This thread might cause some problems but your opinion requested

Shawn Armstrong said:
Why did you feel the need to drop names? Was it to impress us? I can't figure out another reason for doing this. To me, it was woofing.
Click to expand...

Maybe you didn't read the initial post. It questioned Freddie's honesty and reputation...it said "I have been told by multiple players that he was not as strong of a player as he claims to be". Really I didn't expect him to respond to this at all, but when he did so, he made a list of players that as he said he played with and got the cheese. So now he is woofing? What do you guys want? Moses to come down and part the waters?
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Why did you feel the need to drop names? Was it to impress us? I can't figure out another reason for doing this. To me, it was woofing.
Click to expand...

1) Someone starts this thread, questioning Freddy's history against other players

2) Freddy shares specific details of his history against other players

3) You give Freddy grief for answering the question

Duhhhhhhhh. I'm beginning to think Shawn Armstrong is just a troll, given the quantity of assinine posts like this.

To the original poster, are you really posing this question because of indecision about buying his books? There are already numerous positive reviews of his books. In fact I've never heard anything bad about them. So if you're hedging your decision on whether he was an A++++ player or only A+++, get a grip.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
One time I drove a golf ball farther than Tiger Woods.
Click to expand...

I do that all the time. Its about 15 miles to the golf course and the balls are always driven there.
 
freddy the beard said:
I know you probably mean well, kid, but I am a little warm at those bank pool shortstops in Louisville. My pal, Truman probably got you all riled up. I did go into Louisville looking to play anybody in town (except Truman). With all those big mouth, great players there, they mustered up one guy to play some $50 a game. Gerald. I played in that little creep joint on the 4 x 8's and did lose a few games to Gerald. Nobody else would play, and nobody would bet anything either and nobody would go play on a 4 1/2 by 9 including Gerald. And nobody from there, sure as sh*t ever came up to Chicago to get some. Actually, Fargo did come up twice when I was on my final gasps. He lost both times. Once for money, and once in the Chicago Bumps bank pool tournament. Although truthfully, by then I didnt like his action and was glad to escape.
Jay, thanks for sticking up for me, but I must also take issue with the ten or fifteen guys that you say could spot me. Who were they? Check out the list below. Only three guys spotted me on that list. Bugs, Truman and CornBread. Everybody else I beat even at least once. (Now don't be throwing batting averages, Jay. I only said I beat 'em all even at least once.) Makes you feel kinda good to be on that list though, don't it?
Is this list impressive enough for you, Bomber?
the Beard

John Abruzzo
Robert Houseman in TCOM Agins
Ronnie Fast Eddie Allen
Richie Richie from the Bronx Ambrose
Donnie Anderson
Jaffar Patch Eye, One-eyed Henry, Henry Chapman Basheer
Louis Little Hand Bramlett
Rusty Brandymeyer
Tony Tough Tony Brewer
James Youngblood Brown
George Brunt
Billy Cornbread Red Burge
Mike Carella
Vince Pancho Carelli
Jeff Carter
Johnny Lefty, Cannonball Chapman
Charlie Brooklyn Charlie Charlie
Clyde Childress
Hubert Daddy Warbucks Cokes
Nate Black Nate Colbert
Tony Benton Harbour Tony, Tony Banks Coleman
Wade Billy Johnson, Boom Boom Crane
Sam Okie Sam, Nashville Sam, Robert Ryan Crotzer
Alphonso Fonzi Daniels
Danny Buffalo Kid Di Liberto
Cole Hippie Cole Dickson
Vernon Eliot
Jamie Red Rifle Farrell
Tony Fargo Ferguson
Roger The Rocket Griffis
Cecil Rifleman, Buddy Hall
Jay Toupee Jay Helfert
Marvin Pittsburg Flash Henderson
Truman Hogue
Allen Young Hoppe Hopkins
Tony One-Eyed Tony Howard
Bill Cardone, Pittsburgh Billy, Mustache Charlie Incardona
Charlie left handed from Ky. Jones
Cliff Joyner
Eddie Champagne Eddie Kelly
Glen Fat Glen Knowles
Peter Peter Rabbit Linhard
Larry Oil Can, The Prince of Pool Lisciotti
Jimmy Hippie Jimmy Marino
Marco The Snake Marquez
Eddie Black Eddie from Milwaukee Matthews
John California John Mc Cue
Keith Earthquake, Ether, Grady Seasons McCready
Danny Medina
Howard The Coward Meechum
George Michaels
Al Racine Al Miller
Steve Miz Mizerak
Willie Munson
Jose Parica
Gary Pinkowski
Jimmy Hippie Jimmy Reid
Jim King James Rempe
Kenny Romburg Remus
Efren Bata Reyes
Skippy Dallas, Tex Le Cue Riggs
Louie St. Louis Louie Roberts
Glen Piggy Banks Rogers
Bernard Bunny, Pots and Pans Rogoff
Don Rose
Leonard Bugs Rucker
Ike Runnels
Denny Searcy
Freddy from New Orleans Sessions
Harry Poochie Sexton
Mike Captain Hook Sigel
Johnny Johnny Boy Skinner
Steve Lizard Smith
Joey Cincinnati Kid Spaeth
Gary Spaeth
Greg Big Train Stevens
Earl The Pearl Strickland
Cecil The Left Duke Tugwell
Nick Varner
John Mexican Johnny Vasquez
Alton Babyface Whitlow
Robert Rags Woods
Red Jew Town Red xxx
Iceman Black Iceman xxx
California California Shorty xxx
John Zaksas
Chi Chi little mexican
Long Beach
Click to expand...

With a resume like that, I'm a believer. Freddie's probably forgotten more about pool than most will learn in their lifetime.

He says his wheels are shot now, but I wouldn't like the game myself if we stepped up to the table right now.

Some of you guys don't get it. Here sits a guy that has played the best in the world at one time or another and can translate those experiences to the written page for us to enjoy and learn from. Man, what a treasure trove of knowledge and experience.

My last words of the subject:

HEY, FREDDIE, DO YOU WANT AN APPRENTICE?
 
Jarvis?

watchez said:
Freddie- What about Mark Jarvis?
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Of course. I purposely left him off that venerable list because I'm a little peeved at him. I gave him lessons for money when he was a kid. Then the last time we played banks at the Chicago Billiard Cafe, and because he was so brutal to play with, I had to put a proviso rule into the game. To eliminate the arguments and false claims that he was sure to insert at some point in the set, I made him agree to "all kisses count" to eliminate the "You kissed that ball." beef. Unfortunately, his word meant nothing. Near the end of the session, and needing one ball to win, he dogged an easy shot. Filled with new life, I began to bank out on him. I banked 2 and then banked a slight cut bank, made it and got into perfect position to make two hanger cross corners. I was headed home! At this point he squealed, "Kiss, Kiss!" which it wasn't anyway. I tried reason, "In the 1st place, I didn't kiss the ball, in the second more important place, we are playing all kisses count, in order to eliminate just this type of situation." "I know, but it means too much." was his reply. The argument never went anywhere and we eventually just quit. Even though they were easy shots, I did need two anyway. I never played him again.

the Beard
PS On my new blog I will be pontificating on the sociopathic, political, and philosophical views on pool, and the world in general. I am now adding a daily tip from the Old-time Hustler's Handbook. A gamemanship section to soon follow.
 
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shinobi said:
1) Someone starts this thread, questioning Freddy's history against other players

2) Freddy shares specific details of his history against other players

3) You give Freddy grief for answering the question

Duhhhhhhhh. I'm beginning to think Shawn Armstrong is just a troll, given the quantity of assinine posts like this.

To the original poster, are you really posing this question because of indecision about buying his books? There are already numerous positive reviews of his books. In fact I've never heard anything bad about them. So if you're hedging your decision on whether he was an A++++ player or only A+++, get a grip.
Click to expand...

So, I'm a troll because I express my opinion? Freddy didn't need to respond to it. The greats never have to - their reputation speaks for themselves. If Freddy felt slighted by the comments, then let his friends speak up for him. It's like Billy and McWhorter. Be the man and take the high road. There were enough guys that were coming to his defense. He then puts up a list of all the players he's beat. Who cares? I don't. Maybe he beat Strickland at banks. Or one-hole. Maybe Earl was 15 at the time. This is the problem with pool players as a whole. No one ever wants to match up with the world watching, except the true greats. No one wants to be exposed on TV. Minnesota Fats was the biggest scam artist of all time. Could he play with Mosconi? No. Freddy drops a list on us of all the players he's beat in at least one set. He's been playing pool since balls were round. Of course he probably beat Mike Sigel and Allen Hopkins. They were probably getting lessons from him years ago.

When someone takes a shot at Tiger in the PGA, he goes out and wins a major. When someone took a shot at Jordan, he burned their team for 55. They don't woof. Until the best players are willing to play for nothing more than pride or trophies, there will always be excuses. A $10,000 set between SVB and Deuel. It takes $10,000 on behalf of each player to make this match happen? How about they just match up at the next tourney and play. Just to see who will win. Let's see who the better player is. Play 10 sets, race to 20. This is how rivalries in sports get started. I could just imagine if Federer and Nadal had to put up $10K each to play a match of tennis. Pool isn't taken seriously because of all these wonderful gambling stories. If you're good at golf, the common statement is you're a good golfer. If you're good at pool, the common statement is you're a hustler. Clean up the characters of the game, and you will, by default, clean up the game.
 
Freddie

Isn't it just amazing how people can just say stuff without proof and the youngins believe it cause their idol says it.

I suppose that's good for the gamblin business. Let them believe what they want till the truth walks into town.
 
Well

I have never had doubts about Freddie's posts and/or relating experience about playing Pool, although I have 46 years under my belt too, and have gambled my share, although not the level that Freddie has.

NOW, get this - Someone relating their true life experience in the Pool world is NOt WOOFING, and it doesn't make them a liar. There are those that do lie, but they usually do it about everything, not just Pool, and if you stick with them long enough, it hits you in the face.

Many posters on here have extensive Pool experience, but they might not relate all of it for fear of how it might sound in general. I think Freddie has been specific in all his experiences, and like he said, you have to be a player to even have known some of the players he played. And, the very fact that he is in the Bank Hall of Fame speaks volumes for his playing .... period.

Whether he just beat those players 1 time or not, the fact that he had the skills necessary to even beat them 1 time, should hold some water, because real good players never shoot real bad, even on off nights.

I have emailed Freddie back and forth, mostly about his new shirts he was getting in, and I like him, and I appreciate all the history and knowledge he shares with us. I have his shirt, a long sleeve gold one, and like it.
I have recorded his song off his website, cut CD's with it, and play it all the time at home and in my car.

Now, just to relate to you what someone might not tell about themselves, simply because there are those that would call them a liar with no basis for doing so - I once beat Jimmy Mataya, but I only came out ahead $100, it was a very long session, he was 15, and on his first road trip. I have not related that before simply because it sounds dubious, but I was there, you weren't.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
So, I'm a troll because I express my opinion? Freddy didn't need to respond to it. The greats never have to - their reputation speaks for themselves. If Freddy felt slighted by the comments, then let his friends speak up for him. It's like Billy and McWhorter. Be the man and take the high road. There were enough guys that were coming to his defense. He then puts up a list of all the players he's beat. Who cares? I don't. Maybe he beat Strickland at banks. Or one-hole. Maybe Earl was 15 at the time. This is the problem with pool players as a whole. No one ever wants to match up with the world watching, except the true greats. No one wants to be exposed on TV. Minnesota Fats was the biggest scam artist of all time. Could he play with Mosconi? No. Freddy drops a list on us of all the players he's beat in at least one set. He's been playing pool since balls were round. Of course he probably beat Mike Sigel and Allen Hopkins. They were probably getting lessons from him years ago.

When someone takes a shot at Tiger in the PGA, he goes out and wins a major. When someone took a shot at Jordan, he burned their team for 55. They don't woof. Until the best players are willing to play for nothing more than pride or trophies, there will always be excuses. A $10,000 set between SVB and Deuel. It takes $10,000 on behalf of each player to make this match happen? How about they just match up at the next tourney and play. Just to see who will win. Let's see who the better player is. Play 10 sets, race to 20. This is how rivalries in sports get started. I could just imagine if Federer and Nadal had to put up $10K each to play a match of tennis. Pool isn't taken seriously because of all these wonderful gambling stories. If you're good at golf, the common statement is you're a good golfer. If you're good at pool, the common statement is you're a hustler. Clean up the characters of the game, and you will, by default, clean up the game.
Click to expand...

They should really clean up Poker too. The gambling aspect of poker is really holding it back. Why can't top poker players play to see who is better and the chips just be chips. No cash value behind them. :rolleyes:
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
So, I'm a troll because I express my opinion? Freddy didn't need to respond to it. The greats never have to - their reputation speaks for themselves. If Freddy felt slighted by the comments, then let his friends speak up for him. It's like Billy and McWhorter. Be the man and take the high road. There were enough guys that were coming to his defense. He then puts up a list of all the players he's beat. Who cares? I don't. Maybe he beat Strickland at banks. Or one-hole. Maybe Earl was 15 at the time. This is the problem with pool players as a whole. No one ever wants to match up with the world watching, except the true greats. No one wants to be exposed on TV. Minnesota Fats was the biggest scam artist of all time. Could he play with Mosconi? No. Freddy drops a list on us of all the players he's beat in at least one set. He's been playing pool since balls were round. Of course he probably beat Mike Sigel and Allen Hopkins. They were probably getting lessons from him years ago.

When someone takes a shot at Tiger in the PGA, he goes out and wins a major. When someone took a shot at Jordan, he burned their team for 55. They don't woof. Until the best players are willing to play for nothing more than pride or trophies, there will always be excuses. A $10,000 set between SVB and Deuel. It takes $10,000 on behalf of each player to make this match happen? How about they just match up at the next tourney and play. Just to see who will win. Let's see who the better player is. Play 10 sets, race to 20. This is how rivalries in sports get started. I could just imagine if Federer and Nadal had to put up $10K each to play a match of tennis. Pool isn't taken seriously because of all these wonderful gambling stories. If you're good at golf, the common statement is you're a good golfer. If you're good at pool, the common statement is you're a hustler. Clean up the characters of the game, and you will, by default, clean up the game.
Click to expand...

The original guy who started this thread (Bomber) let it go after he saw Freddies response. That's when you decided his answer (and mine) were not good enough for you. Now you want him to come out of retirement and take on some young gun just to prove he could once play. Maybe Sugar Ray Leonard should fight De La Hoya too.

Your line of reasoning is seriously flawed. Consequently all further comments you make have no credibility. Your entire last paragraph is just so much huffin' and puffin'. Better luck on your next thread. And be careful you don't hang yourself.

Who did you ever play with, besides yourself?
 
Freddie and Jay answered my original question perfectly. Thanks for the intelligent responses. I never intended to cause a problem...just wanted an unbiased opinion. I appologize for miswording my original post. I added the line "this thread may cause a problem" because it seems that whenever anyone has a question about someones playing ability, somebody has to woof it up and make fun of you for posting the question. I have been around the game for about 10 years now and have heard conflicting stories about the Beards game from various sources...some good and some bad. I was just curious to get your, the forums, input on the situation. Thanks to those who answered my question...especially Jay and Freddie.
 
jay helfert said:
The original guy who started this thread (Bomber) let it go after he saw Freddies response. That's when you decided his answer (and mine) were not good enough for you. Now you want him to come out of retirement and take on some young gun just to prove he could once play. Maybe Sugar Ray Leonard should fight De La Hoya too.

Your line of reasoning is seriously flawed. Consequently all further comments you make have no credibility. Your entire last paragraph is just so much huffin' and puffin'. Better luck on your next thread. And be careful you don't hang yourself.

Who did you ever play with, besides yourself?
Click to expand...

It's amazing how a person could play a few games of 1 pocket by themselves and then consider them an expert on the subject of it. But this is pool after all. How many times have you seen some young punk who could beat a few of the local guys in his town think he's some champion? I'm not complaining though. They're the funnest ones to bust.

Shawn is an upper echelon player in his hometown of 1500 people in the local APA league. People hem and haw when they have to play him. He is feared. His ego has been stroked enough by enough drunk locals for him to think he's an authority on pool.
 
Freddy's book

I read the reviews, stuck my neck way out, and parted with thirty dollars for Freddy's book!(I hope any agonizing over buying a book from Freddy are suitably impressed.)

I enjoyed the stories. I learned a few things. I was reminded of a few shots that I once knew but hadn't used in years. I still drag the book out and read over a few things now and then and one fine day I will sit down and reread it start to finish again. The very first trip to the pool hall after reading Freddy's book I made a handful of balls that I probably wouldn't have two days before. Oh, and I have his John Hancock on the book too. I really think it should have came with gold leaf and a written guarantee for thirty bucks along with free lessons for life but maybe you have to buy the hardcover edition to get those.

Reminds me, I have to buy his other book soon. It is free to me because I have already gotten more than sixty dollars worth of good out of his first book. I for one don't care how he does, did, or will play pool in the future. He has tremendous knowledge and is willing to share it. That is enough for me.

Hu
 
freddy the beard said:
I know you probably mean well, kid, but I am a little warm at those bank pool shortstops in Louisville. My pal, Truman probably got you all riled up. I did go into Louisville looking to play anybody in town (except Truman). With all those big mouth, great players there, they mustered up one guy to play some $50 a game. Gerald. I played in that little creep joint on the 4 x 8's and did lose a few games to Gerald. Nobody else would play, and nobody would bet anything either and nobody would go play on a 4 1/2 by 9 including Gerald. And nobody from there, sure as sh*t ever came up to Chicago to get some. Actually, Fargo did come up twice when I was on my final gasps. He lost both times. Once for money, and once in the Chicago Bumps bank pool tournament. Although truthfully, by then I didnt like his action and was glad to escape.
Jay, thanks for sticking up for me, but I must also take issue with the ten or fifteen guys that you say could spot me. Who were they? Check out the list below. Only three guys spotted me on that list. Bugs, Truman and CornBread. Everybody else I beat even at least once. (Now don't be throwing batting averages, Jay. I only said I beat 'em all even at least once.) Makes you feel kinda good to be on that list though, don't it?
Is this list impressive enough for you, Bomber?
the Beard

John Abruzzo
Robert Houseman in TCOM Agins
Ronnie Fast Eddie Allen
Richie Richie from the Bronx Ambrose
Donnie Anderson
Jaffar Patch Eye, One-eyed Henry, Henry Chapman Basheer
Louis Little Hand Bramlett
Rusty Brandymeyer
Tony Tough Tony Brewer
James Youngblood Brown
George Brunt
Billy Cornbread Red Burge
Mike Carella
Vince Pancho Carelli
Jeff Carter
Johnny Lefty, Cannonball Chapman
Charlie Brooklyn Charlie Charlie
Clyde Childress
Hubert Daddy Warbucks Cokes
Nate Black Nate Colbert
Tony Benton Harbour Tony, Tony Banks Coleman
Wade Billy Johnson, Boom Boom Crane
Sam Okie Sam, Nashville Sam, Robert Ryan Crotzer
Alphonso Fonzi Daniels
Danny Buffalo Kid Di Liberto
Cole Hippie Cole Dickson
Vernon Eliot
Jamie Red Rifle Farrell
Tony Fargo Ferguson
Roger The Rocket Griffis
Cecil Rifleman, Buddy Hall
Jay Toupee Jay Helfert
Marvin Pittsburg Flash Henderson
Truman Hogue
Allen Young Hoppe Hopkins
Tony One-Eyed Tony Howard
Bill Cardone, Pittsburgh Billy, Mustache Charlie Incardona
Charlie left handed from Ky. Jones
Cliff Joyner
Eddie Champagne Eddie Kelly
Glen Fat Glen Knowles
Peter Peter Rabbit Linhard
Larry Oil Can, The Prince of Pool Lisciotti
Jimmy Hippie Jimmy Marino
Marco The Snake Marquez
Eddie Black Eddie from Milwaukee Matthews
John California John Mc Cue
Keith Earthquake, Ether, Grady Seasons McCready
Danny Medina
Howard The Coward Meechum
George Michaels
Al Racine Al Miller
Steve Miz Mizerak
Willie Munson
Jose Parica
Gary Pinkowski
Jimmy Hippie Jimmy Reid
Jim King James Rempe
Kenny Romburg Remus
Efren Bata Reyes
Skippy Dallas, Tex Le Cue Riggs
Louie St. Louis Louie Roberts
Glen Piggy Banks Rogers
Bernard Bunny, Pots and Pans Rogoff
Don Rose
Leonard Bugs Rucker
Ike Runnels
Denny Searcy
Freddy from New Orleans Sessions
Harry Poochie Sexton
Mike Captain Hook Sigel
Johnny Johnny Boy Skinner
Steve Lizard Smith
Joey Cincinnati Kid Spaeth
Gary Spaeth
Greg Big Train Stevens
Earl The Pearl Strickland
Cecil The Left Duke Tugwell
Nick Varner
John Mexican Johnny Vasquez
Alton Babyface Whitlow
Robert Rags Woods
Red Jew Town Red xxx
Iceman Black Iceman xxx
California California Shorty xxx
John Zaksas
Chi Chi little mexican
Long Beach
Click to expand...

thats an impressive list,


My list:

Jay Helfert

I have along way to go.
 
anybody that has played all the players Freddie has win or lose is strong just for having the balls to step up that many times.
 
Fatboy said:
thats an impressive list,


My list:

Jay Helfert

I have along way to go.
Click to expand...


Hey Fatboy, you're not alone. I'm the Bob Uecker of Pool, my name is on many people's lists.

It was funny when Lisciotti came to my poolroom in Bakersfield and told me that. He said my name (and poolroom) was on everyone's list as a place to stop and get a game. I felt so proud to know that.
 
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freddy the beard said:
Thank you Jaybird. Apology graciously accepted.
the Beard
Click to expand...

Hey Fred the Maistro,
wanna play short rack banks with jacked up one hand at jay`s home in LosAngeles? I like to have the honor of playing the Hall of Famer.If u are ready let me know.Jay will allow us to use his table and he will be the referee.:cool:
 
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