Titleist

for what its worth, I was looking back thru some news articles and noticed that Greenleaf sued in 47', because he was barred from a tourney in 46'...

one might think that if Brunswick produced these greenleaf stamped cues, it probably would have been prior to the end of 46'...

with the Titlist line being launched in 42', perhaps the RG cues were produced between 42' and 46'
 
MoonshineMattK said:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=29283&highlight=Greenleaf

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=70232&highlight=Greenleaf

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=38921&highlight=greenleaf

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=228429&highlight=Greenleaf

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=33486
Click to expand...

This picture tells me something (first cue on the left):

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=33486

I'm thinking not full splice (notice how all the Titlist veneers come together at the top of the wrap, this one isn't close) also how the grain in the butt is straight, but in the prong shown it's angled. From the look, I'm thinking plastic joint (could be ivory but it's pretty white, and if it were really old, ivory would be all cracked and yellow by now). I suppose the cue could have been redone, but I wonder if we're not off by a couple of decades here. Also, compare the inner maple veneer thickness to the Brunswick's - the Geenleaf is visibly thinner.
 
Last edited:
TATE said:
This picture tells me something (first cue on the left):

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=33486

I'm thinking not full splice (notice how all the Titlist veneers come together at the top of the wrap, this one isn't close) also how the grain in the butt is straight, but in the prong shown it's angled. From the look, I'm thinking plastic joint (could be ivory but it's pretty white, and if it were really old, ivory would be all cracked and yellow by now). I suppose the cue could have been redone, but I wonder if we're not off by a couple of decades here. Also, compare the inner maple veneer thickness to the Brunswick's - the Geenleaf is visibly thinner.
Click to expand...



In this thread the owner states he had that cue converted.
Post #4
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=29283&highlight=Greenleaf
I'm guessing the buttcap was added.
 
Last edited:
TATE said:
This picture tells me something (first cue on the left):

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=33486

I'm thinking not full splice (notice how all the Titlist veneers come together at the top of the wrap, this one isn't close) also how the grain in the butt is straight, but in the prong shown it's angled. From the look, I'm thinking plastic joint (could be ivory but it's pretty white, and if it were really old, ivory would be all cracked and yellow by now). I suppose the cue could have been redone, but I wonder if we're not off by a couple of decades here. Also, compare the inner maple veneer thickness to the Brunswick's - the Geenleaf is visibly thinner.
Click to expand...


i have a few of these .... theyre full splice and apeer to be brunswick .....

same but plate and collars and joint work ... only noticable diff is the flat screw.
 
Mr Hoppe said:
There is no doubt in my mind that these are not custom pieces. The production may have been limited, maybe even very limited, but I believe these are production cues none the less. I have a few Rambow's, and it would be interesting to compare the actual tapers, but I have little doubt that Rambow did not produce these RG cues by himself in his shop. I agree with your comments about the pre-fab stamped signature.
Click to expand...

Hey Hoppe, can you clear your PM box
 
MoonshineMattK said:
In this thread the owner states he had that cue converted.
Post #4
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=29283&highlight=Greenleaf
I'm guessing the buttcap was added.
Click to expand...


merylane said:
i have a few of these .... theyre full splice and apeer to be brunswick .....

same but plate and collars and joint work ... only noticable diff is the flat screw.
Click to expand...


OK, and much thanks to both of you for pointing out these important points.

Isn't it odd nobody seems to remember this line of cues?

I even checked with Peter Balner and he only has vague recollections of a Greenleaf Brunswick.

Here's some speculation. Maybe Brunswick was going to run this line but with Greenleaf's PR issues choose Hoppe instead and scrapped it. (As far as the cues pre-dating the Hoppe, unlikely - before the Hoppe, Brunswick was stil putting the joint screw in the shaft). They might have appeared at the same time as the Hoppe. Then Brunswick decided to go with Willie instead and scrapped the Greenleaf.

This would pretty much explain everything: The old style joint screw (from 1930's parts), the screw in the handle, the full splice based on a 26 1/2, the wood burned signature. Perhaps they had produced a couple of hundred, decided to go another direction, did not put a decal and weight stamp on them but sold them to some dealers.
 
Last edited:
TATE said:
Here's some speculation. Maybe Brunswick was going to run this line but with Greenleaf's PR issues choose Hoppe instead and scrapped it.

They might have appeared at the same time as the Hoppe. Then Brunswick decided to go with Willie instead and scrapped the Greenleaf.

Perhaps they had produced a couple of hundred, decided to go another direction, did not put a decal and weight stamp on them but sold them to some dealers.
Click to expand...

Chris, I appreciate your ideas on the topic. I was just thinking that if Brunswick was trying to decide between RG and Hoppe, made both, then decided to go forward with Hoppe, wouldn't it be likely that the cue would be the same, but the name on the label and signature on the forearm would be different? I mean why go through the trouble of creating a whole different cue for each man knowing that one would be scrapped? I know we're just tossing out possibilities here, but that one doesn't seem likely to me based upon the effort that would be wasted.

I wish I could remember the Mexican name on that other cue I mentioned. If I recall correctly, and it's likely that I don't, I was thinking that cue was identical to the RG, with the exception of the Mexican champion's name. If that were the case, one might think that Brunswick was starting a series of cues dedicated to certain players of the time. Again, this is conjecture on my part.
 
titlist

This has been interesting reading and a very informative thread. Lets bump it back upstairs for more comments.
 
Cuebuddy said:
Cuebuddy said:
Ok its later:D

First of all I hate this joint and I must not been the only one because I have only seen a few. There is no metal female thread, it just threads into the wood.
Click to expand...

What is this cue worth?

attachment.php


attachment.php
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Screwed up?

Hi,

As best I can tell the problem with this cue is that the pin has become stuck and we are seeing the threads that should be permanently attached to the wood in the shaft. The actual pin comes out of the shaft and is screwed into the butt. Put a rubber gripper onto the threads and unscrew it and see what you get.

Purchased a Hoppe with this problem once. Owner thought it was a special variant. Quick fix.

Also, did anyone see the Greenleaf for sale on ebay last year with the "Made in Japan" label?

Apologize if anyone else posted these two things.

Take care,
nick
 
Mr Hoppe said:
37D86FFB-5565-4039-ACCD-162C9644B454.png
188F449F-35ED-4D69-8BA2-FEF71F3417A3.png
No weight stamp or branding of any kind other than the words "Ralph Greenleaf" stamped once above and between the points. The veneer colors are black (or very dark blue), red, mahogany, and maple, and the bumper is white and held in place with a flat screw (not philips.) The pin is in the butt, and is significantly flattened at the tip, extending up beyond the brass joint collar only about .125". The last inch of mine is different than the one you linked to on the 3cushion site. Mine has about 3/4" white "ring" between two black rings, and then has the white bumper that I mentioned above.

I remember seeing a cue very similar to this with the name of a Mexican champion stamped on it rather than RG. I don't remember the name (possibly Chavez?) and don't remember exactly how similar the cues were.
Click to expand...
Lol decade later and searching old cue history I came on your question and figured better late than never to give a possible answer.

Maybe this is the one you were thinking of


Especial Joe Chamaco Cue

Joe was a famous
Mexican 3-Cushion Player. Won the 1939 world 3cushion championships.

Don’t think I ever seen one with a Mexican player from Brunswick that had points.
 
Last edited:
Mr. Bond said:
Thinkin outloud here...

I can't really argue with what Craig said about the (greenleaf cue's) construction fitting into the 50s -70s timeframe... but... if that's true, it also means that the cues fall into the Keefe & Hamer timeframe...which means that other than producing the blank, Brunswick didn't have squat to do with Greenleaf's name appearing on those cues.

Greenleaf was a broke, dead, 'nobody' by the end of 1950 anyway - IMO Brunswick would never have been interested in producing a Greenleaf cue with their new golden boy Willie Mosconi already on the scene.

So, if the cues are authentic, it would seem that someone asked Rambow and/or Kimmel to produce a Greenleaf named cue, post-mortem, between 1950 and 1967...

If Rambow was not involved, Kimmel could have burned the name many years after 1967, he didnt die until 1990.
Click to expand...

Although the above post is almost a decade old (and RIP Mr. Bond), I thought I would post to help close out this question. I agree with Mr. Bond that Brunswick would not have made Greenleaf-branded cues after 1937. It was that year that Ralph returned from the abyss to win the world championship and found (with Bennie Allen) an independent billiards organization to promote and host world championships without Brunswick's oversight. Brunswick formed the Billiard Association of America in response, and in 1941, paid Hoppe to be its titular head. The Titlist branding was probably part of this deal.
 
kling&allen said:
Although the above post is almost a decade old (and RIP Mr. Bond), I thought I would post to help close out this question. I agree with Mr. Bond that Brunswick would not have made Greenleaf-branded cues after 1937. It was that year that Ralph returned from the abyss to win the world championship and found (with Bennie Allen) an independent billiards organization to promote and host world championships without Brunswick's oversight. Brunswick formed the Billiard Association of America in response, and in 1941, paid Hoppe to be its titular head. The Titlist branding was probably part of this deal.
Click to expand...
Charles
Peterson was the director of the BAA, he was paid 500$ a month. The BAA banned Greenleaf from the WC’s more than once and Ralph sued the saying Brunswick had him banned for giving exhibitions on equipment that wasn’t theirs….and he won.
 
kling&allen said:
Although the above post is almost a decade old (and RIP Mr. Bond), I thought I would post to help close out this question. I agree with Mr. Bond that Brunswick would not have made Greenleaf-branded cues after 1937. It was that year that Ralph returned from the abyss to win the world championship and found (with Bennie Allen) an independent billiards organization to promote and host world championships without Brunswick's oversight. Brunswick formed the Billiard Association of America in response, and in 1941, paid Hoppe to be its titular head. The Titlist branding was probably part of this deal.
Click to expand...

Except they definitely sold Greenleaf cues in the 60s/70s, so...
 
ideologist said:
Except they definitely sold Greenleaf cues in the 60s/70s, so...
Click to expand...

Agreed, I think the old question above was how far back they went. Mr. Bond didn't think before 1950, which makes sense. My post should have been more clear that "after 37" meant during Ralph's life. And I should have correctly spelled Titleist!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top