Tips coming off..

pescadoman

pescadoman

Randy
Silver Member
I've done plenty of tips before and this is the first time I have had such a problem. The only thing that has changed is the tip and the glue.

I ran out of the glue I was using(Cue Components), so I went and bought some Gorilla. Three tips later I concluded that was a bad idea and went looking for 454. Four tips into 454 and now I am at a loss as to what is going on.

Method:

Lathe speed...1500
Glue Loctite 454

Face ferrule..I don't normally hit face with paper
Lightly hit corner of ferrule with paper.
Sand tip on flat of vise surface.
Wipe tip surface with new paper towel.
Apply glue. I have been moving it around a bit with applicator, but nothing I haven't done before without issue.
Apply tip to ferrule and center.
Move crossslide over to maintain pressure. Only enough to squeeze excess glue.
Trim excess tip then shape then burnish..
I try to avoid heat.

I honestly don't know what is going on here.

Tips in question were old style Kamui blacks and a Samsara break tip.

Any help is appreciated.
 
was this on the same cue??? if so some cues have crap ferrul material and they wont hold glue well, changing the ferrule is best.

other than that everything sounds right i always use tightbond med. viscosity superglue and ive never had a problem with tips poping off.
(knock knock "on wood")

i usually always rough up the face of the ferrule a touch also to help with adhesion.
 
sounds about right

the only thing i do different is, slightly wet the tip a bit as the moisture helps the super glue set.
 
Trent said:
was this on the same cue??? if so some cues have crap ferrul material and they wont hold glue well, changing the ferrule is best.

other than that everything sounds right i always use tightbond med. viscosity superglue and ive never had a problem with tips poping off.
(knock knock "on wood")

i usually always rough up the face of the ferrule a touch also to help with adhesion.
Click to expand...

three different cues.
 
Use the Searing method & prime the surfaces first. Regular Locktite CA gel works fine...the rubberized version is fine too. After facing off the ferrule then lightly scar the face with the corner of your razor. Then wipe a light coat of the CA onto the face & let dry. Scuff the tip back and lightly coat with the CA as well. Then when both surfaces are dry...once again LIGHTLY scuff & scar both surfaces. Careful not to scuff off the CA. Then appy the CA to the ferrule face only then set the tip in place & hold with firm (not too firm) pressure. You can then spray with a quality CA accelerator if you wish to speed up the adhesion process. Since learning this from Dennis I've never had a tip pop off no matter what type of glue I used.:wink:
 
Well, As I read your process I see you don't "score" your face of the ferrule or tip.

Score means take a blade and make a tic tac toe pattern on the ferrule and the tip this is to get better adhesion, and before some one say's scuffing the ferrule with rough sand paper does the same thing NO IT DOES NOT, get that out of your head. One other thing I use before glueing is a accelerator which comes in a marker from loctite, this is a huge step in preventing pop offs, score the tip and ferrule then use the accelerator on both surfaces and let dry for 1 minute, then glue. As some one already said, some ferrules like cuetec, lucasi, and other chinese import ferrules don't glue aswell so scoring really helps. When scoring an Ivory ferrule be gentle and very careful. Most are having trouble with the Samsara's, I had trouble with the first one I put on my break cue. My break ferrule material is a special material not on the market and is so hard I had to score it with 8 marks each direction and when I glued it, I left it in for about 4 hrs.

One other common mistake when putting on the samsara break tips is guy's not cutting the tip down far enough, if you leave most of the tip on you have one hell of a high tip which when hit off center puts extream pressure on one side of the tip some times resulting in the tip poping off. Trim it down 60% or more and this problem all but disapears.
 
Last edited:
I cringe when I see people "scoring" a ferrule.
If this is necessary for your tip to stay on, something is wrong.
Just scuff it lightly with some 220 as is spins.
Never touch it with your fingers.
Make sure your glue is fresh.
Prime the tip with ultra-thin.
No more problem!
 
desi2960 said:
the only thing i do different is, slightly wet the tip a bit as the moisture helps the super glue set.
Click to expand...

Wetting one side may be the problem. When you read that the glue is activated they are talking about just the exposure to the moisture in the air once out of the tube. What may be happening is the glue may be drying in sort of a layered effect due to the added moisture. This may create a weak bond. Another thing is you don't want the glue to flash cure such as with an activator. This makes the glue crystallize and can cause it to break down on impact. Of course we are just brain storming based on what you have told us. The real answer is get what has worked for you in the past and stick with it.
 
Ive been having the same issue and trying to figure it out. Ive been using White Diamonds, and Ive tried scoring just the tip, just the ferrule, scoring both, and the sandpaper method as well. Im thinking the ferrule of the cue Im working on is just to soft for that hard of tip.

Of note, its seems to work fine until it gets an off center hit, then there shes goes.
 
pescadoman said:
I've done plenty of tips before and this is the first time I have had such a problem. The only thing that has changed is the tip and the glue.

I ran out of the glue I was using(Cue Components), so I went and bought some Gorilla. Three tips later I concluded that was a bad idea and went looking for 454. Four tips into 454 and now I am at a loss as to what is going on.

Method:

Lathe speed...1500
Glue Loctite 454

Face ferrule..I don't normally hit face with paper
Lightly hit corner of ferrule with paper.
Sand tip on flat of vise surface.
Wipe tip surface with new paper towel.
Apply glue. I have been moving it around a bit with applicator, but nothing I haven't done before without issue.
Apply tip to ferrule and center.
Move crossslide over to maintain pressure. Only enough to squeeze excess glue.
Trim excess tip then shape then burnish..
I try to avoid heat.

I honestly don't know what is going on here.

Tips in question were old style Kamui blacks and a Samsara break tip.

Any help is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Get a piece of 1/2" flat wood about 4" x 4" and glue on a piece of 100 grit non clog paper. Lap the glue side of the tip by working it against the sand block in a rotating pattern until it has a flat and uniform face.

Also make sure your cutting tool is very sharp for facing. I have noticed that when the cutting tool gets a little dull that is can leave a slight arc to
the ferrule face that can effect the gluing interface area bond.

After facing just touch the ferrule face with 320 while spinning and all your troubles should be over if your use Super Glue Gel.

Good Luck,

Rick G
 
Sheldon said:
I cringe when I see people "scoring" a ferrule.
If this is necessary for your tip to stay on, something is wrong.
Just scuff it lightly with some 220 as is spins.
Never touch it with your fingers.Make sure your glue is fresh.
Prime the tip with ultra-thin.
No more problem!
Click to expand...


Good points Sheldon.

The oil from your skin may be the problem, so make sure you clean the surface and then do not touch it with your fingers. Applying a thin coat to the tip is also a good idea, just make sure you lightly sand before you apply the tip.
 
Some of these tips absorb a lot of gel .Kamui for certain. Make sure you're applying enough to coat ferrule and tip, move the tip around to spread on both sides, don't try aligning once it starts to set. The usual preparation, sand and level the tip using 220 grit. Clean ferrule face with whatever method you prefer once old tip is removed. Do not touch face of ferrule with finger. I keep some pressure on temporarily with the tailstock. :)

Mario
 
I've been in your shoes

After changing to a glue available locally I had plenty of tips falling off.
Very frustrating and I took a dive down in to some new glue versions and
here is a thread we had running not that far back :
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2648927#post2648927

The new procedure I use which is mentioned in this thread has made my tips
stick like anything. You really feel them suck to the ferrule and I tested yesterday
using Tigers CA glue - same result - possibly quicker cure.

K
 
Newton said:
After changing to a glue available locally I had plenty of tips falling off.
Very frustrating and I took a dive down in to some new glue versions and
here is a thread we had running not that far back :
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2648927#post2648927

The new procedure I use which is mentioned in this thread has made my tips
stick like anything. You really feel them suck to the ferrule and I tested yesterday
using Tigers CA glue - same result - possibly quicker cure.

K
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the scoring BOTH ferrule and tip?? I never touch glue sides with my hand.

Thank you all for the help. This has taken it's toll on me in confidence and money(90.00 in tips, plus what I still have to fix)
 
Tips coming off

> You could be experiencing problems related to flatness on the bottom of the tip or the ferrule.

I use a razor blade to check the ferrule. I also use a steel plate that is covered with adhesive backed sandpaper for sanding the tip,not satisfied with using a wood block or the top of the lathe headstock. I use the other flat side to check the tips.

I've even started using a blade to scrape all the sanding dust off the tips. Tommy D.
 
If you have tips that soak up your glue (moori is one) or ferrules that don't seem to want to adhere, do like I outlined earlier, except hit the ferrule with a quick shot of CA accelerator right before you put the tip on. Place it carefully, you wont get a chance to move it around!
I always use loctite super glue gel on tips.
 
All the advice given is very good! It is just a thought but, I would ask if you are absolutely sure that your carriage and crosslide are square and locked in postion when you face the ferrule? If not the face may not be straight. It can be coned, either higher or lower in the middle. This could cause a probl;lem as you are describing.
 
tsp&b said:
All the advice given is very good! It is just a thought but, I would ask if you are absolutely sure that your carriage and crosslide are square and locked in postion when you face the ferrule? If not the face may not be straight. It can be coned, either higher or lower in the middle. This could cause a probl;lem as you are describing.
Click to expand...

Everything is locked tight, including the tool post. I have a DRO so I can see if anything moves at all.

I should include that I hadn't done the kamui blacks or samsara before. I'll grab my playing cue today and put on a soft with some of the suggestions I have been given and see what happens. I ran out of meds and am waiting for Atlas to get their next supply.
 
Tommy-D said:
> You could be experiencing problems related to flatness on the bottom of the tip or the ferrule.

I use a razor blade to check the ferrule. I also use a steel plate that is covered with adhesive backed sandpaper for sanding the tip,not satisfied with using a wood block or the top of the lathe headstock. I use the other flat side to check the tips.

I've even started using a blade to scrape all the sanding dust off the tips. Tommy D.
Click to expand...

I wondered if I had made the tip convex or concave at first, even though I am careful.. I use the flat portion of my vice and was extra diligent every time, so I ruled that out.

I was wiping the tip of with a paper towel thoroughly... I suppose I could use some air..
 
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