Tip Install Issues

RadicalOne

RadicalOne

PBIA Certified Instructor
Silver Member
OK - I've had some issues with this one shaft. I've had 4 layered tips installed by two different cue smiths. I've tried Kamui, G2, American Eagle, and the latest - Ultraskin. All have popped off in the first play session after a very long cure time (min 24 hours).

With the last attempt (Ultraskin) all was going well until I started hitting with spin. On my third "normal" draw shot the tip came off. The draw was perfect - not extreme power, just smooth good stroke at what I call a 4 speed. The hit sounded and felt perfect. After the shot I saw the tip on the table... :confused:

So - what can I recommend to my installers? Does anyone know what type of material is used in the ferrules for JD cues? Some type of high-impact plastic? Any suggestions would help.

It's a nice shaft/cue and I enjoy shooting with it. However, it's been months since I've had a tip "stick"....

picture.php
 
Have you told them to rough both the tip and the ferrule with 80 or 100 grit sandpaper? If that don't work, rough with the same grit, then take a razor and cut score lines in both tip and ferrule. I use Loctite super glue Gel Control. I have only had 1 tip pop off and I did this same thing to it when he brought it back to me the next day and its been fine since (4 months).

Hope this helps,

Nathan Brugmann
 
I see the "score" marks from his "sanding" on both the tip and ferrule. Work was done on a lathe (Hightower). I was hoping the pic captured that... ? Not very deep score marks though... I have some experience working with wood and it looks like the marks 100 grit would make (?).

Maybe the key is the type of adhesive with that ferrule?
 
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there are some ferrule materials that do not stick well to any glue.............

1 change the ferrule and face it off........
2 sand the tip and put a few drops of thin CA on it ... count to 10 and then dab it off with a new paper towel
3 spray kicker on it
4 sand it lightly
5 glue it on with loctite control gel

done.............

Kim
 
Bad glue

CA does have a short shelf life after it has been opened, Ask your repair guy if he is using fresh CA. Maybe what he is using has been opened to long and has gone bad. It's happens more then you think.
 
You have to take your shaft to someone who knows what they is doing. This is a simple repair & if they can't do it, then you have to find someone else. Simple as that...JER
 
I agree with Kim,there are a couple of ferrule materials out there that just do NOT take glue.

I typically see these on cheaper imports. While this JD cue isn't exactly cheap,it IS an import. Maybe this material is the same stuff.

So far,I've ran into 10 shafts with this stuff,and after letting the customer know what was going on,I wound up changing it to either Juma or a nice clean melamine.

For what it's worth,I've had to start using accelerator on the last couple Predators I've done,even with FRESH,right out of the package glue. I use Loctite Professional. Tommy D.
 
Tommy-D said:
I agree with Kim,there are a couple of ferrule materials out there that just do NOT take glue.

I typically see these on cheaper imports. While this JD cue isn't exactly cheap,it IS an import. Maybe this material is the same stuff.

So far,I've ran into 10 shafts with this stuff,and after letting the customer know what was going on,I wound up changing it to either Juma or a nice clean melamine.

For what it's worth,I've had to start using accelerator on the last couple Predators I've done,even with FRESH,right out of the package glue. I use Loctite Professional. Tommy D.
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It drives you crazy when the tip pops off 3 times on the same cue. I had that happen to me and you feel like a fool. I changed the ferrule and no more problems .... didn't make a profit on that one..... I have seen a few like that.

On the other hand, I had a guy at the pool hall come up to me and tell me that he had the tip put on his cue by another repairman and it keeps popping off. It was a cheap import cue. I told him that wouldn't happen if I put it on...... I changed the ferrule and put on a tip. I am a hero............... Never had another problem.

LOL

Kim
 
The cheap ferrules from the imports that I have seen, (the ones that will not hold a tip) have a waxy look. If you see one of these, beware. I have not tried it, but maybe a solvent wipe on the facing would help. Kim, I agree with you, the fix for me has been a quality ferrule change.

Alan

Phelps Custom Cues
 
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Years ago I did cue repair for a local billiards store. It was a side thing, and I didn't make much money, but it was fun and got me a few extra spending dollars.

The store owner came to me one day and asked if I'd do the tips on all the house cues at a local Church's rec room. He had donated the cues to them and some of the tips had popped off. I agreed, and he brought me the cues. After all 25 tips isn't that much to do for free, if it's for a good cause.

Well, I ended up doing 25 free ferrules and tips, on top of the first 25 free tips, and the dozen or so that I had to replace when they popped off. lol!

No good deed goes unpunished!

Just kidding. It was all worth it, and I'd do it all again.


But I don't like those cheap import ferrules that won't hold tips.


Oh, and by the way. I don't think roughing or scoring the tip or the ferrule will improve the adhesion of tips if you are using any type of Cyanoacrylate adhesive. Actually, it hurts. CA glues are meant to have clean flat close fitting surfaces. CA actually works best if the 2 parts fit like 2 plates of flat glass against each other. Scoring or roughing the surface works with glues that need that roughness to grab on to. CA's don't need that, they need flat tight fitting surfaces.

Royce
 
I, like the other posters, have had a tip pop off the same import cues multiple times, no matter what I did. So like the others, I changed out the ferrule and Voila! no more problems, happy customer, no profit, yada, yada, yada.:grin:

But the question that continues to bug me is "What glue/adhesive/cement was used originally that kept the tip stuck on for so long?" I mean, something was working - the cues I've had, the tip had simply worn down or been ground down by the owner.

Gary
 
GBCues said:
But the question that continues to bug me is "What glue/adhesive/cement was used originally that kept the tip stuck on for so long?" I mean, something was working - the cues I've had, the tip had simply worn down or been ground down by the owner.

Gary
Click to expand...

Good question. Maybe the cue manufacturer prepare the surface of the ferrule with a special primer before applying the cyanoacrylate.
 
GBCues said:
I, like the other posters, have had a tip pop off the same import cues multiple times, no matter what I did. So like the others, I changed out the ferrule and Voila! no more problems, happy customer, no profit, yada, yada, yada.:grin:

But the question that continues to bug me is "What glue/adhesive/cement was used originally that kept the tip stuck on for so long?" I mean, something was working - the cues I've had, the tip had simply worn down or been ground down by the owner.

Gary
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Gary, I've wondered the same thing, and every original tip that I have cut off those hard to glue ferrules was held securely.

SMH,
Alan
 
GBCues said:
I, like the other posters, have had a tip pop off the same import cues multiple times, no matter what I did. So like the others, I changed out the ferrule and Voila! no more problems, happy customer, no profit, yada, yada, yada.:grin:

But the question that continues to bug me is "What glue/adhesive/cement was used originally that kept the tip stuck on for so long?" I mean, something was working - the cues I've had, the tip had simply worn down or been ground down by the owner.

Gary
Click to expand...
i tried contacting cuetec about the same issue a few years ago
never did get a response
changed the ferrules on about 40 cuetec house cues out of complete frustration
 
BHQ said:
i tried contacting cuetec about the same issue a few years ago
never did get a response
changed the ferrules on about 40 cuetec house cues out of complete frustration
Click to expand...

Same here Brent. I changed most of the ferrules on "Snooker's Cue-tecs but then he practically gave those away an replaced with new, cheaper cue-tecs and the pain started all over again. At the time I was doing his house cues for 3.00 each. The new ones needed ferrules replaced and he figured he shouldn't have to pay for new tips to replace the ones that would come off. That's when I quit doing their repair work and you started.

Dick
 
I've had this issue multiple times on import cues. First couple that popped off, I replaced ferrule and tip; next few I just put a fiber pad between ferrule and tip- none have returned!

Zim's Samsung Tablet
 
Back in the '80s I put tips on cues for the guys at a big pool room. I had a nice big metal lath in the back room. I put tips on everything from Szambotis,Balabuskas down to the nastiest looking cheap cues and never had one pop off.
They were all Le pro tips. I would sand off the coating and cut an x across half the tip.
Rough up the ferule and cut another x. Put a little super glue gel on the tip. Center the tip on the ferule then run the cutting tool against the tip gently. Go have a smoke and cut it down and shape it.
 
Maybe all you guys (cue builders and reprairmen) already know this stuff but I'm mentioning this because all I ever hear is Super Glue or Loctite Gel. I assume this is in part because its so darn easy to find plus it does work great in most cases. But looks like not on these cheap ferrules.

Loctite's web site isn't conducive to my point so I'll use Permabond. See below basic variety of off the shelf adhesives and their general properties. Note a couple are specific to Impact and Shear Strength. #735 and #737. The OP's draw shot caused shear load.

The card for the Loctite Gel calls out impact but what about shear strength. On the Industrial side of the Loctite brand, there's many more application specific products, so I'm not promoting any brand here, just showing a simple list of formulate properties of "Super Glues"

http://www.permabond.com/en/en-contact-all.php?form_type=cyanoacrylate_selector

Not a cuemaker, just an industrial products junky.
 
Loctite makes a primer for plastic. It prepares the plastic for the glue. I use it on every plastic ferrule I put a tip on and have had very good results with it.
Loctite 770 Primer.
 
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