tight pockets bad for pool?
- Thread starter jalapus logan
- Start date
First of all...."old school" 9ball was never...and I mean NEVER played with "Call shot"...and it wasn't played with ball in hand after 1 foul...it was played with "push out, 2 ball fouls only"...and if I have to explain them rules to you...then don't refer to "OLD RULES" because you don't know what you're talking about. As far as 10 ball goes....BACK when....no one played 10 ball....because there was no 10 ball, there was 9ball, 8ball, 14.1, One Pocket...and Banks....and for the money....that was it.
As for your comments on tight pockets....when was the last time YOU won a major pool tournament?...or ran a 200+ in 14.1? All you couch Pro's want tight pockets for the real Pro's....so you and your buddies can sit back and say...."man, did you see him miss that shot...hell, I could have made that with my eyes shut".....yeah...right!
I'm sorry, I forgot to ask you your name...and which PRO Player are you, and what tournaments have YOU won?
Glen
PS, Here's a true test of your skills...WIN on tables with 4 1/2" pockets FIRST....then make a name for yourself WINNING on Diamonds with 4 1/2" pockets...THEN...demand tighter pockets be used on tournament tables....because NO ONE can beat you on the 4 1/2" buckets!
I didn't see this mentioned, forgive me if I missed it but how many balls do the "pros" really miss in tournament play due to tight pockets? I imagine a big reason you don't see packages put together is because it is so much more difficult to pocket balls on the break, not necessarily because they are now missing so many balls.
So maybe all we need to do is have the pockets set at 5" for the break and then after the break the mechanic comes in and changes them to 4.25". During this brief intermission the players can go and take a nap to ensure they stay fresh.
Or how about you give them one really big pocket to aim at for the break....say a 6" side pocket to put the one ball in on the break and the rest can then be 4".
Boy it's getting late.
So maybe all we need to do is have the pockets set at 5" for the break and then after the break the mechanic comes in and changes them to 4.25". During this brief intermission the players can go and take a nap to ensure they stay fresh.
Or how about you give them one really big pocket to aim at for the break....say a 6" side pocket to put the one ball in on the break and the rest can then be 4".
Boy it's getting late.
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You don't see 4packs...or 10packs put together any more......because of the alternating break rules! NO player can run out more that ONE rack in a row unless their opponent misses after breaking...then they can run that rack too....but it's still not a break'n run!
Glen
in my opinion the "offensive shot only" someone mentioned is non sense. Pool is not only pocketing balls, i like see people pull out amazing safeties, kick safe, two way shot. Watch people try ridicolous shot impossible to make is not exiting but a bit irritating. Its like when you see bangers try shots simply not possible or very very low percentage. I don't want to see pool played like this by pro players.
Most of the pros I know could care less about the size of the pockets. Clean level tables, live rails and clean balls to ensure a fair break and they're good. Bigger pockets is only going to shorten the playing field between the short stops and the pros. Is alternate break not enough of an equalizer already? Let's quit trying to amateurize pro pool.
Pro golfers play much tougher courses under much tougher conditions than amateurs because they are pros. If we amateurize pool any more it will turn into more of a breaking contest than it already is.
Pro golfers play much tougher courses under much tougher conditions than amateurs because they are pros. If we amateurize pool any more it will turn into more of a breaking contest than it already is.
lack of standards
...let's make the Alabama football field 200 yards long and narrow the goal posts by 5' just to baffle our visitors...
...at San Francisco Stadium, the batter gets 4 strikes and 3 balls to assist in scoring
...in Denver, the hoop is 12 feet off the ground instead of 10 feet to help defense
... at the Masters we are going to make the cup 2" in diameter because these new pros are scoring too low
only in pool have I seen a complete disregard for standardized rules, even at the pro level.
The last three Seminole 10 ball events I attended each had DIFFERENT rules! Slop OK, all call shots, etc...
7', 8', "oversized" 8', 9' tables; fast cloth, slow cloth; 5.25" pockets, 4.5" pockets
the sport with the most varied conditions is probably golf because different course layouts is an integral part of the game, but, they are very consistent about the cup, ball & club standards and they have one set of rules governing OB, fouls & such
pool could be better served if they came up with more consistent standards
...let's make the Alabama football field 200 yards long and narrow the goal posts by 5' just to baffle our visitors...
...at San Francisco Stadium, the batter gets 4 strikes and 3 balls to assist in scoring
...in Denver, the hoop is 12 feet off the ground instead of 10 feet to help defense
... at the Masters we are going to make the cup 2" in diameter because these new pros are scoring too low
only in pool have I seen a complete disregard for standardized rules, even at the pro level.
The last three Seminole 10 ball events I attended each had DIFFERENT rules! Slop OK, all call shots, etc...
7', 8', "oversized" 8', 9' tables; fast cloth, slow cloth; 5.25" pockets, 4.5" pockets
the sport with the most varied conditions is probably golf because different course layouts is an integral part of the game, but, they are very consistent about the cup, ball & club standards and they have one set of rules governing OB, fouls & such
pool could be better served if they came up with more consistent standards
Lance Link
Banned
If I want to give my table tighter pockets...
How does one go about it ?
Is there a way for me to do it myself ?
Or is it best to call a 'table mechanic' first ?
Any idea on $$ either way ?
Thank you in advance...
How does one go about it ?
Is there a way for me to do it myself ?
Or is it best to call a 'table mechanic' first ?
Any idea on $$ either way ?
Thank you in advance...
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Agreed, the good players of my day loved gambling under poor conditions. Because it made it tougher for their opponent! They could adjust to ANY condition.
tight or loose pockets are subjective in my opinion. I can consider 4,5 in buckets or tight pockets. And i think 4,5 in is not that tight i think is the perfect size, you can still cheat pockets but you need some accuracy on shots under the rail. And someone say with tight pockets pool is ruined because you don't see many power shots is wrong. Simply you don't see amazing shots played by bad players, only good players can pull off great shots. Corey Deuel made some amazing shots in tight pockets.
The success of any game or sport is very fragile. Tampering with a game’s physical parameters could be lethal. Start shrinking the hole in golf and see what that does to their game. Does anyone here think that the precipitous fall in the popularity of pool could be in part tied to this subject? Keep tightening the pocket and see how many more people this brings into the game.
From what I see, tightening the pockets, even if only for the top players, means more safes, slower play, and more misses. This does not look like a winning formula to me.
From what I see, tightening the pockets, even if only for the top players, means more safes, slower play, and more misses. This does not look like a winning formula to me.
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This is more or less why I started this discussion. For what it's worth, I happen to like 4.5" pockets (with Diamond specs). In any event, I just think that pool could put on a better display and increase it's popularity if we had more performances like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdonlYjUbiE
I looks like the tourney above were played on stock gold crowns. If you shimmed that table down to 4" or less, the game would have taken much longer and I would have stopped watching and would have gone out to cut the grass instead...
I disagree with everything you said completely. IMO the larger pockets and ramped up offense to the point that the fans "expect" the pros to make every shot and run 7 packs is what hurt pool, not the other way around.
I want to see a tough shot be a tough shot. I want to see the pros slip at times, miss a shot, and when I see a pro catch fire and run some racks I want it to truly mean something because the feat is not easy and is not happening on every table in every match of the tournament at that moment.
Who wants to watch pro's run 9 packs on buckets under low pressure because the table is so freaking easy and having the only factor in who wins be a unlucky rub on the break shot? No thanks, that is largely pools problem and why snooker is considered a true "Sport" and has more money then this game atm, it has more respect because it challenges the pros to a higher degree at a far more regular basis.
I want to see a tough shot be a tough shot. I want to see the pros slip at times, miss a shot, and when I see a pro catch fire and run some racks I want it to truly mean something because the feat is not easy and is not happening on every table in every match of the tournament at that moment.
Who wants to watch pro's run 9 packs on buckets under low pressure because the table is so freaking easy and having the only factor in who wins be a unlucky rub on the break shot? No thanks, that is largely pools problem and why snooker is considered a true "Sport" and has more money then this game atm, it has more respect because it challenges the pros to a higher degree at a far more regular basis.
Just so you know....they WERE playing on a Diamond Professional...with 4.5 pockets
and what made the difference in how fast that match went....if you didn't notice...was WINNER BREAKS!
I never once mentioned playing on buckets. I don't think that the match I linked above is "so freaking easy". I just wanted to question the dogma that tighter is necessarily better. Tighter is just where it seems to be going, and, as a player, I am fine with that.
However, I would recommend that anyone who is interested in continuing this discussion to come on down to Lexington, KY and we can talk about it over a game or two at our pool room. It has furniture grade Olhausens (mostly 4 X 8's) in poor repair. And yes, they do have buckets. However, you will be challenged by them all the same. Why? Well, just try to shoot a straight in shot with medium speed with draw and watch the object ball hit the DEAD CENTER of the back of the pocket and then BOUNCE RIGHT BACK ONTO THE TABLE! It's great fun. Why do I mention this? Because THIS IS THE ONLY POOL HALL LEFT in our area! If you don't like that location, we can go on down to one of several dive bars and play on valley cougars freshly recovered with duct tape.
Why do I mention any of this? Because if no one is interested in increasing the popularity of pool, then all of this jibber jabber about pocket sizes and specs become a moot point. Just go read the Room Owner Discussion subforum here. It's not a pretty sight. Rooms all over the nation are closing. Those that are left are having a tough go of it. I don't even go to the room I mentioned above anymore, by the way.
So, let's not talk about pocket size anymore. Let's try to promote the game we all love. If we can't do that, then we will all have to change our handles to basementdweller...
Just so you know....they WERE playing on a Diamond Professional...with 4.5 pockets
That's cool. Did Diamond have larger pockets back then? I'm just wondering because I played in a tourney at Bank Shots in Louisville several weeks ago and they definately had looser pockets that the one's made nowadays.
Also, I like the winner break format. But that is just me.
Just so you know....they WERE playing on a Diamond Professional...with 4.5 pockets
And Earl is playing, he gets into his groove and goes.
True that.