as one is led to believe.

Ask a Billiard Wholesaler....and he will relate the activity level decline in terms of construction of home game rooms.

Public exposure has a huge effect on sale of home game room equipment. Then we have all kinds of other factors.

It hard to do when you are continually trying to find better people to play but if we all just found one person who was brand new to recruit to the sport and make it a point to touch base and show them how to do things, that would help a lot.

Someone that is excited about pool goes and tells their friends and gets the friends involved.

Its probably the best recruitment tool that we have. It just doesn't help ones personal game but it does help the sport.

 

[JoeyA]

Libraries

True,
One way too remake the game just a bit......Bingo which Millenials love went to Ipads and all kinds of different forms...starwars bingo etc....

The way I think pool can reinvent itself is by going back to see what worked.

What worked for me as a kid was 8-ball mainly because it commonly played in a partners game and kids would watch me and my partner play all night to try and knock us off a bar table playing partners...there would quarters lined up all around the table to play.

What I think would work is Partner Games, whether it be 9 ball or 8 ball etc.

If someone would do something to popularize the Partner routine, maybe hold partner tournaments this might help. Handicapping has become popular so more people have a chance to win...It seems now that people want socialization along with that and a partners format would give them that.

I can see all kinds of action developing between sponsoring rooms in different parts of the country were someone to organize something like this.

If you get a new person to play you definitely want them to have fun. Partner games might help that.

Popularity is what gets you back on TV.

There is a lot of controversy going on right now about some libraries which have installed video games at the library. The libraries claim that the installation of the video games has increased the number of books being checked out of the library.

Perhaps we in the pool industry need to look at installing VP4 (Virtual Pool) in the pool rooms and charging time for playing the video games. This is just one example. I know that our pool room there are about 5-8 guys who play that HD Golf game RELIGIOUSLY. It may be that "pool rooms" needs to think outside of the box.

JoeyA

 

[Dunnn51]

One of the better threads on this subject. From the other side I see every problem mentioned in this thread. So happy this thread has not turned into " (insert single issue) is Killing Pool" direction. Pool rooms survive from area to area on different incomes, from alcohol to retail to restaurant income. Each room has unique demographics and problems. Pool as a whole doesn't always have the same problems as individual rooms do. Discussing ALL of the issues facing our sport is the best first step to start rectifying those issues one by one.

Kudos to you.

You have touched on an important issue here. POOL itself does not necessarily need to change; BUT the perception of pool Does need change.

Something like that Has to start from the top- down. Something like a "GOT MILK" campaign to get exposure and recognition while AT THE SAME TIME changing ppl's attitudes/perceptions would be a great start. (you can't start a fire without fuel)

 

[naji]

OK, so let's go through some stats. According to the annual Sporting Goods Association Player Participation poll the number of pool players in America is decreasing by an annual rate of about 10%. Their survey says that in 2005 about 39 million Americans classed themselves as pool players. In 2012 that number dropped all the way down to 21 million.

Are there any corollaries? Oh, yes. That 10% drop is about what we lose in poolrooms each year. People who do not have a place to play pool cannot be pool players.

Many pool players are middle aged or above. Some of us remember paying 10 cents a rack to play pool and 25 cents for each beer. So $6 per stick per hour and $4 per beer seems a bit steep. But it is in line with inflation and the fact is that those 10 cent poolrooms were profitable and the ones today are struggling. (At the same time a golf green fee back then was $2 and nobody complains today when they pay $80 or more.)

So the basic problem is keeping poolrooms alive. If they all die the game dies with them.

Room owners I talk to say they need to generate a little bit of profit from many different areas to stay open. A bit from the pool tables, a bit from the jukebox, a bit from the kitchen, a bit from the video games, a bit from the bar and a bit from the leagues.

But some rooms have hit on ways to do much better than the average. Reed Pierce set his room apart with a great lunch menu. It is so good that he had to hire folks to do delivery of all the take-out orders he began getting.

Phil Wyndham (I think I butchered that spelling) of the Chattanooga Billiard Club opened a cigar and brandy section.

So those who think creatively are doing pretty well with their rooms.

If you know of other formulas that work for rooms, tell us about them. We really do need to breathe some life into the foundation of pool, the poolroom.

(Another problem is that action no longer brings spectators to poolrooms in large numbers. Now that the average American lives 2 hours or less away from a casino the casinos have captured the action that was once the property of the corner poolroom.)

I had a long heated discussion with my wife yesterday, she wanted to actually drive 40 miles to visit an older couple friends we used to hang out with 15 years ago; the discussion brought about what do we do for entertainment and killing time; and how we used to visit face to face long long time ago. This electronic age brought everything to you and to be specific to your couch with internet speed that is inimaginable years back, why bother go out; so much options, 1000 TV channels at almost everyone's finger tips, trillion sex websites, hundreds of social media sites; thousands for other countries TV channels, TV screens that is replacing an entire wall in our living rooms, bringing in movie theaters, and POOL ACTION anywhere in the world, lucky if you have time to make popcorn, and lately many States are legalizing gambling, so casinos are much closer to people and it is not a yearly activity anymore
kids/sons/daughters have their heads stuck with that little white thing; GOD knows what they doing, and lucky they talk to their parents; (i will leave how their attitude changed over the years out of this post);

So an average adult in the USA barley have time for entertainment, let alone outside entertainment, after you deduct work time, house chores, commuting, Sex requirements time-lucky to get laid these days!!!, sleep, Facebook, AZB, other stuff, so needless to say we are lucky our brain can process so much information without collapsing..

Microsoft Giant Mr. Bill Gates said a while back, why do we send kids to school when schools can come to their living rooms; big statement ! who knows!


With all being said restaurants, cinemas, bowling, pool rooms, are lucky to be able to keep their doors open! oh do not forget the bad economy!!!

As far as pool! Poker in pool rooms is its worst enemy besides drinking, food, dart, ..etc, lately i see poker tables filled up, soon they will use pool tables to play poker on them!!

Oh! wife & I settled for watching a movie in home!! she did not have time to argue!!

 

[336Robin]

All of that

I had a long heated discussion with my wife yesterday, she wanted to actually drive 40 miles to visit an older couple friends we used to hang out with 15 years ago; the discussion brought about what do we do for entertainment and killing time; and how we used to visit face to face long long time ago. This electronic age brought everything to you and to be specific to your couch with internet speed that is inimaginable years back, why bother go out; so much options, 1000 TV channels at almost everyone's finger tips, trillion sex websites, hundreds of social media sites; thousands for other countries TV channels, TV screens that is replacing an entire wall in our living rooms, bringing in movie theaters, and POOL ACTION anywhere in the world, lucky if you have time to make popcorn, and lately many States are legalizing gambling, so casinos are much closer to people and it is not a yearly activity anymore
kids/sons/daughters have their heads stuck with that little white thing; GOD knows what they doing, and lucky they talk to their parents; (i will leave how their attitude changed over the years out of this post);

So an average adult in the USA barley have time for entertainment, let alone outside entertainment, after you deduct work time, house chores, commuting, Sex requirements time-lucky to get laid these days!!!, sleep, Facebook, AZB, other stuff, so needless to say we are lucky our brain can process so much information without collapsing..

Microsoft Giant Mr. Bill Gates said a while back, why do we send kids to school when schools can come to their living rooms; big statement ! who knows!


With all being said restaurants, cinemas, bowling, pool rooms, are lucky to be able to keep their doors open! oh do not forget the bad economy!!!

As far as pool! Poker in pool rooms is its worst enemy besides drinking, food, dart, ..etc, lately i see poker tables filled up, soon they will use pool tables to play poker on them!!

Oh! wife & I settled for watching a movie in home!! she did not have time to argue!!

Naji,
All of that...you mentioned above makes it extremely important for me to get to the pool room and have some buddies to play pool with and shoot the breeze. I just wish everyone who has a pool room nearby could have that experience. Its a refreshing change from becoming a digital native.

Another choice is amazingly now to live life....and do real things.

You are right we are digitally and physically about maxed out and we forget to interact and be real people.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

There is a lot of controversy going on right now about some libraries which have installed video games at the library. The libraries claim that the installation of the video games has increased the number of books being checked out of the library.

Perhaps we in the pool industry need to look at installing VP4 (Virtual Pool) in the pool rooms and charging time for playing the video games. This is just one example. I know that our pool room there are about 5-8 guys who play that HD Golf game RELIGIOUSLY. It may be that "pool rooms" needs to think outside of the box.

JoeyA

Granted Golden Tee may get a lot of play in bars, but I'd be leery of using video games as an attraction. Arcades may be the only entertainment venue more scarce in 2013 than pool rooms. The advent of superior home gaming technology pretty much put them all out of business by the mid 2000s.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Money gets you back on TV.

Money gets you back on TV.....you pay to play, then the popularity comes back

What worked in the past was showcasing the characters, not senseless "woofing" back and forth (unless it was on TV). Minnesota Fats and Willie Mosconi capitalized off the movie 'The Hustler' and then Tom Cruise and Paul Newman created the most buzz with 'The Color of Money'. .

Putting money into streaming video doesn't help the game nationally in the least bit, and doesn't bring new people into the game at all. It's really a waste of time, EXCEPT for those that already follow and like the game. 'The Game is the Teacher'

True,
One way too remake the game just a bit......Bingo which Millenials love went to Ipads and all kinds of different forms...starwars bingo etc....

The way I think pool can reinvent itself is by going back to see what worked.

What worked for me as a kid was 8-ball mainly because it commonly played in a partners game and kids would watch me and my partner play all night to try and knock us off a bar table playing partners...there would quarters lined up all around the table to play.

What I think would work is Partner Games, whether it be 9 ball or 8 ball etc.

If someone would do something to popularize the Partner routine, maybe hold partner tournaments this might help. Handicapping has become popular so more people have a chance to win...It seems now that people want socialization along with that and a partners format would give them that.

I can see all kinds of action developing between sponsoring rooms in different parts of the country were someone to organize something like this.

If you get a new person to play you definitely want them to have fun. Partner games might help that.

Popularity is what gets you back on TV.

 

[336Robin]

Television Plays its Part

Money gets you back on TV.....you pay to play, then the popularity comes back

What worked in the past was showcasing the characters, not senseless "woofing" back and forth (unless it was on TV). Minnesota Fats and Willie Mosconi capitalized off the movie 'The Hustler' and then Tom Cruise and Paul Newman created the most buzz with 'The Color of Money'. .

Putting money into streaming video doesn't help the game nationally in the least bit, and doesn't bring new people into the game at all. It's really a waste of time, EXCEPT for those that already follow and like the game. 'The Game is the Teacher'

CJ,
I certainly wont completely disagree with your statement, because TV has showcased pool before and things went well. At least we perceived them as well. The action, the money and the underbelly of pool is exciting to a segment of the general public and it probably will get some people playing no doubt and that lifts popularity. A surge of any kind at this point would be a welcome thing Im sure.

Even today Minnesota Fats vs. Willie Mosconi is remember by a generation of children who watched the drama play out on television.

 

[Fatboy]

Money gets you back on TV.....you pay to play, then the popularity comes back

What worked in the past was showcasing the characters, not senseless "woofing" back and forth (unless it was on TV). Minnesota Fats and Willie Mosconi capitalized off the movie 'The Hustler' and then Tom Cruise and Paul Newman created the most buzz with 'The Color of Money'. .

Putting money into streaming video doesn't help the game nationally in the least bit, and doesn't bring new people into the game at all. It's really a waste of time, EXCEPT for those that already follow and like the game. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Hollywood is pretty smart, and they havent made a pool movie since COM and COM did very good, wonder what scared them off? they had a perfect set up for a sequel too. and now nothing since 86. Scary. I guess the CGI bullshit Batman movies sell better IDK, cant stand them, watched part of one once-i'd rather watch the grass grow.

 

[Goldy]

We have a great opportunity to revitalize a revenue stream for billiards, and that is through internet streaming. This is where entertainment is headed in the first place. Terrestrial Television Sets will not be completely eliminated from the equation, but digital media will boast higher monetization in the future.

What is sad is we have all kinds of individuals jumping on the bandwagon and doing live streaming bartering the content they capture for "free streaming services"! That trade is a detriment to potential advertising revenue.

There is plenty of exposure of billiards online at this point. It is grossly over saturated actually. And 99% of it is free to replay, and again, we don't see a dime of the advertising.

There needs to be a good force of like minded individuals to combat the selling out of content for in trade for the service. Even though it won't be completely eliminated, it can be somewhat controlled and funneled into our own billiard streaming network to tout higher paying advertisers, and advertisers outside of the billiard industry. I have somewhat of the infrastructure already in place.

ESPN was spoiled long ago, and they really are uninterested from what I've gathered. Lets start our own.

Zach.