I grew up in a small town of about 35,000. In 1970 there were so many actual pool rooms that I can't remember them all. My guess would be somewhere between 10 and 20. Now there are none. I moved away from my home town when I retired because of crime and drugs, but that is another story. Where I live now there is no pool room. I thought about opening a small one when I retired two years ago and talked to a real estate person, because there is a lot of nice property here that seems to be empty. The bottom line is investors are buying up properties here and using them for tax write offs, which is good for them, but bad for someone wanting to start a small business. Also the image for pool here is really bad. You say pool here, and they think drugs and degenerates. Pool is literally a 4 letter word where I live now, the equal of the "F" word, and I'm not kidding. I was kind of shocked by this, but always let people know that I don't play in bars, and that I play in leagues and tournaments, which is true, and that seems to make it ok. I travel over 60 miles one way, sometimes several times a week, just to play pool, not in a bar. I am in my sixties now, and the driving is starting to take a toll on me. I am starting to look at my options again. I don't have room in my house for a table and haven't figured out what to do yet.
There Is NO Hope For Pro Pool IMO
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
OK I understand :thumbup:
I agree. This is why are compete radicalization of pool is required. New blood with new thinking...
I empathise with your situation. No pool room where I live either and have to travel 20 miles to the nearest table. A total clean up of the game is required. I go with the word radicalisation as it seems the most appropriate. This can only be done with education through a leading national and international organisation or council.
Hmmmm...
I may have enough determination, brains, skill and a well-defined concept (solutions)...
Anybody open-minded, with some money and a true interest in betterment of our beloved sport - send me a PM :welcome:
Ooohhhh: and I am dead serious about it
Thats the problem.
There are unlimited people out there with the the ideas and energy to spend other peoples money. Bettering the game is a distant second place to building a viable and sustainable business. If you build a solid business it will better the game. It doesnt work the other way around. History has proven that time and again.
Historically most people's plan for how to make pro pool make money is based on "Well IF XYX Happens...." without accounting for the fact that XYZ has never ever happened before in history. This thread pops up every month or so, There are no new ideas or quick fixes. Everything comes down to the fact that watching pool does not interest the vast majority of people in this country.
Correctamundo. Like the one that goes something to the effect of: "Start a professional tour/league with big name, deep pocket sponsors from outside the industry, get a TV contract with a major cable company, have the players promote the hell out of it and visit children's hospitals at every stop with the local TV news covering it, have a hit reality show that's set in a pool room, get pool in the Olympics..."
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If they included a pool hall in the next edition of GTA and allowed players to spear their
opponents thru an eye with broken jagged cue and then stomp them into the carpet, or shoot them, I think the game would make a resurgence.
Movies not so much. Disney studios probably wouldn't be doing it. Unless it was the Little Mermaid against the evil Forest faeries.
The movie that I have been waiting for is Hang the Nine. These days a person would have to make a pool movie that included guns, drugs etc. Too bad but I doubt that a remake of somewhat like the COM probably won't do it.
From the trailer, Hang the Nine seems like it includes a bit of the seamier side of pool
and lives involved. Its looking like a decent movie. I would buy it.
No one is going to watch a feel good movie where the winner of a pool tournament also wins the girl at the end. Unless the girl at the end happens to be a pole dancer as well.
If they combined a traveling Hustler (Tom Cruise) with Jack Reacher with lots of pool hall fights, it might work.
See, Jack Reacher's niece gets involved with the wrong crowd and disappears. He has to disguise himself as a pool hustler and gets to whack players
he meets in his travels in his quest to find her. Nothing but good pool with tons of bar and hall fights. Nothing else.
He eventually finds her and takes her to Disney Land where she falls off the ride at Space Mountain and dies.
Also, Bruce Willis would be Jack's stake Horse.
opponents thru an eye with broken jagged cue and then stomp them into the carpet, or shoot them, I think the game would make a resurgence.
Movies not so much. Disney studios probably wouldn't be doing it. Unless it was the Little Mermaid against the evil Forest faeries.
The movie that I have been waiting for is Hang the Nine. These days a person would have to make a pool movie that included guns, drugs etc. Too bad but I doubt that a remake of somewhat like the COM probably won't do it.
From the trailer, Hang the Nine seems like it includes a bit of the seamier side of pool
and lives involved. Its looking like a decent movie. I would buy it.
No one is going to watch a feel good movie where the winner of a pool tournament also wins the girl at the end. Unless the girl at the end happens to be a pole dancer as well.
If they combined a traveling Hustler (Tom Cruise) with Jack Reacher with lots of pool hall fights, it might work.
See, Jack Reacher's niece gets involved with the wrong crowd and disappears. He has to disguise himself as a pool hustler and gets to whack players
he meets in his travels in his quest to find her. Nothing but good pool with tons of bar and hall fights. Nothing else.
He eventually finds her and takes her to Disney Land where she falls off the ride at Space Mountain and dies.
Also, Bruce Willis would be Jack's stake Horse.
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Bingo! Pool's business model needs to work. For it to ever work, many players need to drop their sense of entitlement and care a lot more about working with proprietors to make the pro pool product work. The idea that you "reap what you sow" is a foreign concept to far too many pro players. Until they get it, they won't work with pool's entrepreneurs.
Ya forget all about Golf status that's totally unattainable but Bowling numbers may be
But even that seems distant right now
1
You know what things change, and as the World turns, and Time moves on people interests change.
I recall in the San Fernando Valley of LA County in the early 60’s a guy who was Jackie Cougan of Adam Family Fame, brother opened this hobby shop devoted to SLOT CAR Racing Shop in North Hollywood, CA. It was maybe 1962. He had One 8 or 10 lane track, and people were standing in line to buy a car kit, components, or take their turn on the track buy time with quarters in a meter.
Than by chance the Cousin of Willie Moscow the Pool Player opened Race Time in Burbank CA, and another Slot Car Racing Shop. It had three or 3-4 Tacks with 8 lanes, again the people, money flowed like a broken fire hydrant ever night.
Soon Slot Car Racing Shops were opening all over LA County, and the sport of Racing Slot Cars that originated in Europe too off faster than a wild fire.
This high lasted maybe 3-5 years, and soon the sport was almost dead. I am told there are sill some slot car tracks around, and some die hard racers. But lets say the day when you open a slot car racing shop, made a killing in a very short time, with not a big investment are over.
Things change, get hot, go cold, and some time never die, but never again reach the peak of what they were long ago.
I recall in the San Fernando Valley of LA County in the early 60’s a guy who was Jackie Cougan of Adam Family Fame, brother opened this hobby shop devoted to SLOT CAR Racing Shop in North Hollywood, CA. It was maybe 1962. He had One 8 or 10 lane track, and people were standing in line to buy a car kit, components, or take their turn on the track buy time with quarters in a meter.
Than by chance the Cousin of Willie Moscow the Pool Player opened Race Time in Burbank CA, and another Slot Car Racing Shop. It had three or 3-4 Tacks with 8 lanes, again the people, money flowed like a broken fire hydrant ever night.
Soon Slot Car Racing Shops were opening all over LA County, and the sport of Racing Slot Cars that originated in Europe too off faster than a wild fire.
This high lasted maybe 3-5 years, and soon the sport was almost dead. I am told there are sill some slot car tracks around, and some die hard racers. But lets say the day when you open a slot car racing shop, made a killing in a very short time, with not a big investment are over.
Things change, get hot, go cold, and some time never die, but never again reach the peak of what they were long ago.
I used to think 8 ball was the answer too, but it certainly is not. 8 ball is far too easy of a game for these top notch players. They hardly ever miss. The only opportunities for the opponent come from a dry break or a scratch on the break.
The old concepts and ideas about "what pool needs" must die for the Game to Live.
The problem is, for the most part "everybody's trying to figure out how to make the game better for TV," when that will NEVER be the solution because it violates the golden laws of marketing and advertising. "people like {to watch} people, not things or games" CJ Wiley - Pool's no exception, it's the "sample example" and few can see it.
Golf and Baseball are horrible TV games, but they brand the game through the players and that's the secret recipe. Branding starts with people promoting the players, then the games and the products.
Until the players are branded NO ONE will ever want to watch anyone play the game. You see people don't like to watch any games, they like to watch people play games....there's a difference and until someone "real eyeses" this we will remain stuck where we are......forever.
The old concepts and ideas about "what pool needs" must die for the Game to Live.
The solution is to find a way to make the players shine, and as long as the promoters and "others" want to be in the spotlight this will never happen. Look at all the past sports, this process was evident in EVERY ONE OF THEM......the players became interesting and then the game became popular.....Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, and Gary Player recognized this formula and SUPERCHARGED golf through the TV Show "Shell's Wonderful World of Golf".......can anyone name any of the promoters in golf??? Not at all, because they stayed behind the scenes where they belonged ie: IMG* for example.
*
IMG helps companies raise their profile and create brand connections through golf. IMG's leadership in all facets of golf gives our clients and customers unlimited access to the people, places and organizations driving the sport. While we're often best known for the marquee players we represent, our reach extends far beyond the playing green.
IMG Golf is the gateway into the golf lifestyle — we own, manage or operate over 30 of the world’s leading golf events, and manage more preeminent talent than any other company. Corporations pair up with IMG to connect with golf's highly desirable demographics through sponsorships and events. Players attend our training Academies, secure top endorsements and licensing deals, play on courses we design and manage, and compete in prestigious tournaments — many of which we operate.
Our global expertise in golf includes:
World-class talent management
Premium event management
Global media production and distribution
Award-winning course design
Corporate marketing and hospitality
Corporate consulting
Brand licensing
Digital media
The problem is, for the most part "everybody's trying to figure out how to make the game better for TV," when that will NEVER be the solution because it violates the golden laws of marketing and advertising. "people like {to watch} people, not things or games" CJ Wiley - Pool's no exception, it's the "sample example" and few can see it.
Golf and Baseball are horrible TV games, but they brand the game through the players and that's the secret recipe. Branding starts with people promoting the players, then the games and the products.
Until the players are branded NO ONE will ever want to watch anyone play the game. You see people don't like to watch any games, they like to watch people play games....there's a difference and until someone "real eyeses" this we will remain stuck where we are......forever.
The old concepts and ideas about "what pool needs" must die for the Game to Live.
The solution is to find a way to make the players shine, and as long as the promoters and "others" want to be in the spotlight this will never happen. Look at all the past sports, this process was evident in EVERY ONE OF THEM......the players became interesting and then the game became popular.....Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, and Gary Player recognized this formula and SUPERCHARGED golf through the TV Show "Shell's Wonderful World of Golf".......can anyone name any of the promoters in golf??? Not at all, because they stayed behind the scenes where they belonged ie: IMG* for example.
*
IMG helps companies raise their profile and create brand connections through golf. IMG's leadership in all facets of golf gives our clients and customers unlimited access to the people, places and organizations driving the sport. While we're often best known for the marquee players we represent, our reach extends far beyond the playing green.
IMG Golf is the gateway into the golf lifestyle — we own, manage or operate over 30 of the world’s leading golf events, and manage more preeminent talent than any other company. Corporations pair up with IMG to connect with golf's highly desirable demographics through sponsorships and events. Players attend our training Academies, secure top endorsements and licensing deals, play on courses we design and manage, and compete in prestigious tournaments — many of which we operate.
Our global expertise in golf includes:
World-class talent management
Premium event management
Global media production and distribution
Award-winning course design
Corporate marketing and hospitality
Corporate consulting
Brand licensing
Digital media
I contacted the above company a few years ago and agree with you about what the pool package should look like. The company showed no interest, however in saying that, I never really had a product worth presenting either! I've worked with some of the biggest brands in the world and have shoved pool in front of some of them only for 'pool players' to turn the opportunity down simply because they couldn't 'real eyeses' it :thumb up:
Now CJ, I am working everyday towards creating opportunities for players with many concepts and features geared for todays media channels. As you mentioned the promoters are secondary to the fame side but are primary to the financial side. No player will EVER make as much revenue as the promoter AND NOR SHOULD THEY!
- this should be the motive of any promoter!
It would be great to be able to pitch / showcase ideas, a place where individuals could show their ways knowing that a panel of people would take them seriously and not try to gate crash a scenario and ruin a good party!
But like anything in life. If its worth doing, then its worth doing it well - It will just take me longer to get there! But hey, what's the rush :thumbup:
This is why I've written elsewhere. Pool is not ready for TV coverage today or tomorrow. A 3-5 year plan and perhaps it could be. The plan of action needs to be the right one. A plan that doesn't create a new set of rules for pool players to abide to. :thumbup:
Most do not understand the real meanings of the above which lead to confusion and poor conclusions.
Pool needs to step back from itself and simplify everything.
The 4 E's is a place to start...
Economics
Education
Enforcement
Environment
Have an understanding of the 4 E's and we start to address and explore new things.
To F4£K UP the 4 E's is also very simple as it is not everyone that can think outside the box - but it is something one can learn if they choose :thumbup:
You're absolutely right. The U. S. Open 8-ball tournament in July truly sucked. These guys never miss when given the opportunity to shoot any ball. If they make a ball on the break they are out. PERIOD. Ten ball is the only game in my opinion. 14.1 is great but only lovers of the game like it.
I think you can make it a cool game to watch at the pro level, but it requires slow cloth and small pockets like the IPT model to make it viable. Also probably have to play take what you make on the break.
However, I think Justin's post above is on the money. Yeah I would love if pool as a sport became huge. It would be much easier for me to play and discuss the game with friends, more books and materials available at easier locations, higher production values. But I've just come to deal with the fact that it never has been that and isn't going to be. Instead I'm pretty darn happy with what we have. Let me break it down like this. When I first started playing pool there was watered down 9 ball edited to death on ESPN and Accu-Stats. That was it. Now people have realized it's a niche game but they are trying their asses off to appeal to that niche. The result is we have waaaay more pool programing and stuff than ever. TAR, Accu-Stats, POV, InsidePool etc. Yeah it's streaming, but they know their viewers are a hardcore audience so they gear it to us. It's on the computer but everything about it is much better. Cotton and JJ in the booth instead of Mitch and Hopkins. All sorts of games (including 1 pocket and straight pool) and played in LONG sets. I love it. Who cares if I'm part of a small group or not. Yeah there is room for improvement, but I'd take this over what I was able to see in the mid to late 90s. If pro pool did become huge you may not like what it would become.
If pro pool did become huge you may not like what it would become.
This is another serious question to be asked!
Pool can make it on TV but like with anything on the box today it would be diluted!
To sell out or not to sell out? - That's the question. Or put another way:
To compromise or NOT to compromise?
Personally, I'd compromise and make it work - just as in life! :thumbup:
Why does everyone on this forum want the best player to always win?
What is wrong with having luck and seeing the best players lose?
If the best players always win, why even have tournaments. Just hand them the money.
All games have luck involved. Luck gives a lesser skilled player a chance.
Without luck, you won't have many players shooting against people like Shane.
Keep the luck in the game and throw the money up in the air and give everyone a chance to catch some.
Heck...if I didn't have luck, I'd never play.
And many would rather be lucky than good.:thumbup::thumbup:
Just like the Mosconi Cup. It would be nice to see team USA win, but whoever wins, does not prove one team is better than the other. They maybe better that one week or had more luck that one week, but it still doesn't prove who is better.
Nothing wrong with playing and getting lucky.
What is wrong with having luck and seeing the best players lose?
If the best players always win, why even have tournaments. Just hand them the money.
All games have luck involved. Luck gives a lesser skilled player a chance.
Without luck, you won't have many players shooting against people like Shane.
Keep the luck in the game and throw the money up in the air and give everyone a chance to catch some.
Heck...if I didn't have luck, I'd never play.
And many would rather be lucky than good.:thumbup::thumbup:
Just like the Mosconi Cup. It would be nice to see team USA win, but whoever wins, does not prove one team is better than the other. They maybe better that one week or had more luck that one week, but it still doesn't prove who is better.
Nothing wrong with playing and getting lucky.
Why does everyone on this forum want the best player to always win?
What is wrong with having luck and seeing the best players lose?
If the best players always win, why even have tournaments. Just hand them the money.
All games have luck involved. Luck gives a lesser skilled player a chance.
Without luck, you won't have many players shooting against people like Shane.
Keep the luck in the game and throw the money up in the air and give everyone a chance to catch some.
Heck...if I didn't have luck, I'd never play.
And many would rather be lucky than good.:thumbup::thumbup:
Just like the Mosconi Cup. It would be nice to see team USA win, but whoever wins, does not prove one team is better than the other. They maybe better that one week or had more luck that one week, but it still doesn't prove who is better.
Nothing wrong with playing and getting lucky.
There's a game that they play a lot in Vegas. Coming to think, it's played all over the world nowadays and is on TV. Requires LOTS of luck and Rhymes with TOKER :thumbup: