Thin Cut Shots

[Cdryden]

Difficulty being accurate with soft low english is different then the cue ball having a knuckle ball effect.
As I said in my second post on the subject I beleive the ball can curve (with unwanted side english) but I don't believe if you hit the ball level in the center with low english that it will do anything other than go in a straight line. (this is not an easy shot to execute) It seems to me you are talking about difficulty in repeating this type of stroke accurately.

Dud

I never said use soft low english,(soft low english will only skid for a short moment) if I gave that impression I am sorry, I actually meant just the opposite. I was just trying to say that when a ball skids it is not rolling true. As in when the ball squirts or deflects it is skidding. And I only used the Knuckle ball example to explain that the spins effects trajectory. Anyhow I think we may have gotten away from the OP question and that wasn't my intention. I appreciate your comments though and I am listening with a open mind.

 

[Dudley]

I never said use soft low english,(soft low english will only skid for a short moment) if I gave that impression I am sorry, I actually meant just the opposite. I was just trying to say that when a ball skids it is not rolling true. As in when the ball squirts or deflects it is skidding. And I only used the Knuckle ball example to explain that the spins effects trajectory. Anyhow I think we may have gotten away from the OP question and that wasn't my intention. I appreciate your comments though and I am listening with a open mind.

You are a class act buddy,

It is usually very difficult to communicate clearly in a forum setting.

This has been an interesting dialogue and have enjoyed the information stated by all.

Dudley :thumbup:

 

[randyg]

I use a little inside on thin cut shots where the QB is under 5' away. Steve Cook showed me that. Most players don't want to use any side-spin when aiming for a very thin hit, but sometimes you have to. Johnnyt

Johnny: What does the inside spin do?
SPF=randyg

 

[swrooster]

Mis-cue

Johnny: What does the inside spin do?
SPF=randyg

It helps you mis-cue.:grin:

 

[Johnnyt]

Johnny: What does the inside spin do?
SPF=randyg

Have no idea. When I started using it thin cut shots became easier for me. Can't use inside on them all the time anyway if it will come off rail wrong for position on next ball. It works for me more than not. I think he said it takes most of the skid factor out of the thin cuts. Johnnyt

 

[CreeDo]

My best guess on the inside trick is it lets you aim a little fatter on the ball (which your brain sort of wants to do anyway... we're all scared of overcutting a thin hit)... and then your inside lets the ball deflect intentionally to hit thinner.

It's also possible that inside makes it impossible to overcut the ball, the inside throws the ball forward a bit so there's just no way to overcut. So you can aim as thin as you want and as long as you make contact, you won't overcut. You can still undercut of course.

I dunno of a surefire way to test this.

I personally just use dead center, aim to make the ball, and use a pretty good pause before I fire my final stroke. Lately I may also look at the cue ball last during the hit to make sure I don't hit off-center.

 

[Cdryden]

You are a class act buddy,

It is usually very difficult to communicate clearly in a forum setting.

This has been an interesting dialogue and have enjoyed the information stated by all.

Dudley :thumbup:

Rep to you!:thumbup:

 

[Robert Raiford]

Simple answer; friction.

Longer answer;
I would say that the reason it strays from its original path is the fact that it is skidding and not rolling. The forward rolling motion allows the cue ball to track, the skidding cue ball is not tracking correctly because it is fighting the natural roll of the cue ball.
Think of it like the knuckle ball of pro pitchers. Since the knuckle ball has no spin, or very little spin it does not follow a consistent trajectory. Another example would be the rifling of a gun. the rifling gives the bullet spin so it follows a straight path better.

The physics of knuckleballs and gun barrel rifling are irrelevant as far as pool is concerned because air resistance is negligible for smooth spheres at any billiard game velocities.

Knuckleballs rely on the fact that baseballs have stitches that cause asymmetrical drag when a non-spinning baseball moves through the air. However, that effect only happens for pitches over ~50mph. For reference, even the fastest breaks are barely over 30mph, and pool balls are much smoother.

Whether the cue ball is sliding or rolling, it will move in a perfectly straight line as long as the table is level and you don't apply sidespin. Any deviations from a straight line are due to table surface warping and/or swerve caused by accidental sidespin from hitting to either side of the CB vertical center line (more likely).

Robert

p.s. Interestingly (and counterintuitively for many), gun barrel rifling was invented for smooth spherical bullets (where we get the name rounds ) before the introduction of the conically/cylindrically-shaped projectiles we all know today. Even early bullets traveled fast-enough that air resistance was a factor (unlike billiards).

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[alphadog]

There very well may be something else going on here. You are using two different speeds, and not allowing the speed as a possible reason for the misses. It very well could be that you have a very straight stroke at low speeds, but your stroke might be going off center a little as you increase speed. It might not have anything to do with the draw, follow, or elevation of the cue.

Many people tend to tighten their grip when they stroke faster. That tightening can alter the path of the cue.

Great point Neil!
I would like to add that : Player is taking extra time to aim,hence a more
precise line,a more accurate hit on the cue-ball,and also would tend to stay down on the shot. Any of the above will increase pocketing.Put them all together and the results can be sensational.

 

[randyg]

My best guess on the inside trick is it lets you aim a little fatter on the ball (which your brain sort of wants to do anyway... we're all scared of overcutting a thin hit)... and then your inside lets the ball deflect intentionally to hit thinner.

It's also possible that inside makes it impossible to overcut the ball, the inside throws the ball forward a bit so there's just no way to overcut. So you can aim as thin as you want and as long as you make contact, you won't overcut. You can still undercut of course.

I dunno of a surefire way to test this.

I personally just use dead center, aim to make the ball, and use a pretty good pause before I fire my final stroke. Lately I may also look at the cue ball last during the hit to make sure I don't hit off-center.

Outstanding answer....SPF=randyg

 

[ShootingArts]

gotta agree with the pretty strong player

Does lowering the butt of your cue to the point where you're hitting slightly up on the cue ball increase accuracy on thin cut shots?

I was told by a pretty strong player that this technique improves accuracy on these types of shots and on follow shots in general basically because the cue ball is rolling from the get go and not sliding as it would be with a level cue or with the butt of the cue being slightly elevated.

In spite of some excellent answers to the contrary I have to agree that getting the ball rolling can be an advantage on shots that have to be extremely precise. The reason is the one thing that has been ignored talking about air and speeds and all of these things. The cue ball is interacting with the surface of the table and anything that might be on the surface of the table.

Every divot, speck of chalk, whatever the cue ball encounters will have some effect on it's path. A sliding cue ball deflects more while a free rolling cue ball has more of a tendency to hop over these irregularities. A ball hit with draw is deflected most of all by these things when it is spinning backwards. If the cloth isn't pulled evenly the path of the cue ball is affected least when it is rolling too. On a perfectly clean and smooth surface with even tension throughout it doesn't matter if the ball is rolling, skidding, or spinning backwards. However that isn't what we play on.

To simply pocket the ball I have found that a half tip to a tip of high ball and medium speed or just enough more speed to get the object ball to the pocket works best for me on the long razor thin cuts.

Hu