Titlist Hit - why so good

M

maxeypad2007

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why on earth do titlist conversions play so good....

This is probably a dumb question, but is the shaft wood also harvested from the titlist one piece as well usually?
 
A guess

When I first started playing pool almost all two-piece cues used true splices on the butts. That is, the points went all the way through to the center of the butt and were not just inlays. A cuemaker I knew back then said that the true splice gave a better 'feel' because the full splice allowed the wood to act as a shock absorber that is missing in the inlay cues.

I am not a cuemaker nor a physics whiz so I have no idea if this comment has any validity or not. I do believe that if cues were still made the way they were made back then that no one could afford them.

Would love to hear more opinions on this, or facts if there are any. I do think that the cues made today give the best overall 'hit' of any that have ever been made. The joints are better, the glues are far better, and the balance is better. I can remember visiting cuemakers in the 60's and 70's and watching them use Dremels and dental tools to do decorative ivory 'buttons', 'spears' and 'diamonds' on the cues. The CNC lathe was a real breakthrough.
 
This is a good question. Maybe it has something to do with the age and seasoning of the butt wood. I have a titlist conversion done by Tim Scruggs and it hits em fantastic. I use to collect cues and I was selling them off, but this one cue I cannot part with because it hits em so damn good. I have set it aside for a potential playing cue if either one of my young sons decide to play pool.
 
The secret isn't in the Titlist...its in the fullsplice. This why many are shocked to see that a sneaky from your favorite maker often "hits" better than his higher end cues. I can play with ANYTHING I want, yet my personal playing cue is one of my raced up sneaky's...4pt rosewood into straight grain maple.;)
 
maxeypad2007 said:
Why on earth do titlist conversions play so good....

This is probably a dumb question, but is the shaft wood also harvested from the titlist one piece as well usually?
Click to expand...

On the modern conversions, the shaft is made from separate wood. I have some old Palmers where you can see the grain continue into the shaft, so some were made using the full cue.

The one piece Titlists have a solid hit even better than the conversions if you find one in good shape that was ligthly used. If you're ever in the Los Angeles area, give me a buzz and I'll let you play with some original one piece Model 26 1/2's from the 1920's which the Titlist was derived from. The particular cues I have are perfectly straight, have full diameter shafts, and are sweet to play with. The wood's been air dried slowly for over 80 years.

The full splice cues are structurally stiffer than even a cue made even with one solid piece of wood. That could have some bearing on it too.

Chris
 
full splice

i am doing a few brunswick full splice conversions at this time. i love the way the old wood feels and the golden honey color of the maple. i always try to use the shaft of the one piece cue so the forearm and shaft have the same color. not always possiable because many of these cues are very crooked. the good part is most of them were quite large in diameter, so they can be retapered. i just put one on ebay. keep your head down. chuck starkey
 
Varney Cues said:
The secret isn't in the Titlist...its in the fullsplice. This why many are shocked to see that a sneaky from your favorite maker often "hits" better than his higher end cues. I can play with ANYTHING I want, yet my personal playing cue is one of my raced up sneaky's...4pt rosewood into straight grain maple.;)
Click to expand...
Some people thought that straight grained maple made the best forearms. I think that most Balabushkas are made with a straight grained forearm. Black Boar also uses a straight grained maple core in the middle of their figured maple forearms. That could also contribute to the better feel.
 
Varney Cues said:
The secret isn't in the Titlist...its in the fullsplice. This why many are shocked to see that a sneaky from your favorite maker often "hits" better than his higher end cues
Click to expand...

Does this mean that fullsplice has better playability than a solid (1pc) butt?
 
sygfrid said:
Does this mean that fullsplice has better playability than a solid (1pc) butt?
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IMHO...yes. I've not made any 1pc butts, but each one I've tested had a very odd feel. I am not a fan of 1pc butts, although I'm sure many will disagree.
 
wood + harmonics

IMO, yes, it's the old, seasoned wood and also the fact that the hit vibration can freely travel back through the full splice butt uninterrupted vs. say a modern A-joint where the prong is fused to the handle with a pin. Harmonics has a ton to do with the "hit" of a cue, and with full splice construction you are better able to feel what's going in the butt of the cue up through your grip hand.
 
Varney Cues said:
The secret isn't in the Titlist...its in the fullsplice. This why many are shocked to see that a sneaky from your favorite maker often "hits" better than his higher end cues. I can play with ANYTHING I want, yet my personal playing cue is one of my raced up sneaky's...4pt rosewood into straight grain maple.;)
Click to expand...

lol - Any op for advertising.

You are right in that the secret isn't in the Titlist. It is in what the cue-maker DOES with the blank. Most cue-makers will tell you that they can make a much better playing cue from a Titlist if they DO NOT leave it full-splice - that way, it is much easier to balance correctly, get the right weight, etc.
 
Speaking of Titlists, I was at Jack Madden's house on wednesday and had a chance to shoot with an old Rambow, the hit is unlike anything else. It's like shaking hands with an angel
 
JoeyInCali said:
they can make a much better playing cue from a Titlist if they DO NOT leave it full-splice
:eek: :eek: :eek:
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I guess I should say 'usually'. Joey only gives us hints of his thoughts :)

I would think that if you could find an absolutely perfect-playing 1-piece spliced bar-cue, and add a joint/pin that didn't change the weight or balance, that it would be the best 2-piece cue FOR YOU on the planet (not cutting it would be better). As Chris said, some of the old Titlist 1-piece cues play incredible - I had some like that as well - but that is true of today's bar-cues also, if you find the right one for you.

Indeed, someone we both know aims to make his 2-pieces hit like the best 1-piece, and succeeds. I've had one of his full-splice sneaky's, a plain jane, and now a Titlist (not full-splice), and they all hit,feel,play almost identical. It's the cue-maker's skills that makes this possible.
 
Huh?

cueaddicts:
Harmonics has a ton to do with the "hit" of a cue, and with full splice construction you are better able to feel what's going in the butt of the cue up through your grip hand.

JoeyInCali:
Mixing woods make for better reasonance imo.
Click to expand...

I've heard "harmonics" and "resonance" mentioned a lot, but I've never heard anybody say what they are or what kind are good or really much of anything about them except that some cues have good ones (even though none seem to have bad ones).

Can these things be described or are they somebody's intellectual property?

pj
chgo
 
I LOVE the feel of these old brunswicks, and I am in the process of converting about 25 of them right now :D :D :D
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I've heard "harmonics" and "resonance" mentioned a lot, but I've never heard anybody say what they are or what kind are good or really much of anything about them except that some cues have good ones (even though none seem to have bad ones).

Can these things be described or are they somebody's intellectual property?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Here are my thoughts from a non cue maker, simply thinking through your question.

First of all, a cue that resonates is a solid well built instrument. Without these factors it's simply a stick with a tip and will not resonate very long.

Wood combinations in and of themselves will not give you a product that resonates. Good geometry must play a role as well. In other words a cue must be tapered in a certain way to resonate. There also may be woods that no matter what you do (without adding other features) will not resonate.

Cue makers use woods that are popular because of their beauty and therefore May need to add other woods to achieve resonance. The combination of woods plus geometry achieves a product that resonates when built with care.

What frequency should a cue resonate at? I don't know and have never heard. The only thing I've read in this regard is the Length of Time the cue should vibrate. The longer the time the better the build.

I don't believe that a resonating cue at say C minor plays better than C major. (I'm not a musician but hope you get the point) It's simply the fact that resonance occurs for a minimum length of time, indicating a solid construction. Remember 99.999% of all personal cues have a joint. The joint is a potential break in the sine wave. No wonder joint design is so critical, so that the sound/vibration can pass through the joint Uninhibited.

The bottom line is, If the cue don't resonate for a while?, it's junk, and I don't think that a certain Tone determines the quality or playability. The cue simply must resonate no matter what.

Suppose the cue makers will have a hay day on this. Bring it on guys. Love to learn your thoughts. It's simply off the cuff and have never made a wood chip
 
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