Tony Chohan vs Dennis Orcullo

Island Drive said:
Tighter pockets than D.O. had with Frost. Humm, ''if'' Cohan is the better ''mover'' and has a better cue ball, the pocket size could be the key.

I remember when the IPT was starting to play out, and the talk of a couple non pro 8 ball players than play patterns better than the pros.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't tighter pockets favor the better shooter? I haven't watched Chohan play, but I have a hard time believing he shoots straighter than Dennis because I don't think I've ever seen a straighter shooter than Dennis. His ball pocketing abilities are top notch.
 
Last edited:
The only thing IMO that Tony has an advantage over Dennis on, is the same thing that Scott did -- he has an advantage with more knowledge on executing the multi-rail banks. He will make more of those than Dennis, but that's about it and it won't likely be enough to give him the win.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
The only thing IMO that Tony has an advantage over Dennis on, is the same thing that Scott did -- he has an advantage with more knowledge on executing the multi-rail banks. He will make more of those than Dennis, but that's about it and it won't likely be enough to give him the win.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's gonna be about as advantageous as having a 5th headlight on your car.
 
The better shooter almost always wins. Tony has no chance, as Scott had no chance. There is not a single person betting on Tony in the action room with even up odds. Even giving odds, only a few small bets went down thus far.

I think Tony's side will pull up and not bet this match.

Now, to everyone saying Tony has more 1 hole knowledge, (or Frost, or any other one pocket specialist), here is a question to ponder:

Exactly how long does it take to acquire said one pocket knowledge? How long did it take Efren. From the accounts I have in Philly, he came there in the 80's, got a ball initially, and a month later, was giving one ball to all the Philly pro's.

Dennis has been playing the game for years (1 pocket). How long will it take him to equal the knowledge of Frost or Chohan? 1 month? 1 year? 10 years? How long did it take Alex, Busty, Efren, to master bank pool? Maybe only Brumback would gamble with either of that group even up. Hell, Efren plays jam up in straight pool even, and he plays it once a decade. Its just a stick and balls, like any other game. You guys give way too much credit to the discipline.

Another thing, when a player like Frost or Chochan play one pocket all their youth "as they are coming up", they are playing weaker players even. Lets say when they are 15 and B speed. Then 17 and A speed. Then 19 and Pro speed. In contrast, because Efren, Dennis, Alex, Busty, etc. were ALREADY pro speed when they hit their first one pocket shot, they might actually learn the moves better than the other guys. AND, because their first shot of one hole was probably against a very experienced pro one pocket player, they effectively had to swim or sink against the best in the world. They didn't cut their teeth playing B players at age 15. They cut their teeth playing Fusco and Hopkins and Frost and Daulton.
 
iusedtoberich said:
The better shooter almost always wins. Tony has no chance, as Scott had no chance. There is not a single person betting on Tony in the action room with even up odds. Even giving odds, only a few small bets went down thus far.

I think Tony's side will pull up and not bet this match.

Now, to everyone saying Tony has more 1 hole knowledge, (or Frost, or any other one pocket specialist), here is a question to ponder:

Exactly how long does it take to acquire said one pocket knowledge? How long did it take Efren. From the accounts I have in Philly, he came there in the 80's, got a ball initially, and a month later, was giving one ball to all the Philly pro's.

Dennis has been playing the game for years (1 pocket). How long will it take him to equal the knowledge of Frost or Chohan? 1 month? 1 year? 10 years? How long did it take Alex, Busty, Efren, to master bank pool? Maybe only Brumback would gamble with either of that group even up. Hell, Efren plays jam up in straight pool even, and he plays it once a decade. Its just a stick and balls, like any other game. You guys give way too much credit to the discipline.

Another thing, when a player like Frost or Chochan play one pocket all their youth "as they are coming up", they are playing weaker players even. Lets say when they are 15 and B speed. Then 17 and A speed. Then 19 and Pro speed. In contrast, because Efren, Dennis, Alex, Busty, etc. were ALREADY pro speed when they hit their first one pocket shot, they might actually learn the moves better than the other guys. AND, because their first shot of one hole was probably against a very experienced pro one pocket player, they effectively had to swim or sink against the best in the world. They didn't cut their teeth playing B players at age 15. They cut their teeth playing Fusco and Hopkins and Frost and Daulton.
Click to expand...


Pretty good analysis and I agree with much of what you're saying. But... all other things being equal, depth of knowledge cannot be underestimated. The problem is that all other things are usually not equal. Better ball striking and CB control are usually in play and significant factors, particularly at the level of the match in question.

Sometimes we do tend to overestimate the whole 1pocket knowledge thing, but depending on where you're at on the food chain, it can still be a huge advantage if the knowledge gap is wide enough. I know this from personal experience beating guys who would eat my lunch at 9ball or 10ball but don't play much 1pocket.

But at the super high level the gap in knowledge is usually pretty small and the advantage certainly has to go to the player who strikes and controls whitey better.

Lou Figueroa
 
Dennis is compensating for less knowledge by playing much slower and really thinking things out on every shot. Some would say that this should wear down Dennis, but it appears that he can keep thinking and grinding without it affecting his shotmaking, etc.

Scott and Tony are able to see the best shot much faster, which would generally be a mental advantage, because of what I indicated above. They theoretically shouldn't get as mentally worn out. But Dennis is a machine it appears -- thus his nickname.
 
Once again, there is no question in my mind that this match will be closer than the Scott match. Tony is playing on a "home court" and is a stronger player overall than Scott imo. He has already played Dennis for money in the last year and half and won one and lost one. I think he gave Dennis 9-8 the first time out and played even the second time. I actually like this match better than the Scott match. These two players have an interesting contrast in styles. Tony can also run-out when given the opportunity. People on here are not giving him the credit he deserves as a top player. I won't be betting so big on Dennis this time, maybe just a sweat bet or two. :)
 
Last edited:
Here is another viewpoint of a top 10 pro like Dennis vs a top 100 pro like Scott or Tony (in shooting).

Lets say they play 9 ball, of course Dennis would win by a large margin, even if they played alternate break. It will come down to misses. Dennis might miss one shot in 4 games. Scott or Tony might miss 1 shot in 2 games. (Just an example, but probably close to reality). Over the course of a set, those extra misses, might account for a 2:1 difference in score count.

Now, translate that into one pocket. The miss disparity should be similar in one pocket as it is in 9 ball. I'm talking about open table misses where the player is on a run or to start a run. Scott missed several of those shots. IMO, he would have missed those same shots if he were playing 9 ball. When a shot like that is missed playing 1 pocket, you are not playing safe at the same time. You are going for the 8 and out. That means all the balls are in play, and your opponent now has the 8 and out oppertunity.

Contrast that to not playing the best "move". If Dennis plays a questionable move, and Scott/Tony play the "better" move, that move won't usually result in an immediate loss of game. It may only result in a couple of balls, before Dennis plays his way out of it.

So the penalty for missing is worth many, many, many, more balls than an error for not playing the best move.

IMO:)
 
jay helfert said:
And this is how rumors get started. Both players had backers, that much is correct. Both SIDES received some income from the stream sponsors and whatever the players could raise on their own from patch sponsors etc. Scott probably did better in this respect than Dennis, who already has a deal with Tiger. The amounts were relatively small (a few thousand at best), nothing like what's stated here.

In the end, Dennis did quite well, getting a healthy slice of the pie. He does not depend on upfront money as much (that's a small bonus), preferring instead to focus on booking winners. That's where the real money is, especially in a match like this. :)
Click to expand...
Glad to hear that the Backers took good care of Dennis financially for his win!!!

Those Virginia boys are known for taking care of their own! Not known for circus wages paying guys peanuts!

Dennis must be thrilled to have the Backers he does. He certainly played relaxed and confident.

Having a good corner team is more essential to the player and out come than people give it credit for.

Given the current economic climate of being up 100k and risking only half of what they won! Their is less pressure and stress on Dennis than t-rex.

I have it at Dennis wins by 7.5 games! You think 5 and frost lost by 11! I split the difference!

Hardly any one is booking action and everyone like Dennis after the show and clinic he put on.

Kd

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
jay helfert said:
I actually like this match better than the Scott match.

I won't be betting so big on Dennis this time, maybe just a sweat bet or two. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, I will also be reluctantly and fearfully betting on Dennis myself if anybody is interested. :wink:
 
Get_A_Grip said:
Dennis is compensating for less knowledge by playing much slower and really thinking things out on every shot. Some would say that this should wear down Dennis, but it appears that he can keep thinking and grinding without it affecting his shotmaking, etc.

Scott and Tony are able to see the best shot much faster, which would generally be a mental advantage, because of what I indicated above. They theoretically shouldn't get as mentally worn out. But Dennis is a machine it appears -- thus his nickname.
Click to expand...

If that is the case (which I agree it did seem to play a role- Dennis took a long time on some shots)- perhaps his opponent should ask for an unusual spot- a shot clock of perhaps 30 secs. to a 1 minute per shot
 
westcoast said:
If that is the case (which I agree it did seem to play a role- Dennis took a long time on some shots)- perhaps his opponent should ask for an unusual spot- a shot clock of perhaps 30 secs. to a 1 minute per shot
Click to expand...
IMO even with a 1 minute shot clock, Dennis would be at a disadvantage and I might then favor Tony under those conditions.
 
westcoast said:
If that is the case (which I agree it did seem to play a role- Dennis took a long time on some shots)- perhaps his opponent should ask for an unusual spot- a shot clock of perhaps 30 secs. to a 1 minute per shot
Click to expand...

That will be a no go. Dennis won't gamble for big bucks like that

when hes is playing for enough to buy a house in many locals, can you blame the man for wanting to think it through in his own manner?
 
Black-Balled said:
That will be a no go. Dennis won't gamble for big bucks like that

when hes is playing for enough to buy a house in many locals, can you blame the man for wanting to think it through in his own manner?
Click to expand...

I don't blame him at all. I'm just saying that it might even up these matches a bit
 
Get_A_Grip said:
IMO even with a 1 minute shot clock, Dennis would be at a disadvantage and I might then favor Tony under those conditions.
Click to expand...
DO is the favorite in any way you want to cut it ,, people think he does not know the game are clueless,, he's the Favorite in any format in a long race because pro's like DO adapt very quickly to any situation that's what makes them the players they are ,
I'd suggest TRex better think long and hard on every shot because he's severely out classed

1
 
one stroke said:
DO is the favorite in any way you want to cut it ,, people think he does not know the game are clueless,, he's the Favorite in any format in a long race because pro's like DO adapt very quickly to any situation that's what makes them the players they are ,

I'd suggest TRex better think long and hard on every shot because he's severely out classed



1
Click to expand...


Nobody said Dennis doesn't know the game. But by virtue of the other players having played many years longer, they can identify the BEST shot faster. That is a fact.


_______
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top