The Removal Of The Design Your Dream Thread

[Korsakoff]

It’s the Bourbon again. Normally don’t read this, but it’s almost like watching a train wreck...

I’m brand new and don’t know all the details of this unfortunate event (unfortunate on many levels). What I don’t understand is perseverating on the issue.

The whole thing about (if I understand correctly) the person who purchased the equipment allegedly saying they would complete the cue - I won’t even address that. It’s just weird. Maybe a good intention, but much more like a relative promising to pay you back or remembering you in their will.

Should the story be spread on Social Media? Absolutely! The person is no longer trustworthy via their “word”, so anything to help others from being left hanging I’m sure is greatly appreciated.

And, condolences to the person who was the one actually screwed in this scenario. There will assuredly be other situations where you come out on the short end of the deal, and each one hurts, makes you angry and makes you trust others just a little less.

It’s the perseveration that gets me. Shoulda-woulda-coulda. Anytime you hear yourself using those words, you are not dealing with reality. You are reacting in spite of it.

Promise broken; any excuse does not change the fact. Seven years have passed (I think), and nothing has changed. Because it never was ever going to change and never will.

Message passed on Social Media: Do business at your own risk. Will the winner get a cue? Not from the person who pledged it. Was there an injustice committed? Yes. Is there any recourse? No.

From the 50,000 foot level, there just doesn’t seem to be that much to talk about. Bad things happen. This was one. It’s over. Time to move on.

 

[dr9ball]

The thread is not gone. It was just moved out of the main site. I am open to the idea of moving it back, without allowing any more replies on it. I was torn between that and removing it last night when it all blew up, and went with moving it out of the main forum.

As for additional mods, we have discussed the idea before and I am open to that too.

As a compromise, maybe we could have a Archived Closed threads Folder where "closed" threads can be searched and viewed but not replied to.

 

[Jaden]

Wow crazy...

It is absolutely crazy that it came to this.

I'm the first one came on and called bs when I saw bs's (it's kinda ironic that his initials are bs)post about his cancer that kept him from finishing the cue that he was miraculously cured of since. Considering that I was personally five feet from him while playing in a mezz tour event while he was supposedly in the throws off this deadly cancer.

As I stated in my first bs calling post. It wouldn't have mattered. He was shining the guy on while he was selling his equipment. You had to have followed the whole thing as it was going down to really understand.

If you're selling your equipment to pay for cancer treatment, then why are you telling the guy you're still working on the cue and playing in pool tournaments?

It's just ridiculous that anyone would believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Jaden

P.s. this is not bullying anyone, it's calling a spade a spade .

 

[dbgordie]

It is absolutely crazy that it came to this.

I'm the first one came on and called bs when I saw bs's (it's kinda ironic that his initials are bs)post about his cancer that kept him from finishing the cue that he was miraculously cured of since. Considering that I was personally five feet from him while playing in a mezz tour event while he was supposedly in the throws off this deadly cancer.

As I stated in my first bs calling post. It wouldn't have mattered. He was shining the guy on while he was selling his equipment. You had to have followed the whole thing as it was going down to really understand.

If you're selling your equipment to pay for cancer treatment, then why are you telling the guy you're still working on the cue and playing in pool tournaments?

It's just ridiculous that anyone would believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Jaden

P.s. this is not bullying anyone, it's calling a spade a spade .

So you saw him playing pool and that means it's all a lie. He didn't have cancer cuz you saw him playing pool? That's messed up. He's not allowed to play pool because of what you think. He has to give up what he loves for your opinion. Maybe he was feeling better. Or in between treatments. Who are you to take that away from him?

 

[Lonestar_jim]

I think Brian used to bump the thread every quarter or 6 months. I was all in on that chit, right ?
Then he started slacking and old cue maker got Cancer and and I was like KFCU this thread. So yea, flush it sweep it under the rug. This ain't a history book. Mods must have gagged on the whole thing, right ?

No offense Brian...it was inevitable.

Who got banned ?

 

[Lonestar_jim]

OMG, I think I voted for viewable.
KFUC !!!

No recuerdo.

 

[dbgordie]

I think Brian used to bump the thread every quarter or 6 months. I was all in on that chit, right ?
Then he started slacking and old cue maker got Cancer and and I was like KFCU this thread. So yea, flush it sweep it under the rug. This ain't a history book. Mods must have gagged on the whole thing, right ?

No offense Brian...it was inevitable.

Who got banned ?

This is why it needs to go. Bump the thread? Keep it going? Wow! WTF!! All in on that chit.

 

[ibuycues]

I voted to close the thread.
Any possible usefulness of the thread has long since passed.
After eight years, continuation does not serve a greater good.
Bill no longer makes cues, no longer has his equipment, and has serious health issues.
As I said in the thread, having a little grace feels right. And is best for AZB.
The pound of flesh has definitely been extracted.
Everyone has their strongly held views.
I am not trying to change anyone, but this is my considered opinion.
Best.

Will Prout

 

[RiverCity]

I voted to close the thread.
Any possible usefulness of the thread has long since passed.
After eight years, continuation does not serve a greater good.
Bill no longer makes cues, no longer has his equipment, and has serious health issues.
As I said in the thread, having a little grace feels right. And is best for AZB.
The pound of flesh has definitely been extracted.
Everyone has their strongly held views.
I am not trying to change anyone, but this is my considered opinion.
Best.

Will Prout

Tap tap tap!

 

[I Got Lucky]

Jeez... the statute of limitations on many crimes is less than 8 years. Bills not taking anyones money and guys here are willing to wait 10 years for a cue that may or may not get built.

LET IT GO.

 

[Jaden]

Nope...

So you saw him playing pool and that means it's all a lie. He didn't have cancer cuz you saw him playing pool? That's messed up. He's not allowed to play pool because of what you think. He has to give up what he loves for your opinion. Maybe he was feeling better. Or in between treatments. Who are you to take that away from him?

A proven liar claims to have had cancer all while telling the person he was still working on the cue and playing pool in tourneys while selling his equipment.

Not messed up at all. You remind me of those girlfriends who do something wrong like cheating and then try and turn it around on you when you call them on it with some bs like,"you don't trust me, you're checking up on me?"

Get out of here with that shit.

Even if the guy did have cancer it's not an excuse for the way he handled it and haven't you ever read the boy who cried wolf. I mean how many lies does a person have to tell before you don't believe a word he says?


Jaden

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Some of the grace Will spoke of so eloquently sinks in slowly with me and so instead of leaving the DYD thread open WITH further participation, I think it would be best if it were left just viewable as a reference for it being a rather historic event on AZB. Also, to still have access to some very interesting design submissions.

Grace can go both ways, however and it still would be nice to think that Bill Stroud might someday find it within himself to simply admit he messed up and apologize for it. He still has this choice every day. Never too late.

Thanks to all who have participated in this poll thus far and anyone who hasn't voted yet, please do. Throughout the voting, locking up the thread and keeping it unviewable has been in last place with the other two options well ahead and very close.

thx,
brian kc

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Hi Brian
Dang. I'm thinking you need a hug........or at least a dance. :dance:
I know. Not the time but at least I'm not insulting your intelligence.

Michael;

Maybe a dance with a hug? :grin-square:

Hope all is well in your world, sir.

best,
brian kc

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

I had some thoughts I would like to share, but first I would like to extend an apology to the community and Brian specifically. I joined because of my love of pool of 25+ years, not to argue with people,I have enjoyed your posts for years before I ever made an account Brian.

You acknowledged that using "if" instead of "since" was a bad choice of words, I also chose my words quite poorly. Saying I would like to speak to a few of you in person after my previous comments was a very poor choice of words.

Me speaking with anyone would have started with me buying you a beer and after a few games of pool having a normal conversation in private about why I thought whatever comments were in bad taste. I mentioned karma, karma would be getting called out in a public arena over comments, nobody physically assaulted Bill, so I personally didn't equate that comment to anything physical when I made it but I could see how someone would.

As for the contest; The winner said he was happy to wait for Jake to finish the cue, Jake made a public statement that he was working on the cue and that the winner would receive it, the winner hasn't logged in over a year and may have already received the cue? Since I haven't been here that long, I am sure my word doesn't hold much weight but I vouch for Jake, and have no doubt he will come though in due time.

I am also pretty sure some guys who have been here for awhile such as Deano can vouch for Jake as well as his cue building skills and integrity.

But, unfortunately one thing the DYD thread has shown us is sometimes even people with greatest reputations don't come through

In the event that Jake doesn't come through, I think cuesblues had an excellent idea.

you came on pretty strong in the other thread, eihi. Glad to see you in a much calmer frame of mind.

I've been accused of many things but being thin-skinned isn't one of them.

So, therefore, your apology to me is appreciated and accepted.

And your opinions on this topic, even though we disagree on much of it, are also appreciated.

If you have a problem with any of this, maybe we should have a little talk.

best,
brian kc

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

In addition to Josswest collector and seller, don't forget Josswest is my number one player as well, as if that is a big revelation considering it's been in my signature for years, and I've sold more Josswests online than anyone in the last few years.
The fact that I am a Josswest collector is strategically hidden in my signature and avatar, hidden so nobody other than the people who read my comment will ever know.

For the sake of more disclosure I stick up for anyone being bullied and have my entire life.
Now you want to attempt to bully me for sticking up for a guy who screwed up and deserved to be called out.
I never said a word about all the negative comments or lend any support for Bill Stroud until now because in my opinion it transformed from public shaming into classic bullying.
The intent of the initial thread lost a lot of support due to bullying, and now the thread is gone.
I highly doubt my involvement with Josswest cues had much to do with that.

Ted;

In the other thread there was an accusation made against me that I cheated on my design submission and it was complete bullshit. Rather than recognizing that; you decided to post a baseball analogy along with your added condemnation for my cheating.

Curious, as a man who claims to do right his whole life, when it's shown that you made a mistake by calling someone (me) a cheat then is shown that no cheating ever occurred, do you also lack what it takes to step up and say you were wrong? Wouldn't expect you to go so far as an apology but an acknowledgement?

Or do you figure I deserved the lie since I'm a bully in your view?

best,
brian kc

 

[cuesblues]

Ted;

In the other thread there was an accusation made against me that I cheated on my design submission and it was complete bullshit. Rather than recognizing that; you decided to post a baseball analogy along with your added condemnation for my cheating.

Curious, as a man who claims to do right his whole life, when it's shown that you made a mistake by calling someone (me) a cheat then is shown that no cheating ever occurred, do you also lack what it takes to step up and say you were wrong? Wouldn't expect you to go so far as an apology but an acknowledgement?

Or do you figure I deserved the lie since I'm a bully in your view?

best,
brian kc

Brian,

I just drew the analogy, nobody was named or called out.
Probably because I didn't know who did it, I was just sick and tired this crap after 8 years.
I also haven't read the part about Bill's cancer and haven't commented about that either.
Other than 5 or 6 scamming cuemakers, a scamming casemaker, and a scamming fly by night seller here and there I've never uttered a negative word publicly.
The fact that I made a lame analogy honestly not meant to hurt anyones feelings, especially yours, was out of line, and I apologize for that.
My lack of artistic skills is the second reason I didn't enter the contest.
Had this not gone on for 8 years I wouldn't have said a word about it.

When Lee Peppers and a few others took thousands of dollars from people and did it knowing they were sick and unable to build cues, never paid people back, and everyone gave them a free pass.
I thought it was appalling, but after 24 hours it would have been like beating a dead horse to keep bringing it up.
Here we are 8 years later guys are still beating up Bill Stroud.
I was upset with the double standard, and the bullying of Bill Stroud who has done quite a bit as an innovator in cuemaking.
Last night I decided to sit back and and watch this lame sequel implode, and go the way of the original thread.
Now there are guys who just want to start shit and dont care about anyone involved or pool cues.
The majority is tired of it and the moderators will see that.


Peace
Ted

 

[Spimp13]

I remember that thread, as well as back then when both my wife and I worked up drawings for the cue for our submissions. At the very least the thread should remain here to show off not only what happened, but the beautiful entries that were submitted.

Matt

 

[WildWing]

I voted to close the thread.
Any possible usefulness of the thread has long since passed.
After eight years, continuation does not serve a greater good.
Bill no longer makes cues, no longer has his equipment, and has serious health issues.
As I said in the thread, having a little grace feels right. And is best for AZB.
The pound of flesh has definitely been extracted.
Everyone has their strongly held views.
I am not trying to change anyone, but this is my considered opinion.
Best.

Will Prout

This is the correct view, erudite, and the same vote as I. For what it's worth:

For cue makers: Don't attempt a free contest. Cue making is a fragile, precarious endeavor, even for the accomplished makers.

For cue buyers: Design your dream cue. Commission an active cue maker to build it. Then, when you receive it, display it on the Cue and Case Gallery forum. If your design taste displays ample sagacity and taste, every one of us will be happy. Avoid salivating over a free lunch.

All the best,
WW

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Brian,

I just drew the analogy, nobody was named or called out.
Probably because I didn't know who did it, I was just sick and tired this crap after 8 years.
I also haven't read the part about Bill's cancer and haven't commented about that either.
Other than 5 or 6 scamming cuemakers, a scamming casemaker, and a scamming fly by night seller here and there I've never uttered a negative word publicly.
The fact that I made a lame analogy honestly not meant to hurt anyones feelings, especially yours, was out of line, and I apologize for that.
My lack of artistic skills is the second reason I didn't enter the contest.
Had this not gone on for 8 years I wouldn't have said a word about it.

When Lee Peppers and a few others took thousands of dollars from people and did it knowing they were sick and unable to build cues, never paid people back, and everyone gave them a free pass.
I thought it was appalling, but after 24 hours it would have been like beating a dead horse to keep bringing it up.
Here we are 8 years later guys are still beating up Bill Stroud.
I was upset with the double standard, and the bullying of Bill Stroud who has done quite a bit as an innovator in cuemaking.
Last night I decided to sit back and and watch this lame sequel implode, and go the way of the original thread.
Now there are guys who just want to start shit and dont care about anyone involved or pool cues.
The majority is tired of it and the moderators will see that.


Peace
Ted

Thanks for the clarification, Ted. We're good.

I think that there may have been less of a double standard than what you're thinking in that it seems quite a few in the AZ community felt duped over how the DYD contest went and the sheer magnitude of it. Then all of the aftermath. It felt condescending and arrogant. With his most recent post, which frankly came as a surprise, he again chose not to apologize but instead he admonished us not to make quick judgements. wth!

A number of times you have brought up his contributions and innovations as a cuemaker. What does any of that have to do with how he handled the DYD contest and the lack of integrity? It comes across like you feel that an innovative person who makes great cues should get treated differently than a less innovative person when they do wrong. From my perspective these should be completely separate matters.

Lastly, where you say "The majority is tired of it" isn't exactly what the poll is indicating, imo.

best,
brian kc

 

[pt109]

I had some thoughts I would like to share, but first I would like to extend an apology to the community and Brian specifically. I joined because of my love of pool of 25+ years, not to argue with people,I have enjoyed your posts for years before I ever made an account Brian.

You acknowledged that using "if" instead of "since" was a bad choice of words, I also chose my words quite poorly. Saying I would like to speak to a few of you in person after my previous comments was a very poor choice of words.

Me speaking with anyone would have started with me buying you a beer and after a few games of pool having a normal conversation in private about why I thought whatever comments were in bad taste. I mentioned karma, karma would be getting called out in a public arena over comments, nobody physically assaulted Bill, so I personally didn't equate that comment to anything physical when I made it but I could see how someone would.

As for the contest; The winner said he was happy to wait for Jake to finish the cue, Jake made a public statement that he was working on the cue and that the winner would receive it, the winner hasn't logged in over a year and may have already received the cue? Since I haven't been here that long, I am sure my word doesn't hold much weight but I vouch for Jake, and have no doubt he will come though in due time.

I am also pretty sure some guys who have been here for awhile such as Deano can vouch for Jake as well as his cue building skills and integrity.

But, unfortunately one thing the DYD thread has shown us is sometimes even people with greatest reputations don't come through

In the event that Jake doesn't come through, I think cuesblues had an excellent idea.

A different look at eihi and it made me feel much better.