I am trying to get over a cold but have to stop by the pool room and since I have been away from the table for almost a week I will give this a try and report back with how I make out. :smile:
Time required to be an A player
- Thread starter NeedTheSix
- Start date
Boy did you say a mouthful. I've seen plenty consistent run out 9 ball players, well into the "A" category play solid "C" level straight pool. :killingme: It is a very humbling game. :yes:
Exactly. A "C" player in our league is an 80ball runner.
I would categorize myself as a B+ player. I did this 10 ball ghost drill today twice. Got a 66 the first time and a 72 the second. I don't think this drill is a good indicator of the different levels. I do, however, think it is a great indicator of your individual progress. A year ago I used to do this drill all the time and would consistently score in the low-mid 50's. So in a year's time I have gotten about 1 1/2-2 balls better.
Straight pool is a whole different animal. My high run in straight pool is 47, but I don't play it very often. I played a little today and the last time I played was probably 4 months ago. I need to start playing 14.1 more and try to up that run.
As far as time required, I think it is different for everyone. I have been playing 5 years as of last month. I am getting close to A level, but it will probably be another year or two of consistent play (I hope anyway).
I believe the best guage of an A player is running 100 in straight pool. To me, that is when you can call yourself an A. Other games make it harder to judge because of the back and forth of the game. In 14.1, running 100 means you stayed at the table and controlled the outcome.
I know of several, but they all invested hours upon hours. Like 4 or more hours a day every day for a few years and none were particularly gifted in terms of H/E. The vast majority of 30 year olds have other commitments that wont allow that time for pool. I believe that unless you have a physical handicap, you can become an A player if you have the time and character.
Note that it takes a certain type of person to be good at pool. If you can't control your emotions, handle pressure, or get frustrated easily, you probably wont become a strong player no matter how much time you put in. I just wanted to point out that there are generally no physical reasons why someone who starts at a reasonable age can't become a decent player.
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I don't necessarily disagree but I will say that I know a few guys that just don't have that much hand-eye coordination and I think that it would be nearly impossible for them to ever be decent players (so I guess I do disagree). When I consider how frustrating it is for me to struggle with a particular shot and then I consider someone who is struggling with ALL the shots - that would be torture. So while I think these types of folks could continue to improve it would be a monumental achievement for them to become decent players. The natural ability definitely helps when it comes to getting started in this game. It's an awful high hurdle to job when you start out and you just aren't that good. I think this is why a lot of people give up on the game.
This is merely a test of your offensive firepower....
I had a guy here in town make me try this last fall after he found it online... We call the guy "Little Stevie" and he is always after me to hit the road and play in the big boy tournaments... I had not heard of the test yet so I didn't have a clue as to what the purpose was...
I just counted the racks I completed... I ran 7 out of 10... I don't think I missed the 1 ball in any of the other 3 so my score would place me at Pro Speed....
I know from experience that a Pro will eat my lunch gambling or playing anything but short sets... I will also add the caveat of I did the test on a 9ft AE Schmidt with around 5 inch pockets and I took BIH after the break..... My score would have been drastically lower on a 9ft Diamond with pro cut 4.5" pockets or if I started w/o BIH......
If you had a test of 10 defensive shots that had to be executed perfectly that you repeated 10 times and then took the average of both tests you would get a far better indicator....
Maybe one of our instructors on the forum could throw together a defensive skills test for us =)
2 top instructors
It has been pointed out already I am sure but two top instructors have told me 3-5 yrs with at least 6 hours a day minimum. Another well known writer and instructor said to me "If you don't have at least 4 hours a day of determination you are wasting your time if you expect to reach a higher level" .Well, I claim progress not perfection .I put in 3 hours yesterday and 2 so far today . I have to take care of my income first and there in is the problem.Where do I etch out an extra 6 hours a day for pool ??? It's not like I do not love the game.I guess I will work into 4 first and go from there.Seems like in fall and winter the urge to play hits me more as well.
It has been pointed out already I am sure but two top instructors have told me 3-5 yrs with at least 6 hours a day minimum. Another well known writer and instructor said to me "If you don't have at least 4 hours a day of determination you are wasting your time if you expect to reach a higher level" .Well, I claim progress not perfection .I put in 3 hours yesterday and 2 so far today . I have to take care of my income first and there in is the problem.Where do I etch out an extra 6 hours a day for pool ??? It's not like I do not love the game.I guess I will work into 4 first and go from there.Seems like in fall and winter the urge to play hits me more as well.
Oh, to hell with this. I can get you to A speed in one year. Both you and I will have to quit our jobs and you'll have to pay me a year's worth of salary but make no mistake of it, you'll be playing A-speed, I promise you that.
One year!
The big thing is to avoid bad habits, they can delay your progress for years, in some cases for life. You also have to genuinely want to improve.
I don't know anyone who reached A level on autopilot, just playing for fun and never specfically practicing. Even matching up & gambling all the time doesn't automatically get you there. You need to be a student of the game and work on killing your weaknesses, studying why shots work, maybe doing a little research away from the table. One thing I've noticed about A players is they're often smarter than they let on. As measureman pointed out in another thread, after a certain point your brains are the only thing left to work on.
I don't know anyone who reached A level on autopilot, just playing for fun and never specfically practicing. Even matching up & gambling all the time doesn't automatically get you there. You need to be a student of the game and work on killing your weaknesses, studying why shots work, maybe doing a little research away from the table. One thing I've noticed about A players is they're often smarter than they let on. As measureman pointed out in another thread, after a certain point your brains are the only thing left to work on.
This. :thumbup:
Joe T
Well-known member
Can't answer the how long does it take question as I’ve seen a yr to never but wanted to touch on my rating system that was referenced to. First off over the yrs (book was put out in 99) I've though about raising up the numbers a bit because I believe over the last 12 yrs the average amateur players have become more knowledgeable. Every time I think about doing I don’t because I actually think it hold pretty close to true still.
I could also put the pro’s in 3 classes saying;
Low level pro or open level 70-80
National pro 80-90 and World Class 90-100?
And I would probably bet any nonpro player if they wanted to get to 80?
I don’t say much of this strictly on opinion or players 1 time scores. I have been testing students for yrs AND I was probably the 1st ever to organize and run a 10 ghost league in which all players pretty much fell accordingly, had over 100 players. The league was fantastic as it gave all members 30 ball in hands per night which I believe is the main reason we had a 99% improvement rate!! Made the weaker players learn
We also had a couple of strong B’s and low A’s that hated it and even quit because their ego’s couldn’t handle it, their numbers didn’t reflect their letters, lol
So I’m not in total disagreement on some thoughts posted here and perhaps it could use a little adjustment but I don’t think it’s far off. And it is strictly an offensive test but its rare that’s a player’s offensive and defensive skills vary widely.
As for the 14.1 making the 9 ballers weak? That plays the other way also ya know. I’ve seen some pretty good 14.1ers (100 ball runners) that struggle trying move the cb around as much as rotation games require. Both could adjust pretty good with a little dedication with the 9br’s making the mental adjustment to keeping it as simple as possible but they pretty much have all the physical shots required already and the 14.1ers adding some advance cb control as they already posses the mental aspect of how games are meant to be played. We all have different gifts.
Peace to all and go run some balls!
I could also put the pro’s in 3 classes saying;
Low level pro or open level 70-80
National pro 80-90 and World Class 90-100?
And I would probably bet any nonpro player if they wanted to get to 80?
I don’t say much of this strictly on opinion or players 1 time scores. I have been testing students for yrs AND I was probably the 1st ever to organize and run a 10 ghost league in which all players pretty much fell accordingly, had over 100 players. The league was fantastic as it gave all members 30 ball in hands per night which I believe is the main reason we had a 99% improvement rate!! Made the weaker players learn
We also had a couple of strong B’s and low A’s that hated it and even quit because their ego’s couldn’t handle it, their numbers didn’t reflect their letters, lolSo I’m not in total disagreement on some thoughts posted here and perhaps it could use a little adjustment but I don’t think it’s far off. And it is strictly an offensive test but its rare that’s a player’s offensive and defensive skills vary widely.
As for the 14.1 making the 9 ballers weak? That plays the other way also ya know. I’ve seen some pretty good 14.1ers (100 ball runners) that struggle trying move the cb around as much as rotation games require. Both could adjust pretty good with a little dedication with the 9br’s making the mental adjustment to keeping it as simple as possible but they pretty much have all the physical shots required already and the 14.1ers adding some advance cb control as they already posses the mental aspect of how games are meant to be played. We all have different gifts.
Peace to all and go run some balls!
Can't answer the how long does it take question as I’ve seen a yr to never but wanted to touch on my rating system that was referenced to. First off over the yrs (book was put out in 99) I've though about raising up the numbers a bit because I believe over the last 12 yrs the average amateur players have become more knowledgeable. Every time I think about doing I don’t because I actually think it hold pretty close to true still.
I could also put the pro’s in 3 classes saying;
Low level pro or open level 70-80
National pro 80-90 and World Class 90-100?
And I would probably bet any nonpro player if they wanted to get to 80?
I don’t say much of this strictly on opinion or players 1 time scores. I have been testing students for yrs AND I was probably the 1st ever to organize and run a 10 ghost league in which all players pretty much fell accordingly, had over 100 players. The league was fantastic as it gave all members 30 ball in hands per night which I believe is the main reason we had a 99% improvement rate!! Made the weaker players learn
So I’m not in total disagreement on some thoughts posted here and perhaps it could use a little adjustment but I don’t think it’s far off. And it is strictly an offensive test but its rare that’s a player’s offensive and defensive skills vary widely.
As for the 14.1 making the 9 ballers weak? That plays the other way also ya know. I’ve seen some pretty good 14.1ers (100 ball runners) that struggle trying move the cb around as much as rotation games require. Both could adjust pretty good with a little dedication with the 9br’s making the mental adjustment to keeping it as simple as possible but they pretty much have all the physical shots required already and the 14.1ers adding some advance cb control as they already posses the mental aspect of how games are meant to be played. We all have different gifts.
Peace to all and go run some balls!
Joe this drill is great practice, I tried it the other day and liked it, gives me something to do instead of just slapping balls around or when I get bored with some of the drills I already do. It is like practicing 14.1 but for rotation which is my weakest game. :smile:
I tried this drill for the first time tonight (10 ball). I have been doing this same drill with 9 ball for a long time; however, I really haven't done it within the last year or two.
I was actually surprised that I scored a 54, which the scale would consider a B+ player and very close to an A and I know that I left 10 - 15 points on the table from missing a semi easy shot that would have led to a runout, or at least several more points.
I generally consider myself a C or C+ player so I am not sure if this was just a good night, the scale is a little generous or I am just a little hard on myself.
However, it is a great drill and is good to have some type of scale to measure yourself against.
Thanks Joe.
I am playing on a 9 foot table with 4 1/2" pockets. I would say the pockets are "fair", not overly generous but not overly tight either.
I would say, on average, I run 2 or 3 racks with ball in hand out of 10 in 9 ball. However, this can vary widely because I have beat the ghost before; however, I am definitely the underdog playing the ghost.
Joe T
Well-known member
Thats about what I figured 2-3 runouts and maybe more at 9b and averaging 5 ball runs in 10B which I would qualify easily as a B. With 8-10 balls on the table navigating to the 5 is not that easy.
C players here in the NE I would say are at least average for the country if not a touch above and I don't think they're are any that want to bet they run 5 balls in 10b with BBIH? If there are please look me up
Thats about what I figured 2-3 runouts and maybe more at 9b and averaging 5 ball runs in 10B which I would qualify easily as a B. With 8-10 balls on the table navigating to the 5 is not that easy.
C players here in the NE I would say are at least average for the country if not a touch above and I don't think they're are any that want to bet they run 5 balls in 10b with BBIH? If there are please look me up
Thanks for the feedback Joe, I appreciate it.
Can't answer the how long does it take question as I’ve seen a yr to never but wanted to touch on my rating system that was referenced to. First off over the yrs (book was put out in 99) I've though about raising up the numbers a bit because I believe over the last 12 yrs the average amateur players have become more knowledgeable. Every time I think about doing I don’t because I actually think it hold pretty close to true still.
I could also put the pro’s in 3 classes saying;
Low level pro or open level 70-80
National pro 80-90 and World Class 90-100?
And I would probably bet any nonpro player if they wanted to get to 80?
I don’t say much of this strictly on opinion or players 1 time scores. I have been testing students for yrs AND I was probably the 1st ever to organize and run a 10 ghost league in which all players pretty much fell accordingly, had over 100 players. The league was fantastic as it gave all members 30 ball in hands per night which I believe is the main reason we had a 99% improvement rate!! Made the weaker players learn
So I’m not in total disagreement on some thoughts posted here and perhaps it could use a little adjustment but I don’t think it’s far off. And it is strictly an offensive test but its rare that’s a player’s offensive and defensive skills vary widely.
As for the 14.1 making the 9 ballers weak? That plays the other way also ya know. I’ve seen some pretty good 14.1ers (100 ball runners) that struggle trying move the cb around as much as rotation games require. Both could adjust pretty good with a little dedication with the 9br’s making the mental adjustment to keeping it as simple as possible but they pretty much have all the physical shots required already and the 14.1ers adding some advance cb control as they already posses the mental aspect of how games are meant to be played. We all have different gifts.
Peace to all and go run some balls!
Who is this?