Throwing the cue

SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
(I don't mean across the room)

I'm curious to learn how many of your throw the cue through the CB. I'm not referring to a slip stroke or anything - I'm referring to letting the cue go as it strikes through the CB.

Some good players and Filipinos release the cue, allowing it to strike, and then catching it afterwards. I took some lessons from Nick Mannino years ago and he actually does "throw" the cue through the CB and the cue drops... he plays a real high level. I heard Gene Nagy (hopefully I have his name right) use to run nearly 400 balls doing this.

It's a technique I'm playing with - would like to hear input. I understand the benefits... you can't "steer" or "bit*h" your stroke when the cue is "mid-air."

Your thoughts?

Dave
 
Good post!

In Pool School we have a drill that encourages a student to "toss" their cue during the shot. The drill is designed for students with tighter than needed grips. This is a practice drill only!!!!!

The only reason we have to "grip" the cue is so that the cue dosen't fall to the floor.....SPF=randyg
 
SpiderWebComm said:
(I don't mean across the room)

I'm curious to learn how many of your throw the cue through the CB. I'm not referring to a slip stroke or anything - I'm referring to letting the cue go as it strikes through the CB.

Some good players and Filipinos release the cue, allowing it to strike, and then catching it afterwards. I took some lessons from Nick Mannino years ago and he actually does "throw" the cue through the CB and the cue drops... he plays a real high level. I heard Gene Nagy (hopefully I have his name right) use to run nearly 400 balls doing this.

It's a technique I'm playing with - would like to hear input. I understand the benefits... you can't "steer" or "bit*h" your stroke when the cue is "mid-air."

Your thoughts?

Dave
Click to expand...
I don't actually release the cue when I stroke, but thats the feeling that I'm looking for whenever I practice. I noticed that the lighter I gripped he cue the more it felt like I was releasing the cue, especially on long draw shots.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
(I don't mean across the room)

I'm curious to learn how many of your throw the cue through the CB. I'm not referring to a slip stroke or anything - I'm referring to letting the cue go as it strikes through the CB.

Some good players and Filipinos release the cue, allowing it to strike, and then catching it afterwards. I took some lessons from Nick Mannino years ago and he actually does "throw" the cue through the CB and the cue drops... he plays a real high level. I heard Gene Nagy (hopefully I have his name right) use to run nearly 400 balls doing this.

It's a technique I'm playing with - would like to hear input. I understand the benefits... you can't "steer" or "bit*h" your stroke when the cue is "mid-air."

Your thoughts?

Dave
Click to expand...
I tried it after watching an instructional tape by a familiar instructor(name escapes me), and it feels very natural. Always wanted to incorporate it as my main stroking concept, but never got around to it. Everyone should at least try it. For those who think they twist their wrist at impact, it might help.
 
Majic said:
I don't actually release the cue when I stroke, but thats the feeling that I'm looking for whenever I practice. I noticed that the lighter I gripped he cue the more it felt like I was releasing the cue, especially on long draw shots.
Click to expand...

This is one I have fought for many years and fight it a lot now.

After all these years, I still have to remind myself of something Robert said years ago, "grip the cue as if you are holding an empty styrofaom coffee cup." As I remind myself of this, it seems to allow me to stay smoother, extend/follow through more easily and the cue ball moves with much less effort.
 
Not across the room?

So that means I can't tell you about the man that threw his cue like a spear and it stuck in the wall almost up to the joint? True story...well it really wasn't 'across the room'...more like about five feet away...best cue toss I've ever seen. And it was a nice Joss by the way.

Temper temper...

MM
 
SpiderWebComm said:
(I don't mean across the room)

I'm curious to learn how many of your throw the cue through the CB. I'm not referring to a slip stroke or anything - I'm referring to letting the cue go as it strikes through the CB.

Some good players and Filipinos release the cue, allowing it to strike, and then catching it afterwards. I took some lessons from Nick Mannino years ago and he actually does "throw" the cue through the CB and the cue drops... he plays a real high level. I heard Gene Nagy (hopefully I have his name right) use to run nearly 400 balls doing this.

It's a technique I'm playing with - would like to hear input. I understand the benefits... you can't "steer" or "bit*h" your stroke when the cue is "mid-air."

Your thoughts?

Dave
Click to expand...
Hi Dave, i hope you had a good flight...well about the throw stroke and Nick M. I know nick well and new Gene very well...He did throw the stick, when he shot a ball from the rail the stick would fall to the floor...He and Nick both would break by the same method, and your right Nick is a very good player and Gene was a great player, 3-400 ball runner God rest is soul Gene was a great guy to talk to, we would talk for hours...We had a lot in common, he built and flew model planes and so did I... He was an Archer, musician and pool player and so was i..The next time we are together i will show you all about the throw cue method..It is the purist way to hit a cue ball you almost don`t have to have a good back hand it`s hard to throw off center...any questions on this subject you know you can call me...Your friend RonV.
 
I think it's the most accurate way b/c you're taking away the grip and elbow away from the equation.
Jeremy Jones does it too.
I was told Mosconi did it too.

Oh by the way, a quality cue is needed in this way of stroking. :)
 
Efren's grip

I've watched Efren Reyes's stroke in slow motion on Accu-stats videos and once he starts forward on his last stroke into the cue ball he doesn't have any pressure on his cue. The announcers commented that his cue could actually fall out of his hands because he's not holding onto it he's just guiding it through the cue ball. It was also noted that he uses a heavy cue. The announcers said that Johnny Archer picked Efren's cue up and Johnny said it felt like it weighed 25 ounces!

I've always had a problem gripping my cue too tightly and when I concentrate and loosen my grip I play better with more action on the cue ball.

James
 
SCCues said:
I've watched Efren Reyes's stroke in slow motion on Accu-stats videos and once he starts forward on his last stroke into the cue ball he doesn't have any pressure on his cue. The announcers commented that his cue could actually fall out of his hands because he's not holding onto it he's just guiding it through the cue ball. It was also noted that he uses a heavy cue. The announcers said that Johnny Archer picked Efren's cue up and Johnny said it felt like it weighed 25 ounces!

I've always had a problem gripping my cue too tightly and when I concentrate and loosen my grip I play better with more action on the cue ball.

James
Click to expand...
Efren shot with a 23 oz one time.

Same here. My grip cannot provide any more action than the cue itself b/c the cue accelerates faster when I let it go. Straighter too.
Here's Efren's stroke. His elbow is off-line but not his bridge and holding hand.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
(I don't mean across the room)

I'm curious to learn how many of your throw the cue through the CB. I'm not referring to a slip stroke or anything - I'm referring to letting the cue go as it strikes through the CB.

Some good players and Filipinos release the cue, allowing it to strike, and then catching it afterwards. I took some lessons from Nick Mannino years ago and he actually does "throw" the cue through the CB and the cue drops... he plays a real high level. I heard Gene Nagy (hopefully I have his name right) use to run nearly 400 balls doing this.

It's a technique I'm playing with - would like to hear input. I understand the benefits... you can't "steer" or "bit*h" your stroke when the cue is "mid-air."

Your thoughts?

Dave
Click to expand...

I think a slip stroke is pretty much what you describe. I tend to do that at times, but not always. It's something I picked up when I was practicing my stroke to get a loose wrist action to spin the ball with less force coming out of the arm, which can cause your muscles to tighten and throw the tip off your aim point. When I do it, I think its usually on mid-distance shots, on long shots it does not generate enough force and feel stable for me. On shorter shots I don't feel the same fine control to move the ball a few inches when I let the cue slip through my grip hand.
 
^
Not a slip stroke but a stroke slip.
Slip stroke is when you slip the griphand back before the last stroke.
 
RonV said:
Hi Dave, i hope you had a good flight...well about the throw stroke and Nick M. I know nick well and new Gene very well...He did throw the stick, when he shot a ball from the rail the stick would fall to the floor...He and Nick both would break by the same method, and your right Nick is a very good player and Gene was a great player, 3-400 ball runner God rest is soul Gene was a great guy to talk to, we would talk for hours...We had a lot in common, he built and flew model planes and so did I... He was an Archer, musician and pool player and so was i..The next time we are together i will show you all about the throw cue method..It is the purist way to hit a cue ball you almost don`t have to have a good back hand it`s hard to throw off center...any questions on this subject you know you can call me...Your friend RonV.
Click to expand...

I too, got to know, and play, with Gene during the late nineties until I left NY in 2003.

Besides being a extremely good person, and an unbelievable pool player. Gene was also a very interesting and complex person.

And he absolutely did "throw" his cue. He likened it to the follow thru action of Mark Mcguire's bat swing, or a good tennis, or golf, stroke. It sure worked for him.

I, as many others, miss him.

Jim
 
under pressure loose is harder

Steve Mizerak had a 25 0z. Can't remember if it was a miller or bud lite though. He used the 25 0z R.Black for a break cue. On the 5-10ft tables. I do believe when in (stroke) we do tend to lighten up,the grip and throw it. In the game of pool lighter is better. but under pressure it is harder to keep a loose relaxed grip. mark
 
SCCues said:
I've watched Efren Reyes's stroke in slow motion on Accu-stats videos and once he starts forward on his last stroke into the cue ball he doesn't have any pressure on his cue. The announcers commented that his cue could actually fall out of his hands because he's not holding onto it he's just guiding it through the cue ball. It was also noted that he uses a heavy cue. The announcers said that Johnny Archer picked Efren's cue up and Johnny said it felt like it weighed 25 ounces!

I've always had a problem gripping my cue too tightly and when I concentrate and loosen my grip I play better with more action on the cue ball.

James
Click to expand...

Gripping down or "snatching" is a horrible flaw and should be eliminated at all costs. But what I THINK is being discussed here is the "stroke slip" (not "slip stroke") as Bob Jewett described it in his article Different Strokes.
http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html

I haven't noticed any top players actually release the cue so as to allow it to slide forward in the grip (grip hand sliding backward) but will certainly look for it on some of my Reyes taped matches.

Like most of us, I have to CONSCIOUSLY fight excessive grip pressure and have devoted entire practice sessions to focus on nothing but maintaining the exact same...slight grip pressure throughout the stroke and finish.

In doing so, I know one thing for sure...and that is you do not need to "apply" ANY pressure with the muscles of the grip hand. Gravity and friction are all you need...i.e. just allowing the butt to rest in the U formed by your fingers (or finger) with the web at the base of your thumb and index finger just SLIGHTLY making contact with the top of the butt.

You can shoot a VERY hard shot with NOTHING but the weight of the cue providing sufficient friction to prevent the hand from slipping forward at the initiation of the forward stroke or the cue from slipping back in the grip hand at CB contact.

I will leave "tossing" the cue to others with better coordination than I have.

Regards,
Jim
 
RonV said:
Hi Dave, i hope you had a good flight...well about the throw stroke and Nick M. I know nick well and new Gene very well...He did throw the stick, when he shot a ball from the rail the stick would fall to the floor...He and Nick both would break by the same method, and your right Nick is a very good player and Gene was a great player, 3-400 ball runner God rest is soul Gene was a great guy to talk to, we would talk for hours...We had a lot in common, he built and flew model planes and so did I... He was an Archer, musician and pool player and so was i..The next time we are together i will show you all about the throw cue method..It is the purist way to hit a cue ball you almost don`t have to have a good back hand it`s hard to throw off center...any questions on this subject you know you can call me...Your friend RonV.
Click to expand...

Ron, I was going to ask you about this today but I was tied-up when you called. I've been practicing this a lot because I know I steer the cue through my shots and I have my entire life... I've just learned to play well around it. Watching you started me back on this method.

I'm really looking forward to seeing you again... I'm going to practice a little more and give you a call.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Ron, I was going to ask you about this today but I was tied-up when you called. I've been practicing this a lot because I know I steer the cue through my shots and I have my entire life... I've just learned to play well around it. Watching you started me back on this method.

I'm really looking forward to seeing you again... I'm going to practice a little more and give you a call.
Click to expand...

Hey Spider,

I think there is a guy named Earl out there somewhere and he might give you a lesson in this. I think it starts like light the fuse.....
 
Bigkahuna said:
Hey Spider,

I think there is a guy named Earl out there somewhere and he might give you a lesson in this. I think it starts like light the fuse.....
Click to expand...

I don't need a lesson on it - already have someone for that. I was just curious to get some insight from others. I'm surprised so few people actually do this, considering some of the best players in the world do it. It almost seems like many have never heard of it (or that it sounds quirky to them).
 
SpiderWebComm said:
(I don't mean across the room)

I'm curious to learn how many of your throw the cue through the CB. I'm not referring to a slip stroke or anything - I'm referring to letting the cue go as it strikes through the CB.

Some good players and Filipinos release the cue, allowing it to strike, and then catching it afterwards. I took some lessons from Nick Mannino years ago and he actually does "throw" the cue through the CB and the cue drops... he plays a real high level. I heard Gene Nagy (hopefully I have his name right) use to run nearly 400 balls doing this.

It's a technique I'm playing with - would like to hear input. I understand the benefits... you can't "steer" or "bit*h" your stroke when the cue is "mid-air."

Your thoughts?

Dave
Click to expand...

Yep. It's harder to throw the cue off line when it's traveling through the air. Just make sure to catch it, or you look really stupid. A heavier, forward-balanced cue will make the throwing part easier. A linen wrap helps as well.
 
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RonV said:
Hi Dave, i hope you had a good flight...well about the throw stroke and Nick M. I know nick well and new Gene very well...He did throw the stick, when he shot a ball from the rail the stick would fall to the floor...He and Nick both would break by the same method, and your right Nick is a very good player and Gene was a great player, 3-400 ball runner God rest is soul Gene was a great guy to talk to, we would talk for hours...We had a lot in common, he built and flew model planes and so did I... He was an Archer, musician and pool player and so was i..The next time we are together i will show you all about the throw cue method..It is the purist way to hit a cue ball you almost don`t have to have a good back hand it`s hard to throw off center...any questions on this subject you know you can call me...Your friend RonV.
Click to expand...

C'mon guys...is there a little leg pulling goin' on here? Using a stroke slip is one thing...but you don't have to LET GO of the butt...just let is slip forward on the U cradle of the fingers...just the opposite of a slip stroke.

I've seen at least brief footage of most of the great champions from the Mosconi era until now and have never seen anyone LET GO of the cue.

You're kidding right?

But even the stroke slip MAY be used by a very small fraction of the top players, IMHO it would be one of those "surgeon general's warnings" that ought to be included with any thought of adopting Busta's super loopy stroke or other highly unorthodox techniques.

Regards,
Jim
 
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