Trying to go Pro.

Why would you want to be a pro? Nothing like having to beat the best players in the world, every week, and hope you can clear $25-30k if you're lucky (after expenses). That's an awfully shitty grind, if you ask me. You're much better off practicing like hell just like the rest of us and getting a real job.
 
It takes years of playing at a high level to have the skill to always play well enough to be a real contender in a major tourney.

It takes years of playing big events to be comfortable enough in to play well enough to be a real contender in a major tourney.

as a recreational pursuit, dandy. as a source of income, weak.

Get your foundation back in order before you go chasing daisies.
 
For the record, I think Bamapool's account of playing pool for a living was pretty realistic...but it does get better...

He even forgot to convey the reality of going into places that won't bet a penny without the nutzz- guys that you might not beat even that want the 8/break to get up and don't change their minds- every night.
 
I think our OP wants to be able to play at the pro level. And what's wrong with that? Kind of thinking out loud, if you will.

The real world of attaining that is a whole 'nuther story, as many have pointed out. Doesn't mean it can't happen for Jay, just means it's unlikely. It's really up to him. Either way, so long as he doesn't lose his family in the process, he's bound to get better. And that is real cool. Maybe he'll surprise us all and be able to play with the big boys a little some day.

Jay, don't give up on your dream. I envy you. I didn't find this game till much later in life than you. Like many have said, don't lose focus on what's important, and best of luck to you.
 
Thank you all for the great advice. It has definitely given me a different perspective into what it is that I really want. I now realize that I want to achieve the Pro-level of play more so than the life style. Maybe that will hinder my progress in the long term. Don't get me wrong, I love the game as much as anyone, It's on my mind all the time. I will still keep pushing forward in my attempts to get better, plan on competing all year round as much as I can.There's no quit in me. I play with someone who has played with all the greats of past and present and even today in his mid 60's is good enough to play anyone....he tells me I can definitely do it if I keep the right mindset, he thinks that by 35 I can be there. He played all his life but also worked and ran a business for all of his adult life and was still able to play at Pro levels. It can be done, maybe he's the exception. one way or the other I intend to find out. Thank you all again and keep the advice coming. I need all the help I can get.
 
I was told years ago that there are really only 2 things that you need to be able to do in order to not only be a professional pool player, but also to be a great champion:

Number one: Never, ever, under any circumstances under-cut a ball.

Number two: Never, ever, under any circumstances over-cut a ball.

Simple enough.....

There is nothing to this silly game. ;-)
 
If you're capable of it, then you can do it...

jaybanthony said:
Thank you all for the great advice. It has definitely given me a different perspective into what it is that I really want. I now realize that I want to achieve the Pro-level of play more so than the life style. Maybe that will hinder my progress in the long term. Don't get me wrong, I love the game as much as anyone, It's on my mind all the time. I will still keep pushing forward in my attempts to get better, plan on competing all year round as much as I can.There's no quit in me. I play with someone who has played with all the greats of past and present and even today in his mid 60's is good enough to play anyone....he tells me I can definitely do it if I keep the right mindset, he thinks that by 35 I can be there. He played all his life but also worked and ran a business for all of his adult life and was still able to play at Pro levels. It can be done, maybe he's the exception. one way or the other I intend to find out. Thank you all again and keep the advice coming. I need all the help I can get.
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I"m not one of those people who thinks you had to be born with a silver cue in your mouth to get to the top. I do think there has to be some inate ability and talent there to get to that level though.

There's this guy I know, although we are not blood related most people think we are brothers. We call each other brother and we are close like brothers and we look like brothers.

We met in the Navy and back when PHJs came out we ended up going and seeing it. After the movie I asked him if he wanted to learn how to play really good. He answered with three words that would change his life forever...

"Sure, Why not?"

I had already been planning on going to the poolhall that night, so I said come on follow me to the pool hall and I"ll teach you how to play.

He might have picked up a cue three or fours times before that day. I wouldn't let him just play. I taught him the fundamentals and made him do drills.

Over the next six months, you couldn't pull him away from the table and I had him do progressive drills as he got better and more consistent.

I know APA rankings don't necessarily mean much, but he was a nine in APA nineball and a seven in APA eightball within like 8 months of starting to play. I don't play leagues, but some peopel enjoy them.

I can't know for sure, but I don't think he could've gotten as good as he did without innate talent for the game, whether it's superior hand/eye, geosptial relational ability etc... who knows. I also don't think he would've gotten as good as he did as quickly without having been taught proper mechanics from the get go.

He DEFINITELY, would not have gotten there without the absolute drive to get there. The first nine months that he played on a serious level he was playing 9-12 hours a day, five-seven days a week and everyone I know that is at that level has done the same thing...

He has gotten to the point where he's probably going to come onto the scene pretty strong and surprise a lot of people. But it's been almost seven years in the coming. He's had to work REALLY hard to overcome the mental demons that crop up for everyone. That's the really hard part.

Some people will never overcome them. If you have innate ability and you get the right instruction, you can play top level pool, but that doesn't mean that you can be a top level player.lol... we all have demons to overcome. Some can and some can't. IMO that's the biggest obstacle to becoming a top level player.

Jaden
 
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jaybanthony said:
Hey guys,


Thanks for all the feed back. I am 31 yrs of age. I've been playing seriously for a year and a half. I've worked my whole life though I've been out of work for a little over a year due to the bad economy(laid off). Truthfully until I can get back to work I can't really afford to put in more than 20 hrs a week. Pool is pretty expensive. I'm trying to make the most of the time I do get to play and when I'm home I try to read books and study video of the game. I know 31 is not 18 but my mind is more receptive now than it's ever been. I plan on continuing this Journey for the rest of my life because I'm hooked on the game, only time will tell how far I can go.
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I would highly recommend you learn 14.1 straight pool to give your game foundation. There are some good books, Johnny Holidays Position Play for High runs works for me. This book will make you aware of the nuances of the game and give you solid info on getting around the table, 9' preferred with this game. Once you get past the 3 rack threshold, then you may consider yourself broken in, but the next level 80 balls separates you from the good to above average players. This game alone will give you a great barometer of your skill level of play. Also, find locals that may have a home table, that will cost you zero and increase your play time. If/when you get better, expect players that practice with you to disappear as your skill increases, they get tired of racking/losing and the fun ends from their perspective, good luck. FWIW 60-70 hrs a week for years worked for me.
 
I used to play with a guy who was trying to go pro. Best player I've ever seen in person. Common for him to break and run multiple times in a row. No life, lived with his parents (he was in his late 20's), worked a part time job, and basically lived for pool. After some big regional tournament he came back completely dejected. He spoke to some pros while he was there and they were brutally honest with him. There just isn't enough money in pool to live on while you try to work your way to the top. He quit most (all??) of his pool leagues, including the team I was on, and decided to re-evaluate his life. That was the last I heard of him.
 
Pool is a great way to SUPPLEMENT your income! Only a handful of players actually make a decent living from the game, and they travel the world to do it. To be able to play pool and pick up some extra bucks once in a while is a nice bonus for a working man. Then the game remains fun and is an enjoyable pursuit. Works great for the regional tours who play their events on weekends. That's one big reason why they are so successful and numerous.
 
Interesting thread topic. Jay do your self a favor and read the book "Talent is Overrated" by Geoff Colvin. It is an interesting read about what it takes about becoming elite in your chosen game/sport. The notion of natural talent is over exaggerated in the author's opinion with some empirical evidence to back it up.

There seems to be the notion that it takes hours upon hours of play in order to become a pro player. That notion is also repeated in the above book. But, your practice must have purpose and focus. The key is to get better with less time. Purposeful practice instead of hours of practice (just hitting balls) is the goal. The good news is that it might not be about natural talent to become elite but the bad news is that it still takes a lot of time and dedicated practice (this is really the true talent). Think 10,000 hours to greatness theory.

Good luck with your journey and have fun. I think that a more realistic and fulfilling goal is to work towards becoming a top amateur. It's still very challenging with great tournaments (BCAPL, Valley, Apa, etc.) and still can align with your values, family, and work (when employed again).
 
skeptic...Sounds to me like he chose "wisely"! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

skeptic said:
I used to play with a guy who was trying to go pro. Best player I've ever seen in person. Common for him to break and run multiple times in a row. No life, lived with his parents (he was in his late 20's), worked a part time job, and basically lived for pool. After some big regional tournament he came back completely dejected. He spoke to some pros while he was there and they were brutally honest with him. There just isn't enough money in pool to live on while you try to work your way to the top. He quit most (all??) of his pool leagues, including the team I was on, and decided to re-evaluate his life. That was the last I heard of him.
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dardusm...I love that book! Even attaining all the the elements to 'get there', it's most likely that all you'll find is a large group of highly skilled players...all fighting for a tiny piece of an already too small pie. Pool tournaments historically are top-weighted, with the lion's share of the money going to 1st and possibly 2nd. Finish 5th or 10th (out of 32/64 players) and you likely have not even covered your expenses.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

dardusm said:
Interesting thread topic. Jay do your self a favor and read the book "Talent is Overrated" by Geoff Colvin. It is an interesting read about what it takes about becoming elite in your chosen game/sport. The notion of natural talent is over exaggerated in the author's opinion with some empirical evidence to back it up.

There seems to be the notion that it takes hours upon hours of play in order to become a pro player. That notion is also repeated in the above book. But, your practice must have purpose and focus. The key is to get better with less time. Purposeful practice instead of hours of practice (just hitting balls) is the goal. The good news is that it might not be about natural talent to become elite but the bad news is that it still takes a lot of time and dedicated practice (this is really the true talent). Think 10,000 hours to greatness theory.

Good luck with your journey and have fun. I think that a more realistic and fulfilling goal is to work towards becoming a top amateur. It's still very challenging with great tournaments (BCAPL, Valley, Apa, etc.) and still can align with your values, family, and work (when employed again).
Click to expand...
 
There is no distinction...

dardusm said:
Interesting thread topic. Jay do your self a favor and read the book "Talent is Overrated" by Geoff Colvin. It is an interesting read about what it takes about becoming elite in your chosen game/sport. The notion of natural talent is over exaggerated in the author's opinion with some empirical evidence to back it up.

There seems to be the notion that it takes hours upon hours of play in order to become a pro player. That notion is also repeated in the above book. But, your practice must have purpose and focus. The key is to get better with less time. Purposeful practice instead of hours of practice (just hitting balls) is the goal. The good news is that it might not be about natural talent to become elite but the bad news is that it still takes a lot of time and dedicated practice (this is really the true talent). Think 10,000 hours to greatness theory.

Good luck with your journey and have fun. I think that a more realistic and fulfilling goal is to work towards becoming a top amateur. It's still very challenging with great tournaments (BCAPL, Valley, Apa, etc.) and still can align with your values, family, and work (when employed again).
Click to expand...



There's no distinction in the sport of pool between amateur and professional.

It is only a plattitude where some are considered pros and some aren't. It's used in a context that just doesn't apply to other sports or professions.

So and so is a pro. What does that mean??? Like has been stated, anynone can pony up 500 bucks and play in the us open and say, see I"m a pro.

Another person who only plays pool for a living wouldn't have a chance in Hell against a regional open level player who only plays one tourney a year and never gambles.

The term professional pool player is ambiguous at best for the time being.

Maybe if we get our act together and get a true professional tour together with qualifiers that pays decent wages, we MIGHT have a decent distinction between professional and amateur, but for now there is no distinction.

There are planty of people that compete in the amateur championships that play as good as others that are considered pros...or they ARE considered pros themselves but are allowed to play because of the ambiguous nature of the term pro vs. amateur.

Jaden
 
Ain't that the truth...

Scott Lee said:
dardusm...I love that book! Even attaining all the the elements to 'get there', it's most likely that all you'll find is a large group of highly skilled players...all fighting for a tiny piece of an already too small pie. Pool tournaments historically are top-weighted, with the lion's share of the money going to 1st and possibly 2nd. Finish 5th or 10th (out of 32/64 players) and you likely have not even covered your expenses.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I placed 25th out of 192 players in a tourney last year and I just about broke even without having to pay for a room.

This year, I'm staying at a hotel and I"ll have to finish 15th or better to break even I think. I still love it and don't care if I double out, I'll still do it, but man that's a little disheartening and I wish the case could be different.

Jaden
 
In my own field (psychology) I am a pro. It took the requisite ten – 12 years to get there and as I read the suggestions here I look back (from the age of 67) and wonder how I did that. As a child I lived in orphanages and similar places until I was old enough to join the Marines. Some of my ideas may help you or others in their pursuit of any field.

One of the things I read many years ago was the results of a study of some of the most gifted people in the world who were studied for a life time. At the end of their life they were asked what it was all about and what lead to their successes in life. An extremely high percentage, something like 90%, said that first you must have a good home life (however you define that). You must be on good terms with your wife, your children, and your extended family. This is the base from which all of life expands. I took that to heart and have always placed my family at the top of my priorities. And now looking back I know how true that is. Nothing I have done would have been accomplished without the support of my family. Without them and their support I am nothing.

The second thing that lead to my successes (and I have had more than a few) is only partially in agreement with what others have posted here. In my life I have always held two, three or four jobs. I guess I have always “worked” 80 – 90 hour weeks. I think that my longest stint was a 36 hour uninterrupted session (except for eating and the bathroom) to accomplish what was needed. I guess this could be called obsession, dedication or sheer stupidity. But it was doing what I wanted to do.

I never took a job in which I got a raise in pay. I always took a cut in pay to get closer to the things I really wanted to do. I remember my friends asking why I did not play in the golf league, or the tennis group or other similar things. They would ask why I was such a workaholic. My answer then and it hold today is that I worked for a living as needed but that after that 40 hours was done I spent my time doing what I loved, studying psychology. All of my time (not with my family or working a job) was about psychology in one form or another.

Whenever the opportunity arose my next “job” was about psychology and then I could spend 60 – 80 – 90 hours a week for that 40 hour pay check. I remember saying to my wife I no longer know if I am “Joe the psychologist” or “the psychologist Joe.” Others would tell me I was obsessed, I knew I was in love with my chosen profession and that while not subverting the requirements for a good life with my family all of my time was consumed with the study of psychology.

At every opportunity I sought the problems, jobs; pass times that in some way involved my profession. That is the way you become a successful professional. And now that it is over and I am retired, I look back at my life with satisfaction, a sufficient income, good relations with my family and the knowledge that if I were to start it all over again with pool as my profession, I could do it and I would succeed.

In all of life, skill (or in my profession skill and intelligence) are only one third of the requirements. Dedication, perseverance, and true love of your profession that go far beyond what others are willing to do are rare qualities that have to be nurtured.
 
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Jaden...I feel for ya brother! That's why I stick to exhibitions, where I get a FAT check, whether I miss shots, or not! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Jaden said:
I placed 25th out of 192 players in a tourney last year and I just about broke even without having to pay for a room.

This year, I'm staying at a hotel and I"ll have to finish 15th or better to break even I think. I still love it and don't care if I double out, I'll still do it, but man that's a little disheartening and I wish the case could be different.

Jaden
Click to expand...
 
BTW, I did not choose my profession until I was 28 years old so age is not the deciding factor. Real consuming passion is what it is all about.

I think that psychology and pool have in common is a level of self determination. Most of what you do is dependent upon you and your dedication. It is one of the reasons I chose psychology as a profession and one of the important aspects of becoming a professional pool player. There are no excuses it is all about you and your dedication.

Of course there are some social constraints here and there but for the most part it is all about what you are willing to do.
 
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I was in my 20s when I went to the Willards event in Chicago in the early 90s. I think there were around 500 players entered, cant remember exactly but the field was ginormous. At the time I was in law school and I was running around alot playing pool. I was conflicted with the desire to get out there and maybe try to compete professional at pool or pursue what most thought was a no brainer..being a lawyer.

So there I am at the event, surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of great players. Guys who could give me the 6 pretty easily and heist me. I spent over a week at that event, both playing in it and sweating the night time circus that the tournament room turned into late night. At this tournament though I noticed one thing, there were hundreds of great players but only just a handful that looked like they were doing well. I talked to alot of them during that week and another rather depressing fact emerged. Many of these great player HATED pool. They despised the life's path they had chosen and wished with all their heart that they had taken up Golf or put the same energy at being a doctor or engineer.

I thought about it alot, because I had already had a 10 year love affair with pool. I didnt want this love affair to end and I still dont. It was easier to walk away from this dream knowing full well that pool would always be there as an incredibly enjoyable hobby and I would have the ability to have a well rounded life of raising a family, providing for their future and having the wherewithal to do things in life that I want to do such as travel, have security and not be stressed out about $.

There is alot of good advice in this thread. Some of it might rub you the wrong way but that doesnt necessarily mean its bad advice.
 
I remember hearing many years ago that an excited kid asked a famous professional player,
I believe it was Buddy Hall, "What's the first thing I need to learn to be a pro?"
And the Pro replied, "How to get comfortable sleeping in your car".
 
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