Toupee Jay!!

[freddy the beard]

No exaggeration.

WHAT THE HELL!?!??! Please tell me that's an exaggeration. Ugh that's horrible to think of....what the hell was the director thinking? Pool movie plus strange demented porn? WTF

There must have been others on this site that also seen that piece of drech.
The point the director was making, was that was how the player "bonded" with his cue stick. His girlfriends reply was,"Please dont make me do that, AGAIN." What was even more horrible, was film critic Roger Ebert gave the movie three stars! That'll give you some idea of what square johns think of pool hustlers.

the Beard

 

[jay helfert]

Chris and I played a few times and he was a good guy to play with. He was also IMO the only bright light in that stinking pool movie "Chalk." He had a great part where he described the feelings and emotions of being a top pool player. I thought his scene was better than when Paul Newman attempted the same thing in the original "Hustler." The rest of the movie was puce. The scene where the main player prepares for the big game by having his girlfriend shove the butt of the cue up his own butt was unbelieveably disgusting.

the Beard

You and him probably were pretty close playing Banks, but I have a funny feeling you out gambled him. Tell me how I handicapped that one, oh great one.

 

[jrhendy]

Chris traveled mostly with his girlfriend at the time Julie Jay. He was on the road for 14 years straight, living out of a camper. Thus he earned his nickname "The Roadman". I did send Chris to play in a couple of pro tournaments back in the 80's, and he snapped off one of them, beating Earl in the finals. Ask him about it. I think it was the Carolinas Cup or something like that. I believe it paid 4K, not a bad payday for both of us.

I met up with Chris and Julie in Fort Worth at the BCA Trade Show in 1984, the year Fats got inducted into the HOF. They were having an amateur tournament and there was a juicy bar table ring game for 20 a man. I staked Chris and he beat the game for four or five hundred, maybe more.

We then cruised over the Dallas and Rusty's, a big action spot at the time. We had been told about a pimp who liked to play One Pocket over there. Sure enough the guy was there practicing and within minutes Chris had him down for 100 a game. I remember Chris was hesitant to play that high, but I told him go ahead and get the money.

While he was playing, a big guy walks over to me and says "Play a little Tonk?" Duh, why not. We were winners close to a thou for the day behind Chris' pool shooting. And I learned Tonk from the best of them at Joe Burn's Forest Park Billiards in Dayton. We started out for 10 and 20 a game, not a bad bet by any means. We ended up playing for 50 and a 100, very serious money back then.

He had a wad as thick as a your fist and kept peeling off fifty's and hundreds. After I busted him, his partner took over. It took me all night but I got all their money. They even borrowed $100 (all in ones) from the bar to pay me the last bet. I found out later from Jack Cooney that these two guys owned the biggest Bingo parlors in town. When it was over the big guy asked me if I play One Pocket. That's one score I never made.

We drove back to Chris' camper that morning and dumped all the money on the little table inside that they ate on. It was one huge pile. I had no idea how much I had won. I lost track hours before. Julie and I unfolded all the bills (I had wadded them up inside my pockets) and counted them. $8,000 plus change later I knew we had done all right. And Chris won something like eight games playing One Hole.

We split up his winnings first. He had given me that money when he finished his game, long before I got done. Chris was thrilled with his share of the pool winnings (from both games). I tried to give him a piece of the big score, but he refused it. He said I won that on my own and would not take a dime. I did slip Julie a hundred when I was leaving. You can tell Chris now.

Chris was a very strong player, especially at One Pocket and Banks. Always a ball above me. I did try to play him a few times, but he was tough tough action. Just ask John Henderson on here. No one in N. Cal. wanted any part of Chris back then. Maybe Cole, that's about it. He is a great guy and a good friend.

Chris was one of the guys I liked to play, but never could beat. He would play for whatever I wanted (go figure), and it might take him awhile, but he always got me. The best I ever did against him was in 96 at Edgie's billiards in Mountain View. I was working with Cue Sports Journal, the bay area pool mag, and playing almost every day. I was playing the best one pocket of my life at that time. Chris was the house pro at a room in Santa Rosa. I wrote an article in Cue Sports Journal rating the 9 ball players in the bay area. Then I wrote something about one pocket - "If you think you can beat me playing one pocket, come on down to Edgie's and make some money". No one responded, so in the next months article I wrote " None of you hitched up your skirts and came down to play, so I declare myself the best one pocket player in the Bay Area". I had two phone calls in the next couple of days. Chris called first, and he came down & we played $150 a game for about 11 hours. I played some of the best one pocket of my life on my home court and broke even. He still plays well and I run into him at the Hard Times Tournaments in Sacramento and still don't win. John Henderson

 

[freddy the beard]

Chris play me banks? You kidding?

You and him probably were pretty close playing Banks, but I have a funny feeling you out gambled him. Tell me how I handicapped that one, oh great one.

Chris wouldnt play me banks with a knife at his throat. I manhandled all the California boys playing banks. I beat Marvin Henderson in Chicago, and I beat Denny Searcy in Detroit. I spotted Ronnie in Mothers.etc., etc. You were in with Keith when I pounded him. The toughest CA boy playing banks was IMO, Cecil the Serpent Tugwell. Chris beat me in my own joint playing 1pkt. 50 a game. He was near unbeatable at that price, as you probably know, Jay.
We rematched in Burlington, IA for $200 a game and I beat him 8 in a row and broke him. His wife berated him for gettin tricked into betting that high.
He thought he was stealing.

the Beard

 

[Russ Chewning]

Chris wouldnt play me banks with a knife at his throat.

the Beard

Ha ha Freddy, tell us how you REALLY feel!

Russ

 

[jrhendy]

Chris wouldnt play me banks with a knife at his throat. I manhandled all the California boys playing banks. I beat Marvin Henderson in Chicago, and I beat Denny Searcy in Detroit. I spotted Ronnie in Mothers.etc., etc. You were in with Keith when I pounded him. The toughest CA boy playing banks was IMO, Cecil the Serpent Tugwell. Chris beat me in my own joint playing 1pkt. 50 a game. He was near unbeatable at that price, as you probably know, Jay.
We rematched in Burlington, IA for $200 a game and I beat him 8 in a row and broke him. His wife berated him for gettin tricked into betting that high.
He thought he was stealing.

the Beard

I was around when you were in California and seem to remember you booking more than one loser, but that is a long time ago and my memory might be fuzzy. I haven't heard you mention one of the guys I heard was a top bank pool player from Chicago, John Zaksas. Any stories about him? John Henderson

 

[JoeyA]

Where did you get that photo? That's from when I could play a little.

And I see back then you were sporting a Buddy Hall type grip (all hand not just fingers) and a little more hair than you sport now.
JoeyA

P.S. Your stories ARE GREAT.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Chris McDonald

He still plays well and I run into him at the Hard Times Tournaments in Sacramento and still don't win. John Henderson

John, you knew that Chris and I hung out some when I lived in Calif. But I never told you how he and I met. I was playing in one of Jay's bar table championships in Reno at the old Hilton. It must have been 1997. Anyway during the event I was waiting for a match, so I walked over to watch Chris play Ronnie Allen. Chris won the match, despite the fact that he was wearing a back brace, and moving a little gingerly. I asked him what the problem with his back was, and he said he bent over wrong that morning and threw his back out. I told him I was a chiropractor, and that I might be able to help him if he wanted. He eagerly agreed, so my wife and I went up to his room, and I was able to relieve his back pain. He was very grateful. I didn't even charge him.

So we're riding down in the elevator afterwards, and I asked him who he was playing next. He says, "Some guy named Art Tripp." I said, "That's me, you hornyak!" (Everyone knew me only as "Doc"). Would you believe it? Long story short, he kicks my butt, something like 11-5. I told him next time I treat him the fee would be $500. Anyway, we became friends after that. He and Barbara stayed up at my place in Eureka when they'd come in for the annual straight pool tournament.

BTW, I was an avid reader of your excellent publication "Cue Sports Journal", and I remember that 1P challenge you issued. I never knew that Chris took you up on it.

Doc

 

[bud green]

Thanks for the responses about Chris.

He's a good guy...I'm definately going to have to needle him a bit about that "knife to the throat" part, though.

From what he told me, he could give you a pretty good game at one pocket sometimes, Freddie. You must of been a hell of a banker for him to avoid matching up with you- he still bounces 'em in the hole pretty good sometimes.

Chris is on an interesting bank pool match against Cliff Joyner that Accu-Stats filmed. Rempe and I think Varner were doing the commentary and Chris made a nice comeback and made a shot or two those two legends didn't even think would go.

He also was good friends with and still plays with a cue made by Sherm who posts here sometimes.

Thanks again, Freddie and Jay. Your stories are about the best thing on here- a hell of a lot better than hearing anything more about Trudeau and that whole depressing mess...

 

[jay helfert]

Chris wouldnt play me banks with a knife at his throat. I manhandled all the California boys playing banks. I beat Marvin Henderson in Chicago, and I beat Denny Searcy in Detroit. I spotted Ronnie in Mothers.etc., etc. You were in with Keith when I pounded him. The toughest CA boy playing banks was IMO, Cecil the Serpent Tugwell. Chris beat me in my own joint playing 1pkt. 50 a game. He was near unbeatable at that price, as you probably know, Jay.
We rematched in Burlington, IA for $200 a game and I beat him 8 in a row and broke him. His wife berated him for gettin tricked into betting that high.
He thought he was stealing.

the Beard

Nice talking to you oh bearded one. Possessor of the longest nickname in pool history: "Freddie The Beard, Without The Beard".

 

[jrhendy]

John, you knew that Chris and I hung out some when I lived in Calif. But I never told you how he and I met. I was playing in one of Jay's bar table championships in Reno at the old Hilton. It must have been 1997. Anyway during the event I was waiting for a match, so I walked over to watch Chris play Ronnie Allen. Chris won the match, despite the fact that he was wearing a back brace, and moving a little gingerly. I asked him what the problem with his back was, and he said he bent over wrong that morning and threw his back out. I told him I was a chiropractor, and that I might be able to help him if he wanted. He eagerly agreed, so my wife and I went up to his room, and I was able to relieve his back pain. He was very grateful. I didn't even charge him.

So we're riding down in the elevator afterwards, and I asked him who he was playing next. He says, "Some guy named Art Tripp." I said, "That's me, you hornyak!" (Everyone knew me only as "Doc"). Would you believe it? Long story short, he kicks my butt, something like 11-5. I told him next time I treat him the fee would be $500. Anyway, we became friends after that. He and Barbara stayed up at my place in Eureka when they'd come in for the annual straight pool tournament.

BTW, I was an avid reader of your excellent publication "Cue Sports Journal", and I remember that 1P challenge you issued. I never knew that Chris took you up on it.

Doc

The other guy who took me up on it was Billy Aguero. I beat him playing one pocket, but then he offered me the eight playing 9 ball and I went off. I really enjoyed working with the publication and wish we would have made enough money at it to keep it going, but it was a lot of work for very little money and we finally had to give it up. John Henderson

 

[freddy the beard]

Only one loser? Me?

I was around when you were in California and seem to remember you booking more than one loser, but that is a long time ago and my memory might be fuzzy. I haven't heard you mention one of the guys I heard was a top bank pool player from Chicago, John Zaksas. Any stories about him? John Henderson

One loser? I booked a jillion losers. But thats because I barred nobody, and played all day, every day, and everywhere. I did my share of "jelly" in those days, so playing 12 to 14 hours a day was the norm. You think a daily diet of Jimmy Reid, Jimmy Marino, Cecil Tugwell, Ronnie Allen, Black Nate, Black Iceman, Crying Sam Crotcher and an assortment of the Mexican monsters at Daisy Mae's is going to produce all winners? Jay can back me up on this because he took me to a lot of the spots. He usually, prudently, didnt want any of my action because I so seldom played suckers and was only looking to gunfight. Looking back, he was probably secretly in with them. Ha ha. You can confess now, Jay.
Johnny Zaksas is still a top banker and I play in his joint periodically. However, good as he played, Johnny only played on the South Side, seldom traveled anywhere, and ducked me the whole time I was a top banker. In those days I used to brag that I was the best white banker in Chicago in an effort to rile up guys like John to come and try to knock me off. Best white banker was the best I could do, because the black bankers were, Bugs, Cannonball, Romberg, Youngblood, Johnny Boy Skinner, Tough Tony Brewer, Piggy Banks, and Howard the Coward Meechum, a murderous bank lineup.
Zaksas patience paid off, as he now plays me 10 to 8, $20 a game and I have no chance.

the Beard

 

[JAM]

...You were in with Keith when I pounded him....

When it comes to gambling, there are usually three sides to a story. In this instance, it is yours, Keith's, and the truth as it pertains to being "pounded."

As it was told to me, you approached Keith to play some AFTER you observed Keith gambling with others for 3 days in a row in which he had no sleep. It was this instance in which you enjoyed the alleged pounding.

Keith accepted your kind proposition, even though he had not slept for 3 days, and he suffered the consequences. Had Keith been fresh as a daisy and not been up for 3 days in a row gambling with others, I'm not so sure the outcome of the match you refer to would have been a pounding. That's Keith's story, as relayed to me, and I'm sticking with it.

JAM

 

[JoeyA]

When it comes to gambling, there are usually three sides to a story. In this instance, it is yours, Keith's, and the truth as it pertains to being "pounded."

As it was told to me, you approached Keith to play some AFTER you observed Keith gambling with others for 3 days in a row in which he had no sleep. It was this instance in which you enjoyed the alleged pounding.

Keith accepted your kind proposition, even though he had not slept for 3 days, and he suffered the consequences. Had Keith been fresh as a daisy and not been up for 3 days in a row gambling with others, I'm not so sure the outcome of the match you refer to would have been a pounding. That's Keith's story, as relayed to me, and I'm sticking with it.

JAM

Is Keith suggesting that another pool player would "lay-and-wait" for an opportune moment to bet it up with another pool player? 3 days is a rather long time to wait to pounce on someone.
JoeyA

 

[JAM]

Is Keith suggesting that another pool player would "lay-and-wait" for an opportune moment to bet it up with another pool player? 3 days is a rather long time to wait to pounce on someone.
JoeyA

As it turned out, those were the circumstances in the above-referenced alleged "pounding." It was a game of long-rack banks.

Not taking anything away from Freddy the Beard's bank game, a little birdie told me that Freddy the Beard plays all games well, and banks and one-pocket were his forte. It took a real good player to beat Freddy.

If it had been on my watch, the above-referenced match would never have occurred. If he had been with me, he would not have played until he got some rest. Back in those days, JoeyA, as you may or may not know, some players were combat fighters and sleep was looked at as an interference when it came to action.

JAM

 

[jrhendy]

As it turned out, those were the circumstances in the above-referenced alleged "pounding." It was a game of long-rack banks.

Not taking anything away from Freddy the Beard's bank game, a little birdie told me that Freddy the Beard plays all games well, and banks and one-pocket were his forte. It took a real good player to beat Freddy.

If it had been on my watch, the above-referenced match would never have occurred. If he had been with me, he would not have played until he got some rest. Back in those days, JoeyA, as you may or may not know, some players were combat fighters and sleep was looked at as an interference when it came to action.

JAM

As a long time Keith fan and occasional opponent over the years (always with weight), I can tell you he was unbeatable unless he was up at least two days, and of course people would lay in wait because that was just about the only way you had a chance of getting the money. Many times you couldn't win then either. I am not that familiar with Freddy's game, and gamesmanship (getting any kind of edge you can) is a big part of gambling at pool, and while all of us who gamble at pool are looking for it, I believe Freddy was very good at it and would be the first to admit it. Gamesmanship, another good topic for a new thread. John Henderson

 

[freddy the beard]

How many guys were looking to play him, period?

As it turned out, those were the circumstances in the above-referenced alleged "pounding." It was a game of long-rack banks.

Not taking anything away from Freddy the Beard's bank game, a little birdie told me that Freddy the Beard plays all games well, and banks and one-pocket were his forte. It took a real good player to beat Freddy.

If it had been on my watch, the above-referenced match would never have occurred. If he had been with me, he would not have played until he got some rest. Back in those days, JoeyA, as you may or may not know, some players were combat fighters and sleep was looked at as an interference when it came to action.

JAM

Jam, that wasnt the only time we played banks. Although I was certainly not above that type of gamesmanship, in that instance I really didnt know how long he had been up. 3 days? Wouldnt 2 have been enough? While I did once clock Jack Cooney until he had been up for 2 days playing in Detroit. I timed it so I had just woken up, and I ended up busting him for 3k. Incidentally, Barbara vainly tried to stop Jack from playing, but he was too far gone on the pills to listen to her. I doubt if you could have stopped Ether from playing either. Jay certainly couldnt.

the Beard

 

[hemicudas]

Up 3 days???

Keith was not in a class by himself in loving action so much that sleep was a mere secondary thought. As most of you older scuffs and players know, Louie Roberts, sat on the front row of that class with Keith. In 1980 I was in Freddy’s joint, Northshore Billiards, watching Louie give Bernie Schwartz the 7 and the last 3. I had money in with Bernie only because Louie was just starting his third day. Steve Oaks and I had made road trips together and never gambled with each other until he walked in and asked me what was going on. I told him Louie was giving Bernie the 7 and the last 3 and I was in with Bernie. Steve told me, in so many words, that I was an idiot. He asked if I had ever seen Louie in dead stroke. I told him I had but that Louie was on the third day and that’s the only reason I liked Bernie’s action. Steve asked if I wanted another $100 on the next set? Having a clear conscious about telling him how long Louie had been up, I said sure. Bernie wins that set and the next and Louie was off trying to borrow more money, with no success. Steve and I still talk when we see each other but that smile he use to have when he saw me is now missing.

 

[jay helfert]

One loser? I booked a jillion losers. But thats because I barred nobody, and played all day, every day, and everywhere. I did my share of "jelly" in those days, so playing 12 to 14 hours a day was the norm. You think a daily diet of Jimmy Reid, Jimmy Marino, Cecil Tugwell, Ronnie Allen, Black Nate, Black Iceman, Crying Sam Crotcher and an assortment of the Mexican monsters at Daisy Mae's is going to produce all winners? Jay can back me up on this because he took me to a lot of the spots. He usually, prudently, didnt want any of my action because I so seldom played suckers and was only looking to gunfight. Looking back, he was probably secretly in with them. Ha ha. You can confess now, Jay.
Johnny Zaksas is still a top banker and I play in his joint periodically. However, good as he played, Johnny only played on the South Side, seldom traveled anywhere, and ducked me the whole time I was a top banker. In those days I used to brag that I was the best white banker in Chicago in an effort to rile up guys like John to come and try to knock me off. Best white banker was the best I could do, because the black bankers were, Bugs, Cannonball, Romberg, Youngblood, Johnny Boy Skinner, Tough Tony Brewer, Piggy Banks, and Howard the Coward Meechum, a murderous bank lineup.
Zaksas patience paid off, as he now plays me 10 to 8, $20 a game and I have no chance.

the Beard

John, It's true. Freddie HAD to play, and he never turned down a game, even when I advised him against playing. I saw him play some of the best players in L.A. dead even, when he had little chance to win. But he put up a spirited fight and always got their admiration, if not the money.

NO Freddie, I was not in against you, EVER. I was pulling for you to pull off an upset! For you an upset was to break even with some of these assasins and sometimes you did. I think you forgot Black Rags. You banged heads with him at Tournament Billiards down on Washington Blvd. He was the best of the black champions in L.A. And what about "Rush Out Red"? He is one guy I think you beat playing Banks at Ye Billiard Den.

In the time I saw you play around Los Angeles, you batted about .300 for wins. You could beat most of the white guys around but you weren't ever satisfied with soft action. You went looking for the killers, they didn't have to come find you. Unlike me. If you noticed I never picked up a cue in most of the joints I took you to. I had more respect for my dough.

Nice talking to you again. And yes Big John, you're right about fearless Freddie on the left coast. He booked his share of losers. I saw many of them. Hell, he played Ronnie One Pocket in his prime and got maybe two balls, something like 9-7 at Big Mommas in the Valley. Am I right Freddie, when I told you, you needed four balls like 10-6. Maybe you played 9-7, 9-6. I can't remember, but it wasn't enough.

 

[jay helfert]

Jam, that wasnt the only time we played banks. Although I was certainly not above that type of gamesmanship, in that instance I really didnt know how long he had been up. 3 days? Wouldnt 2 have been enough? While I did once clock Jack Cooney until he had been up for 2 days playing in Detroit. I timed it so I had just woken up, and I ended up busting him for 3k. Incidentally, Barbara vainly tried to stop Jack from playing, but he was too far gone on the pills to listen to her. I doubt if you could have stopped Ether from playing either. Jay certainly couldnt.

the Beard

Not only couldn't I stop him, I was usually in with him. His famous line to me was, "Hey how much money have I made you?" "Now give me a thousand and let me play." And I did as I was told.