Trying to go Pro.

[w9ball]

Applying all the hours you'll need to become real professional pool player to almost any endeavor in the commercial/business world will reap far greater rewards.
There are very, very few professional pool players who make even $60K after a lifetime of sacrifice, dedication and practice.

That's about the starting salary for an engineer.

If you're a young buck, look at the lifestyle of the professional players: sleeping two or three up in B grade motels
or often in your car, eating at Sizzler when you've made a score but more often at Taco Bell or even 7 Eleven, staying up all night in,
depressing dives that smell of beer and urine listening to drunks bicker, while trying to get a game or stalling in the hopes
of getting the bet up in the game you're in, driving four hours because you heard there was action and then finding out it was BS,
living single because after a few months and the "glamour" wears off and you've blown through her savings too on matches you "couldn't lose" she takes off and it dawns
on you that no girl you've ever dreamed of will be traveling this road with you.
While your childhood friends and classmates are spending a couple of weeks in a rented chateau in Tuscany.
"Why don't you join us?"
And, "She married a Thoracic surgeon. I thought you knew. Yeah, they flew friends and family into Napa for the ceremony.
It is was magnificent." You think that's what they said because you can barely hear over the dryers in the laundrymat
where you're putting in a load of threadbare t-shirts, socks and your extra pair of jeans permanently stained with the chalk from the
rails where you scrape out a $100 on a good day.
Two hours until the Town Tap opens, might be some old-timers looking to play some $10 or $20 dollar one-pocket.
You'd like to get up enough for a room tonite-$49 out by the interstate.
Hell, if you get real lucky you might get enough to fix the water pump. You can get out of the cold and kill time
in this little diner across the street drinking their stale coffee and watch for the Stroh's sign to come on ... two hours and you're up champ ... go get 'em.
It's show time.

Sounds like the voice of experience there. I always loved pool and kinda flirted with the idea of becoming pro for several years, but wasn't advanced enough and didn't have the finances to really make a run at it. Well last year I did very well with a business I started and then find myself out of business and unemployed, but with a nice savings built up. I got a pool table at my house and coulnd't help but play 5 or 6 hours a day, just practicing by myself at my house. I started gambling with anyone but the best around and beating everyone I was playing. I made about $1000 the first month between tournaments and gambling. The next month all the guys that used to beat me wouldn't play me for anything anymore because I could give them all weight and still win. So I started playing with the best guys around, and beating them with some consistency too. I saw that a major pro event was coming up soon and I thought to myself, self, this is your chance, practice your heart out for the next couple months playing 40 hours a week and go try to beat some pros in this event., and if that works, I'll pursue a career in pool. So I started playing 8 hours a day, making myself play when I didn't want to, I lost a bit of my love for the game and found myself waking up thinking, ahhh man, I have to play pool all day again, this sucks, I played all day yesterday. SO the time passes, I play in the event and lost to Oscar Dominguez 9-2 and some guy I never heard of 9-7. Now I didn't expect to win it or anything, and Frankly as it was my first full pro event I would have been happy to win a match or 2, so in short I kinda expected to lose. What I didn't expect was to not like pool anymore. Pros play so much pool its stupid, or did at one time. Most of the champions were child prodigies and beating most of the world before they were 18, before they new any better than to just play pool all day. Trust me, it gets real old real fast. I can place consistently in semi-pro events, with like $50-$80 entry's that pay $500-$1000 for first. After playing in this pro event, I can see that I was completely outclassed and would have had about a 1/100 chance of winning this event, if that. I would have to play 8 hours a day for a couple years probly to place consistently in pro events, much less win consistently. I would not recommend becoming a pro pool player to anyone unless you can compete on a pro level without trying to become pro. Those guys don't only play 40, 60 even 80 hours a week for years, but they are also gifted. John Schmidt is the exception to the rule, he is naturally talented. Danny DiLiberto told me he didn't start playing pool til he was like 28, he was a professional boxer and a professional bowler first. They are gifted, true champions by blood. Then there's Shane, who started playing when he was 2. Those are the guys that succeed at being pro, and is it all worth it? Not financially, being a pro pool player isn't about money, its about bucking the system, not comforming to society or having a boss, its about just living to play the game of pool. If it is worth it to you to live your life, and after its over you can say, the coolest thing I ever did was play pool, and be happy with that, then being pro is 4 u. If not, stick to it as a hobby, its a lot funner!

 

[jaybanthony]

Justin(TAR) - That's what I mean by Pro - You hit it on the dot. Touring Pro not a road hustler.
When I think of a Professional pool player a guy like Mika Immonen comes to mind. Thanks.

 

[jaybanthony]

Great advice Jaden - I definitely agree with your assessment. I know that there is little money to be made from pool from competition. I'm very competitive, I played basketball, in my teens and did bodybuilding in my twenties. How good would I like to be in this game? in the words of Nacho Libre "I just want to be the best"...........It's just the way I'm wired. I can't play this game for the sake of just banging balls around.

 

[jay helfert]

Hey guys,


Thanks for all the feed back. I am 31 yrs of age. I've been playing seriously for a year and a half. I've worked my whole life though I've been out of work for a little over a year due to the bad economy(laid off). Truthfully until I can get back to work I can't really afford to put in more than 20 hrs a week. Pool is pretty expensive. I'm trying to make the most of the time I do get to play and when I'm home I try to read books and study video of the game. I know 31 is not 18 but my mind is more receptive now than it's ever been. I plan on continuing this Journey for the rest of my life because I'm hooked on the game, only time will tell how far I can go.

Jay (I like that name!), I'm not saying that it is impossible to reach pro level at your age, just highly improbable. I have learned in life that it's the exception that proves the rule. Just look at Tommy Gainey right now, trying to win his first event on the PGA Tour at 35! And he doesn't even look like a pro golfer! His swing reminds me of a ten handicapper. But he keeps making birdies, and that's what counts. In pool I've seen some guys with strange looking strokes (how about Efren, or Mike Davis) who have become highly skilled players.

You are still at the beginning of your journey. I'd like to see where you're at in another year and a half. Will you still be playing, or how much have you improved? After three years, it's possible to make a realistic evaluation of your skills. Right now, it's too soon to even do that.

 

[champ2107]

Great advice Jaden - I definitely agree with your assessment. I know that there is little money to be made from pool from competition. I'm very competitive, I played basketball, in my teens and did bodybuilding in my twenties. How good would I like to be in this game? in the words of Nacho Libre "I just want to be the best"...........It's just the way I'm wired. I can't play this game for the sake of just banging balls around.

i was wondering how many racks of 8 an 9 ball have u run in row without missing?

 

[Masayoshi]

Even if you had the talent of Efren and loved pool like a first born son, you'd still have to compete against people with the talent of Efren, who love pool like a first born son, AND who have been playing 10 hours a day every day since they were 7 (and they still probably need to borrow 20 in gas money if they lose).

 

[realkingcobra]

Hey Guys,

This is my first post on this forum. I'm trying to become a professional pool player. Can anyone please give me some advice as to how to go about it?....right now I'm only able to play about 20 hrs a week, is that enough? I'm trying to stay positive but I'm also realistic. I would appreciate any advice from the respected members of this community.
Please check out my blog as I try to chronicle my journey. http://mypooljourney.blogspot.com/

All comments are welcome.


Great pool and success.
Jay

I'm going to ask you a question that no one has asked you yet. To get a better understanding of what you're asking everyone...what is YOUR definition of a "Pro" pool player? I hear the word "Pro" thrown around so freely that it really has no true meaning to me, so...maybe you could shed a new light on the subject...which is why I'm asking you. What is it that defines the difference between someone going around saying they're a "Pro" vs someone who IS a "Pro".....so it's the "IS" that I'm concerned with....please explain if you can.

Glen

 

[jaybanthony]

Thanks Jay, I've made considerable improvements throughout my brief Journey. I guess I'll never know how good I can be unless I keep at it. I'm in too deep now to quit. I will continue to post on this site and via my blog http://mypooljourney.blogspot.com/

I'll try to post as much relevant information as possible as I continue to push forward. Thanks for the feed back. Hopefully you guys can follow my journey throughout.


Champ - I've only ran maybe a couple of racks of each so far.
High run in straight pool is 36 in a tight pocket table. I'm consistently in the 20's.

I know.............I have a long ways to go:killingme:

 

[branpureza]

Hey guys,


Thanks for all the feed back. I am 31 yrs of age. I've been playing seriously for a year and a half. I've worked my whole life though I've been out of work for a little over a year due to the bad economy(laid off). Truthfully until I can get back to work I can't really afford to put in more than 20 hrs a week. Pool is pretty expensive. I'm trying to make the most of the time I do get to play and when I'm home I try to read books and study video of the game. I know 31 is not 18 but my mind is more receptive now than it's ever been. I plan on continuing this Journey for the rest of my life because I'm hooked on the game, only time will tell how far I can go.

31, been playing a year and a half, 20 hours per week... you'll be lucky to make short stop status...

 

[jaybanthony]

Realkingcobra - My Opinion of a Pro caliber player is someone that is capable of playing against anyone in the world, also someone who carries himself with dignity and respect and isn't trying to hustle anyone. Pool has always been synonymous with hustling - I don't thing that does the progression of our game any justice. A guy like Tony Robles is another example of someone who personifies a Pro.

 

[Cuebuddy]

Thanks Jay, I've made considerable improvements throughout my brief Journey. I guess I'll never know how good I can be unless I keep at it. I'm in too deep now to quit. I will continue to post on this site and via my blog http://mypooljourney.blogspot.com/

I'll try to post as much relevant information as possible as I continue to push forward. Thanks for the feed back. Hopefully you guys can follow my journey throughout.


Champ - I've only ran maybe a couple of racks of each so far.
High run in straight pool is 36 in a tight pocket table. I'm consistently in the 20's.

I know.............I have a long ways to go:killingme:

It will be interesting to read your quest, good luck and keep your chin up and your head down.

 

[Williebetmore]

I second Johnny on this one. Scott is giving you the straight scoop here. IMO 20 hours a week is not enough table time to really improve to a high level. My opinion is that it takes nothing short of OBSESSION to be a top level player. Every one of those players who you admire, has put in thousands of hours for years to reach that level. There are no shortcuts! Good lessons/coaching, good observation (of top players), reading the best books and watching the best DVD's can help shorten the learning curve. That's about all.

JH,
Very nice analysis. I read a lot on this forum about that great "natural ability" that the pros "must" have to get where they are. Then I've asked about a hundred pros, and they all disagree and say "thousands of hours" is the ticket.

I know that Mark Wilson has estimated that it takes a good 10,000 focused hours to get to a low pro level. I'm not sure I've ever spoken to a really good pro who hasn't probably spent at least twice that.

While pool appears a simple pursuit, the level of precision required for pro play is VERY difficult to achieve. My hat is off to players dedicated enough to have gotten there.

P.S. - I'm only 2 or 3 thousand hours into it; definitely have a long way to go.

 

[richiebalto]

31, been playing a year and a half, 20 hours per week... you'll be lucky to make short stop status...

The man says he is a b player now,hes only been playing a year an a half,so i think in order to be a b player this early in his career,he has to have a pretty good amount of talent,so you maybe just right about short stop speed,i guess he will just have to wait and see,i believe with this mans will power and his talent (being a b player so early in his career) he has a so what chance to be a top player,but so few make it to the top of the pro pool player list,its just a hard thing to say for sure one way or the other,but your oponion probably holds the most truth!

 

[Jaden]

let's take a look at what 10K hours really is...

JH,
Very nice analysis. I read a lot on this forum about that great "natural ability" that the pros "must" have to get where they are. Then I've asked about a hundred pros, and they all disagree and say "thousands of hours" is the ticket.

I know that Mark Wilson has estimated that it takes a good 10,000 focused hours to get to a low pro level. I'm not sure I've ever spoken to a really good pro who hasn't probably spent at least twice that.

While pool appears a simple pursuit, the level of precision required for pro play is VERY difficult to achieve. My hat is off to players dedicated enough to have gotten there.

P.S. - I'm only 2 or 3 thousand hours into it; definitely have a long way to go.

If you play pool with focused practice and competition. The competition is a must, because even if you can play perfectly during practice that's not going to do you any good when the pressure is on...

So, if you practice 8 hours a day five days a week every week for five years, you will have BARELY broken the ten thousand hour mark...

When I first started playing pool seriously, I played 12-15 hours a day six days a week for about two years straight.

That was about 7000 hours, IF I'm not exagerating, which I probably am. (not purposely, just not remembering correctly, not counting drive time, etc..)

I had been planning on going pro until mental problems started rearing their ugly head.

I took a six or seven year hiatus from serious pool, and have now been trying to claw my way back to a high level of play. It's taken 11 years to get back (and figuring out that myeyesight is no longer 20-15..lol) and I"m just now starting to overcome my mental handicaps.

I still don't play to my full capability in competition, but I'll continue to work at it and compete more often against top players, but I"ll likely not be able to EVER quit my day job.

So like I said in an earlier post to the OP, concnetrate on getting to the highest level of play you are capable of and compete with the best players you can as often as you can and see what happens, but don't focus on becoming a pro, because even if it does happen, it ain't all it's cracked up to be...

Jaden

 

[realkingcobra]

Realkingcobra - My Opinion of a Pro caliber player is someone that is capable of playing against anyone in the world, also someone who carries himself with dignity and respect and isn't trying to hustle anyone. Pool has always been synonymous with hustling - I don't thing that does the progression of our game any justice. A guy like Tony Robles is another example of someone who personifies a Pro.

I guessed your explanation would be something like you explained. If I were in control of pool today...I'd require all players to take a skill level test first, and only the top 512 players by score would be considered "Pro" level...that way...all those wanting to become a "Pro" pool player would have at least some kind of idea as to what they're ball making abilities would have to be at in order to be at a "Pro" level...or even a "Semi Pro" for that matter. Unlike bowling or golf, pool is a sport in which anyone can call themselves a "Pro" without needing to show proof that they have the skills to back up their claim.

Until sponsorship of pool tournaments exceed the total entry fees paid by all the players in the event...pool tournaments are nothing more than a big ring game full of players all playing for the most part....everyone else's money....that is why there are so many so called "Pro" players in the world today....their entry fees are needed to make these events even take place. As a sponsor of such events, I'd require all players to take the same skill level test before each event...and only the TOP 256 players by skill level test score in the world would be allowed to compete...at a "Pro" level....all other players would be excluded from such events.

So, good luck in your pursuit to be a "Pro" player

Glen

 

[cubswin]

my definition of pro (at anything) is someone who makes their living at it. Not very many in pool doing that.

Sounds to me that you have no job, and lot of free time and want to be better at pool. Nothing wrong with that, you may even get to be a good short stop or professional level player. Be real hard to make a living without gambling, and then if you lose you are out of money.

Until a good professional tour comes along, there isn't going to be alot of separation between the hustle/gambling world.

 

[jaybanthony]

Cubswin - I don't have a job at the moment as I mentioned previously, not by choice. I was laid off a year ago and have had a tough time finding work just like millions of others. I love the game of Pool and want to be as good as I can possibly be but it's not my main priority in life. Providing for my family and improving their quality of life is the most important. 20 hrs a week is hardly a lot of time. Truthfully I wish I could play more but realistically I can't and if I could, I wouldn't want to play 8-12 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week. What kind of life would that be?....I'd miss out on a lot.

 

[gonegray]

jaybanthony...First, get a good education. Second, get a good job, so you can AFFORD to play in pro events (and have something to fall back on). QUOTE]

If you want to be a pro pool player, go to nursing school and get your RN. As a nurse, you can work as an Agency nurse (per diem/PRN) allowing you to be in control of your own schedule, and get paid on a daily basis to support your Professional-Pool goal. You can work 15 days in a row, making all the overtime you can stand, THEN, take off for weeks at a time without having to ask for permission because you are the boss of your schedule, like an idependent contractor. This is a good job if you want to be a professional poker player too, same reasons. There is job satisfaction, security, flexiblity, and stability.

If somewhere along the way, you catch a gear and become the next Shane or Buddy Hall, then you can just stop nursing. Be realistic and reasonable though, that is unlikely to happen, just like you are unlikely to wake up one morning and look in the mirror and see Brad Pitts face on top of your shoulders, with Angelina's legs peaking out from under the silk covers behind you.

The good thing is that you are researching, asking experienced people questions. Hopefully, you are also smart enough to listen and make the best decisions for your (and your family's) future.

Get the following:
1. An education
2. A few close friends you can trust
3. A vasectomy
4. A savings account
5. A healthy diet
6. An exercise regimen
7. STOP smoking!

BTW, I love what Chris Bartram says. That should be a pretty good test for you. You should take him up on that RIGHT NOW! just to get a good baseline of where you stand. Make him bet high though...dont D**K around!

Good luck, good skill!

:grin-square:

 

[Williebetmore]

That was about 7000 hours, IF I'm not exagerating, which I probably am. (not purposely, just not remembering correctly, not counting drive time, etc..)

Jaden

J-man,
You know the real cost of such dedication. You've got to live it. All of the top pros I've interviewed have lived it. There is significant cost to such a pursuit (and I'm not talking dollars); that's why so few succeed.

 

[cubswin]

Cubswin - I don't have a job at the moment as I mentioned previously, not by choice. I was laid off a year ago and have had a tough time finding work just like millions of others. I love the game of Pool and want to be as good as I can possibly be but it's not my main priority in life. Providing for my family and improving their quality of life is the most important. 20 hrs a week is hardly a lot of time. Truthfully I wish I could play more but realistically I can't and if I could, I wouldn't want to play 8-12 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week. What kind of life would that be?....I'd miss out on a lot.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with spending time playing. Hell if I wasn't working right now I'd probably play 40 hours a week (at least while the lakes are frozen over).

I think you've answered your own question about going pro though (Truthfully I wish I could play more but realistically I can't and if I could, I wouldn't want to play 8-12 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week. What kind of life would that be?....I'd miss out on a lot.) because that is what it takes I think.