They never saw the $$$$....

[JAM]

One thing for sure, without professional players, there is no DCC and no action. People who criticize professional players on pool forums and then turn around and beg the pro players to hang out with them need a reality check.

Maybe those who gripe about pool players should find some other entity to hang around on those golf courses, so they can come on pool forums with bragging rights that they hang out with this pro and that pro.

Some unfortunate no-playing nits speak with forked tongues!

JAM

 

[BVal]

One thing for sure, without professional players, there is no DCC and no action. People who criticize professional players on pool forums and then turn around and beg the pro players to hang out with them need a reality check.

Maybe those who gripe about pool players should find some other entity to hang around on those golf courses, so they can come on pool forums with bragging rights that they hang out with this pro and that pro.

Some unfortunate no-playing nits speak with forked tongues!

JAM

The truth of the matter is - Neither (promoter or pool players) would exist without each other. It is not just one or the other. I believe that is true for any tournament.

BVal

 

[JAM]

The truth of the matter is - Neither (promoter or pool players) would exist without each other. It is not just one or the other. I believe that is true for any tournament.

BVal

The fans cannot enjoy watching professional pool if there are no professional players to watch is more my point.

Some so-called fans come on this forum and ridicule professional players, condemning them as if they are scum of the earth. In other posts, though, these same so-called fans come on this forum and brag about being friends with pro pool players, how they play golf with pro players, how this pro player is their friend, how that pro player is a drinking buddy of theirs.

On the one hand, the pro players are good enough to be their friends, but on the other hand, they speak about them on this pool forum as if they are nobodies.

JAM

 

[Milo]

I sorta tend to agree with Jam

I have been reading this thread since yesterday. The whole situation is so sad for all involved. I believe and hope that Chuck will make these checks good. I believe most people are good. You get the 1 percent that dont give a rats azz about anyone but themselves. (I truly believe the good in most people) And I think Chuck will carry through on his promises. Until then, I am going to keep an open mind about the whole situation and try not to rush to too much judgement at this point.
I know there is no excuse for writing bad checks. Is it possible he didnt realize the checks would bounce??? None of us know the whole story!!!
There could be many reasons that were out of his control. (Its possible, isnt it)
Maybe its just me, but I wont talk negatively about someones rep. without all the facts.

PS btw, thanks guys for all the green cheesy puffs below my name. LOL

 

[BVal]

The fans cannot enjoy watching professional pool if there are no professional players to watch is more my point.

Some so-called fans come on this forum and ridicule professional players, condemning them as if they are scum of the earth. In other posts, though, these same so-called fans come on this forum and brag about being friends with pro pool players, how they play golf with pro players, how this pro player is their friend, how that pro player is a drinking buddy of theirs.

On the one hand, the pro players are good enough to be their friends, but on the other hand, they speak about them on this pool forum as if they are nobodies.

JAM

I understand your point and equally the fans cannot enjoy watching the pro pool players if there is no place for them to play and showcase their talents.

All the other stuff is really irrelevant to the whole point of this thread. imo.

BVal

 

[BRKNRUN]

That is all well and good...but he wrote the checks! Are you suggesting that he just had no clue that his account didn't have the funds?

Are you suggesting that he just had to move some money out of his savings account to cover the checks but just forgot and KEPT forgetting?

Hey, the world is full of supposedly "nice guys" who end up ripping people off.

Personally, I don't believe for one single minute that he did this as just some marketing gimmick for his business. People who do that have a marketing BUDGET.

He DID IT, thinking he was going to make a reasonable profit FOR HIMSELF and he air barrelled a LOT of people when it turned out he was wrong.

Hey...this wasn't New Orleans in the wake of Katrina. The man wrote the checks knowing they were readers.

So far, I have heard nothing that excuses such behavior.

I am not "suggesting" anything...

I don't know if money was not there, or if the money was there and other checks cleared first that wiped it out the funds, or any other "possibility"

Perhaps he paid other expenses that would allow him to keep his business afloat (which wiped out his funds) so that he does have the future ability to pay off the players...I nor you is privy to that information so anything along that lines is speculation.....but if he loses his real business he loses his ability to ever pay the players off.

All I know for sure is that people are still owed money and Chuck is "seemingly" trying to make good based on Jay's post from today.

I did note that he probably made some bad decisions...One of them may have been who to pay first......

I don't know and neither do you...For that matter Jay may not even know the "complete" truth.

The only information we have is that Chuck got himself in a bad situation and people are owed money.

My "speculation" is that Chuck probably wanted to hold the event and eventually make good instead of cutting and running when it all started falling apart at the last minute... He could have just canceled it and all the players would have been out traveling expenses anyway....at least this way there "was" an event and hopefully all players will be paid off.

I have years of background credibility to go on with Chuck...Frankly you only have posts and speculation so I don't expect you to have confidence in Chuck... I expect that you like many others will have a "tainted" view since pool has a history of scam artists.

My "opinion" based on my experience of knowing Chuck is that this is not one of those scam artist situations...It is a event that although appeard successful to the public...soured financially....and Chuck is the one needing to clean up a financial mess.... (which it appears he is at least attempting to do)

 

[Fast Lenny]

I am not "suggesting" anything...

I don't know if money was not there, or if the money was there and other checks cleared first that wiped it out the funds, or any other "possibility"

Perhaps he paid other expenses that would allow him to keep his business afloat (which wiped out his funds) so that he does have the future ability to pay off the players...I nor you is privy to that information so anything along that lines is speculation.....but if he loses his real business he loses his ability to ever pay the players off.

All I know for sure is that people are still owed money and Chuck is "seemingly" trying to make good based on Jay's post from today.

I did note that he probably made some bad decisions...One of them may have been who to pay first......

I don't know and neither do you...For that matter Jay may not even know the "complete" truth.

The only information we have is that Chuck got himself in a bad situation and people are owed money.

My "speculation" is that Chuck probably wanted to hold the event and eventually make good instead of cutting and running when it all started falling apart at the last minute... He could have just canceled it and all the players would have been out traveling expenses anyway....at least this way there "was" an event and hopefully all players will be paid off.

I have years of background credibility to go on with Chuck...Frankly you only have posts and speculation so I don't expect you to have confidence in Chuck... I expect that you like many others will have a "tainted" view since pool has a history of scam artists.

My "opinion" based on my experience of knowing Chuck is that this is not one of those scam artist situations...It is a event that although appeard successful to the public...soured financially....and Chuck is the one needing to clean up a financial mess.... (which it appears he is at least attempting to do)

I believe you are right on with this,i am assuming that he has been putting money into tourneys around the valley and doing good for pool,he obviously did wrong here but to me it doesnt seem he is trying to rip off anyone,he just has some money problems.

 

[jasonlaus]

Might be stressful, but it wouldn't be hard work. I have run small local tournaments and with experience all would become easier. To step in off the street and run that event would be mentally overwhelming. After running a few events and building experience, well. Go step behind the counter of a McDonalds and try to keep up... tell me that wouldn't be overwhelming! They are making pennies for that job. The guy paying the entry putting in hours of practice and a hope of winning to live has a harder job than running the event. They would have to finish 4th to get over $2000. Practice time week before say 30 hours at regular job rate of $10 hour... $300, travel expense, food, rent, car, insurance, kids, wife/girlfriend... and their 4th might be the first good placing in a month or more. Now that is hard and deserving of min $2000.

I own a construction company, so I have to find customers, keep people working, purchase material/tools/supplies, do warranty work, do physical back breaking work every day and yes it is stressful... Had a heart attack couple months ago at 36. I would be happy with $1000 for my 12-14 hour day doing construction.

Jay I see the name you have on here and that would be worth more than most... but for a weeks work $2000 is a really good paying job. Like Doctors, lawyers paying good. I'm just saying some people out there are doing way harder work in a lot more stressful situation for a lot less. I don't think the Troops in Iraq would make $2000 a weekend or even a week.

I am just comparing this part-time job to everyday working people and that is the question I come up with. Why is a TD worth so much? I know people are going to post you do it... thankless job... etc. So is running a Vac truck sucking shit all day from sewers and they don't touch that kind of money.

I'm sounding harsh above, but I wonder, when players are making so little why can TD charge so much? What determines their $50+ hourly rate.

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO SAY ABOUT THIS B.S.

 

[punter]

I am not "suggesting" anything...

I don't know if money was not there, or if the money was there and other checks cleared first that wiped it out the funds, or any other "possibility"

Perhaps he paid other expenses that would allow him to keep his business afloat (which wiped out his funds) so that he does have the future ability to pay off the players...I nor you is privy to that information so anything along that lines is speculation.....but if he loses his real business he loses his ability to ever pay the players off.

All I know for sure is that people are still owed money and Chuck is "seemingly" trying to make good based on Jay's post from today.

I did note that he probably made some bad decisions...One of them may have been who to pay first......

I don't know and neither do you...For that matter Jay may not even know the "complete" truth.

The only information we have is that Chuck got himself in a bad situation and people are owed money.

My "speculation" is that Chuck probably wanted to hold the event and eventually make good instead of cutting and running when it all started falling apart at the last minute... He could have just canceled it and all the players would have been out traveling expenses anyway....at least this way there "was" an event and hopefully all players will be paid off.

I have years of background credibility to go on with Chuck...Frankly you only have posts and speculation so I don't expect you to have confidence in Chuck... I expect that you like many others will have a "tainted" view since pool has a history of scam artists.

My "opinion" based on my experience of knowing Chuck is that this is not one of those scam artist situations...It is a event that although appeard successful to the public...soured financially....and Chuck is the one needing to clean up a financial mess.... (which it appears he is at least attempting to do)

If Mr. Bobbitt had good intentions only, then I would think it could only help his rep if he would tell those who were not paid exactly what happened, and what his intentions are. I'm not saying he owes everyone on this thread an explanation, but, since his rep is taking a beating here, it would probably help if explained things in his own words. JMO.

 

[Fast Lenny]

If Mr. Bobbitt had good intentions only, then I would think it could only help his rep if he would tell those who were not paid exactly what happened, and what his intentions are. I'm not saying he owes everyone on this thread an explanation, but, since his rep is taking a beating here, it would probably help if explained things in his own words. JMO.

He doesnt own any of us on here an apology who wasnt directly involved with the tourney,he probably doesnt post here,we dont really know whats going on right now.Im sure he has spoken to Jay and the players and is working something out i would hope,its a shame its happened.

 

[ironman]

Might be stressful, but it wouldn't be hard work. I have run small local tournaments and with experience all would become easier. To step in off the street and run that event would be mentally overwhelming. After running a few events and building experience, well. Go step behind the counter of a McDonalds and try to keep up... tell me that wouldn't be overwhelming! They are making pennies for that job. The guy paying the entry putting in hours of practice and a hope of winning to live has a harder job than running the event. They would have to finish 4th to get over $2000. Practice time week before say 30 hours at regular job rate of $10 hour... $300, travel expense, food, rent, car, insurance, kids, wife/girlfriend... and their 4th might be the first good placing in a month or more. Now that is hard and deserving of min $2000.

I own a construction company, so I have to find customers, keep people working, purchase material/tools/supplies, do warranty work, do physical back breaking work every day and yes it is stressful... Had a heart attack couple months ago at 36. I would be happy with $1000 for my 12-14 hour day doing construction.

Jay I see the name you have on here and that would be worth more than most... but for a weeks work $2000 is a really good paying job. Like Doctors, lawyers paying good. I'm just saying some people out there are doing way harder work in a lot more stressful situation for a lot less. I don't think the Troops in Iraq would make $2000 a weekend or even a week.

I am just comparing this part-time job to everyday working people and that is the question I come up with. Why is a TD worth so much? I know people are going to post you do it... thankless job... etc. So is running a Vac truck sucking shit all day from sewers and they don't touch that kind of money.

I'm sounding harsh above, but I wonder, when players are making so little why can TD charge so much? What determines their $50+ hourly rate.

Jay is a big boy and can defend himself very well, but he won't here. He has pride and dignity.

What makes him worth the money? About 40 years of paying dues!!!!!!!!

 

[Fatboy]

Who cares what somebody makes for their job? they can be a tournment director, or a tennis player or work in a resteraunt, it dosent matter. Whats whith counting other peoples money or income? Or judging them for what they made for something. No body I know in their right mind works for free, they may do a charity thing or a labor of love thing here and there, but unless you have a massive trust fund who can do something with out charging some one or business for your time no matter what it is you do. And if someone makes $5 or $5,000,000 does it really matter when its not your $$$? People get paid based on their value in the eyes of who is paying them or for what they are selling if they have a reputation ar a big profit margin good for them. Nobody makes big $$ accidentally and even if they did it aint your dough or mine so does it really matter??? At the end of the day nobody really gives a shit,<---thats really a true statment.

Bankruptcy is a lonely place and when your rich your in a crowded world of phonys. Most people fall in the middle somewhere, I have been on both ends and do you really give a shit? I didnt think so and neither do I.

 

[punter]

He doesnt own any of us on here an apology who wasnt directly involved with the tourney,he probably doesnt post here,we dont really know whats going on right now.Im sure he has spoken to Jay and the players and is working something out i would hope,its a shame its happened.

Some people that know him have posted. I'm just saying that maybe they could ask him if he wanted to explain his side of the story here, then maybe they could post it for him.

No he does not owe me an explanation. But others that were affected are posters on here and this thread contains statements that affect his rep.

 

[philw]

Apparently I must spread some rep around before giving it to JAM again. The funny thing is, JAM and I have not always gotten along and argued about some subjects before... but I truly admire the way she is always looking for the other side of the story. The truth here is that everyone hears "money" and "stiffed" and no one here really knows what happened, but are very quick to judge. I just feel like sometimes JAM shows a decency and patience with people that we could all learn from around here.

I've noticed that too! Jam always conducts herself in a diplomatic manner and as far as I'm concerned that's a breath of fresh air here at AZ were some people are quick to judge. Nice post by both of you.

 

[fdambi]

Women

One thing for sure, without professional players, there is no DCC and no action. People who criticize professional players on pool forums and then turn around and beg the pro players to hang out with them need a reality check.
Maybe those who gripe about pool players should find some other entity to hang around on those golf courses, so they can come on pool forums with bragging rights that they hang out with this pro and that pro.
Some unfortunate no-playing nits speak with forked tongues!
JAM

(JAM makes a good point here. Most of the time I've noticed her babbling about nonsense on some of the other threads, but she's dead on here. The pool scene is pretty crappy, especially in Arizona. I've known many good players that get the shaft when they're not winning, like Jimmy Mendoza, Terry Osborne, Chuck Evans, to name a few. When they're not winning, everyone is busy kissing the ass of whoever won the tournament. No one pays attention to the shots, any of the tough games they won, or matches they won, or whether they got 2nd or 3rd place. I try to treat them all with the same courtesy, whether they won or not, because they have accomplished things I want to accomplish, and because I haven't beaten any of 'em yet. Orender is another dude who doesn't get props. As far as Chuck goes, I know personally he's done tons for pool around here, and a lot more than most of the nit butt kissers who sniff from player to player. Apparently, he's gotten stuck in a crappy situation trying to rescue a tourney that was started by another local bum named Kevin Lewis who lied to a lot of people around here and bounced with their money too after holding phony qualifiers. Chuck seems to be in over his head, and until the rest of the truth comes out, considering Chuck's past, I think we should give him a little time to see if he works this thing out before we start turning him into Trudeau, who was definitely a thief and a cheat, and has done time for it. Patience people...Chuck Bobbitt messed up big, but maybe this will be resolved at some point.

 

[Island Drive]

johnny Archer $12000
mika $7500
mike davis $5000
charile bryant $4000
John Schmit $2800
jay helfert $2100


Never saw the $$$, last week I posted a thread that said "Show me the $$$" After 2700 views and 4 pages of guesses, only JAM had it right-unless I missed a post. None of the top finishers in Phoneix last week got paid, Saez cashed his check, Archer told me "Hell I would have done better if I took 9th, instread of winning it".

I made the thread to put Chuck Bobbett on notice that he might draw some attention and not himself any favors by stiffing everyone, well he did.


I sat back this past week and listened to everyone and man this guy has more excuses that anyone ever, he was telling some people that he wired the $$$, then was producing phony bank statments, saying he couldnt FAX things etc. He just cornered himself after a week of lies,

its a shame that the players were robbed,


to be clear Mark known here as bfdlad, had nothing to this. He is 100% STAND UP GUY, SO DONT CONFUS HIM WITH THE OTHER GUY WHO WAS HAVING EVENTS IN THE SAME CITY AT THE SAME TIME.

How does Fatboy fit in? I don't. I had nothig to do with this except making the arrangments for one player to come out play in it and not get paid, he is my friend and 2 other guys on the list as well are friends. I dont like to see people or my friends get robbed. This Chuck guy took the gate $$$, entrance $$$, etc and rat holed as much as he could after paying the lower places. So I sat back for a week watched. listened and sadly realized that Chuck should probably pay his debts, which include my friends, i'm a loyal friend. Otherwise it just makes me sick to see a guy air-barrel a tournment with a $400 entry fee, these guys spend almost a dime to get there for this???? no way can this be let to rest. so I made it public, i'm done with it from here.

The Police dept Check Fraud Unit will be all over this one, they like big press releases and when someone willingfully writes about $30,000 in hot checks in one day to 6 or 7 people they wont waste time. So Chuck stop the bullshit and and the bleeding and find the $$$. Chuck I wont put a google map to your house or the business you own as I feel that wouldnt be right.....yet.

Sounds like the Courtney/Coffee tourney in Burlington Iowa in the early 70's, only guys that got paid were the ones that went out early and got em cashed on the spot, I was one of em and so was Rempe, tho he placed higher, he went to the cage and they didn't know what was up, tho Jimmy was always pretty smart, even when Johnston City got raided, James had all his money accounted for, now Cardone...

 

[Dawgie]

I would normally feel sorry for these guys BUT it happens too often and they do nothing about it or to correct the situation.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I put that Jay would be worth more than some based on what I have been reading on here about him. I am just curious as to why a TD would get so much compared to the prize money. I don't think TD for the PGA tour would make 4 th place prize money for the week of work and they are dealing with millions and a way bigger operation.

Most regular jobs on this earth have a value and a wage associated with it. Some people are opportunist and can make more than regular wage. These people build wealth. Most people can only better their wage by education and others going into harms way for a better paying job. From what I am reading here it is accepted and expected for TD to charge a great deal in relation to prize money. I would say that this is an opportunist.

If you posted a job position, TD required traveling USA running pro events for $40,000 year, you would get people applying. If you posted the same add for $104,000 year, you would have to hire someone to help give interviews. I would even take a course... Jay could hold it for $14,000, the price of college. I would pay it to make 100,000$+ a year.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

And as far as it being none of my business, this whole thread is none of our business... we didn't get stiffed, Jay and the players did. They are the only ones able to talk here... the rest of us are just snoops and talkers. I am just doing my snooping and talking. Should Jay get his $2000+, every penny. They all should get their $$ + any extra cost because of the late payment. I just had a question on what determines or who set the TD fee's. What did they base it on or is it just accepted because thats how it is.

Everyone gets very defensive for some reason when they can't give good reason's.

 

[jay helfert]

Might be stressful, but it wouldn't be hard work. I have run small local tournaments and with experience all would become easier. To step in off the street and run that event would be mentally overwhelming. After running a few events and building experience, well. Go step behind the counter of a McDonalds and try to keep up... tell me that wouldn't be overwhelming! They are making pennies for that job. The guy paying the entry putting in hours of practice and a hope of winning to live has a harder job than running the event. They would have to finish 4th to get over $2000. Practice time week before say 30 hours at regular job rate of $10 hour... $300, travel expense, food, rent, car, insurance, kids, wife/girlfriend... and their 4th might be the first good placing in a month or more. Now that is hard and deserving of min $2000.

I own a construction company, so I have to find customers, keep people working, purchase material/tools/supplies, do warranty work, do physical back breaking work every day and yes it is stressful... Had a heart attack couple months ago at 36. I would be happy with $1000 for my 12-14 hour day doing construction.

Jay I see the name you have on here and that would be worth more than most... but for a weeks work $2000 is a really good paying job. Like Doctors, lawyers paying good. I'm just saying some people out there are doing way harder work in a lot more stressful situation for a lot less. I don't think the Troops in Iraq would make $2000 a weekend or even a week.

I am just comparing this part-time job to everyday working people and that is the question I come up with. Why is a TD worth so much? I know people are going to post you do it... thankless job... etc. So is running a Vac truck sucking shit all day from sewers and they don't touch that kind of money.

I'm sounding harsh above, but I wonder, when players are making so little why can TD charge so much? What determines their $50+ hourly rate.

Jason,

I will ask you, why does an electrician make the money he makes (more than $50 and hour) or a plumber or a carpenter? It is not necessarily because they work so hard. It is because they have knowledge and experience. Just like you do in construction. Why do the guys who work the hardest digging ditches (for you) and other menial jobs get paid the least, like $15 an hour? Don't you feel just a little bit guilty paying them less than you make?

I get hired to do the job I do because I happen to be good at it. And yes, I don't have to get my hands dirty doing it. There are other TD's who will work for less, but I value my services based on what I believe I bring to the table. And that's a lot of knowledge and experience. You don't have to hire me if you don't want to. They can hire you instead so you can gain some experience. I have no problem with that. With me you get a smooth running and well co-ordinated event. This experience in Phoenix is the first time, in my over 25 years of working on pool tournaments, that all the players weren't paid. And I won't rest until they all get paid!

There were no "blow ups" at the Desert Shootout. No altercations between players and fans. No temper tantrums or other distractions from the great pool that was played there. Could you have accomplished that? I seriously doubt it. The players may not all like me, but I do have their respect. You must earn that Jason!