TS Pay Out?

[watchez]

I'm just tired of the BS associated with pool here in America.

Mike Zuglan is a real standup guy. The Joss Tour is the best here in the States. No player has ever not been paid after an event. All the prize money is paid every event. If you consider his advertising for the Turning Stone event smoke and mirrors, oh well. Your loss.

Lyn

If you are tired of the BS in pool then you should realize that things can always improve.

Here are some reading comprehension points for those that don't know magic.
Not one person in this thread has stated that Mike Zuglan is not a standup guy or good for pool. That being said, if the money added wasn't $25K then he should state why. If the people in this thread are making a math error of their own then that can be easily corrected. I don't agree that a tournament should state $25k added and then have fees for a TD, expense of moving tables, hotel, auto, or anything else deducted. That should all be deducted before the added money is advertised. And to those that are giving out these costs for the reason of the added money going from $25k - $20k, you are simply assuming without any fact. That is far worse than someone asking a simple question.

Mark Griffin, the person that posted the initial question, is a standup guy. He runs a huge tournament in Vegas and posts all entry fees based on number of entries along with added money for the world to see. He doesn't take money out of the added money to pay his staffs salary, for his advertising, for bringing in 300 pool tables. I could go on but hopefully most of you get this point. I think Mark asked a fair question and had the guts to ask it himself. Mark could have not asked it at all but he cares about pool players. He could have had his wife post the question to deflect some of the attitude that he has received on here by some of the posters for asking his question. But he didn't and I commend him for being, once again, a stand up guy.

It is not hard to post for the world to see payouts of a tournament. If I ran a tournament and advertised $25K added, I would have a board as big as the tournament bracket and it would list -
# of players X # of entry fees
amount added
total payouts for all places and a summation of these payouts
Then even those that are not good at math could see that what came in, also went out.

If a tournament owner/director or whatever job title you want to give out, wants to charge a $25 green fee, then state so. If the tournament wants to deduct $5000 for moving tables and paying for a baby sitter for their pet hamster for the weekend, then state that as well.

Finally, personally attacks are a weak excuse to deflect from the real issue. I don't know why anyone would attack Roy. He does more for pool and has the resume to prove it than probably everyone in this thread combined minus Mark Griffin. There are many things wrong with our country, the great USA, too many to list. Support of terroists??? Google 'Contra'. Also Google 'crack cocaine mayor Washington DC twice elected' for some other enjoyable reading.

 

[cardiac kid]

OK, one more post. Watchez, of all the posters on this thread I have one major distinction. I both played and cashed in the event. I should be the only one here with the right to ***** about the payouts. I bet if you asked all one hundred and twenty eight players or, even better, the thirty two players who cashed whether they felt there was a problem, you'd get the same answer. Guess what that might be? I agree that more can be done. But why, why can't the most vociferous of the complainers on this thread just pick up the phone and call Mr. Zuglan. Even e-mail him. Both addresses are available on the Joss 9 Ball web site. Hasn't happened yet!

Lyn

 

[JAM]

I have two words to say: Dirty Feet.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

OK, one more post. Watchez, of all the posters on this thread I have one major distinction. I both played and cashed in the event. I should be the only one here with the right to ***** about the payouts. I bet if you asked all one hundred and twenty eight players or, even better, the thirty two players who cashed whether they felt there was a problem, you'd get the same answer. Guess what that might be? I agree that more can be done. But why, why can't the most vociferous of the complainers on this thread just pick up the phone and call Mr. Zuglan. Even e-mail him. Both addresses are available on the Joss 9 Ball web site. Hasn't happened yet!

Lyn

Why should we bother e-mail him when we've already been told numerous times that he is reading this thread.

If he doesn't want to explain the math in public, that's up to him.

 

[corvette1340]

cocaine is a helluva drug.

 

[JAM]

OK, one more post. Watchez, of all the posters on this thread I have one major distinction. I both played and cashed in the event. I should be the only one here with the right to ***** about the payouts. I bet if you asked all one hundred and twenty eight players or, even better, the thirty two players who cashed whether they felt there was a problem, you'd get the same answer. Guess what that might be? I agree that more can be done. But why, why can't the most vociferous of the complainers on this thread just pick up the phone and call Mr. Zuglan. Even e-mail him. Both addresses are available on the Joss 9 Ball web site. Hasn't happened yet!

Lyn

Lyn, it's best to take Chris Lynch's advice, previously written in the thread.

Don't let yourself get pulled in. Check this out. Somehow it reminds me of this thread: Thread Reminder

 

[maldito]

OK - now I am confused.

So I think there is an error in the payout posted because I don't think Zuglan is taking $5,200 out of the player entry fees. I have talked to Mike a few times over the years and I think he is a pretty good guy.

So can somebody enlighten me?

Mark Griffin

You have talked to the guy a few times - so why not ask him and you would have been "enlightened". Have you been "enlightened" by what has been said so far??

 

[lfigueroa]

Chris,

I agree wholeheartedly. Mike does not deserve this grief. Spoke with him for half and hour this morning. It appears no one has called him regarding the subject of this thread. It figures. Typical group of whiners. Done!

Lyn

What grief?

It's a simple question, that Mark asked.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I both played and cashed in the event. I should be the only one here with the right to ***** about the payouts.
Lyn

hmmm, no. I don't think it works like that.

Nice try though

Lou Figueroa
your lack of participation
sure didn't stop you in the APA thread

 

[Tom In Cincy]

I did contact MZ and I am very satisfied with his side of this.

I still applaud Lyn for sticking to his guns and backing up his buddy. I like that in a friend.

Please remember I am from the West coast and we don't have the luxury of multiple TOURS servicing our players. We just have Rooms that put up added money and run monthly events. That has to be enough for us, its all we have.

Added + entry fees = tournament to go to and cash if you play well enough.

 

[RBC]

I have read this entire thread and I can understand both sides.

However, I think that there is a reason that Mark chose to post his question here, and not call MZ directly. I think Mark wants all of us, as players and spectators, to be aware and ask our own questions. For that, he must post his question for all to see.

I don't think anyone is willing to say that a tournament promoter should advertise a certain amount of added money, and then not put it in the payouts. At least I would be very surprised if someone said that this was ok to do.

I know Mark, and I know MZ. I actually am an advertiser with the his tour, and plan on continuing to do so.

I think it is fair to say that, going forward, all tournament promoters should follow truth in advertising principles which means that advertised added monies is actually added monies.

We are all on the same side!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

 

[Barry C.]

Just let me say, the added monies is the added monies. As with the majority of events, any green fees, registration fees, etc; are taken out of entry fees. If anyone has a question about it, then all they have to do is ask.

You can search the web, etc; and find many flyers and promotions concerning events and most will not have any sort of disclosure.

For a final time, here's an event that just put over $40,000 into the sport of pool. plus, thousands more dollars into the hands of vendors that supply and manufacture pool related products. Also, countless hours of planning and advertising the sport, to all who will listen or read. Then presented the event in one of the nicest venues you could imagine, Turning Stones Casino. And it was all FREE to anyone that wanted to spectate.

After this, all you people can do is point fingers and try to cast dark shadows about the event, over stupid information that someone didn't hand to you on a silver platter, but is readily available for the asking. I find it very petty.

Barry

 

[corvette1340]

Just let me say, the added monies is the added monies. As with the majority of events, any green fees, registration fees, etc; are taken out of entry fees. If anyone has a question about it, then all they have to do is ask.

You can search the web, etc; and find many flyers and promotions concerning events and most will not have any sort of disclosure.

For a final time, here's an event that just put over $40,000 into the sport of pool. plus, thousands more dollars into the hands of vendors that supply and manufacture pool related products. Also, countless hours of planning and advertising the sport, to all who will listen or read. Then presented the event in one of the nicest venues you could imagine, Turning Stones Casino. And it was all FREE to anyone that wanted to spectate.

After this, all you people can do is point fingers and try to cast dark shadows about the event, over stupid information that someone didn't hand to you on a silver platter, but is readily available for the asking. I find it very petty.

Barry

you still don't get it, which is sad. NOBODY is casting a shadow on anything. Please read all of the posts and try to comprehend. I know it's hard, but someone will help you if you'll just ask. The information is readily available for the asking. If this was the Thursday night tourney at Joe's Billiard parlor and he advertised $500 added and entry was $10 the question would still be valid if the math didn't add up.

Nobody is saying MZ or his tour is trying to screw anyone. Quite the opposite actually, everyone has said that Mike is a stand up individual and his tour is the model for successful tours in the U.S. I don't understand how people simply cannot debate the issue at hand and not see how it's beneficial to everyone involved in the future to disclose added monies and where the money goes.

 

[watchez]

OK, one more post. Watchez, of all the posters on this thread I have one major distinction. I both played and cashed in the event. I should be the only one here with the right to ***** about the payouts. I bet if you asked all one hundred and twenty eight players or, even better, the thirty two players who cashed whether they felt there was a problem, you'd get the same answer. Guess what that might be? I agree that more can be done. But why, why can't the most vociferous of the complainers on this thread just pick up the phone and call Mr. Zuglan. Even e-mail him. Both addresses are available on the Joss 9 Ball web site. Hasn't happened yet!

Lyn

Thank you for your polite response.

Ok - so Tom in Cincy did contact but chose not to post what was discussed so it still remains a mystery.

Again, I don't think anyone on this thread is complaining to any extreme. A simple math question is being asked. And it was asked politely. Others have twisted this into more than what it is.

On your statement, about I should be the only one here with the right to ***** about the payouts. . I would disagree with this as well. Maybe I am going to quit my job, devote 14 hours a day to pool, learn how to draw my ball, and play in big events like Turning Stone. But before doing so, I would like to know all the facts of the event including how much I can really win if I cash (congrats on your finish by the way). I appreciate that, per the flyer, the event was free to attend but also as a spectator, I like to go to BIG events. BTW - I always make sure that I spend money in an establishment at an event to show support. Even the Riviera gets me for a meal or two each year and a few round of drinks for my friends. In this case, it appears there is a 20% discrepancy. In other pool events, it has been far worse. Maybe as a spectator, I would like to choose to go to the Turning Stone $25K event over say the Seminole $6K added event. Mike Zuglan is not only advertising for the players but also to gain spectators. And the casino will benefit more from me as a spectator than most of the pool players that were there.

Finally, the discrepancy in this case was $5K - possibly $2800 by other accounts - possibly zero if the majority of people adding up the money are simply missing something. Nothing has been proven and until it has, anyone's opinion should be held until it is. And, again I don't know Mike Zuglan, but he has been stated to be a standup guy. So if the standup guy is going to possibly adjust his added money by 10-20%, what is the non-standup guy going to think that he can get away with?

Also, on your statement of your right to ***** about the payouts - I remember in the days of John McChesney and the McDermott tour. He got great turnout for his events and touted $5000 added, etc. So I decide to stake a player in one of his events, and leaped before I looked. When the player I staked was guaranteed 3rd, I looked at the payout board and thought to myself that it was kind of low. Then I added up all the payouts and saw that $1425 was missing out of a $60 entry fee tournament. I felt it was my right than to ***** and I did. Seems that none of the pool players for years had taken the time to add up any of the money. So, out of the 128 players that were @ Turning Stone, I would bet that less than 10% would even know that there possibly is an issue about the added money.

 

[iba7467]

BTW if I were Mike I'd skip answering anything here, it's not worth it because someone is going to complain no matter what

I feel that is incorrect. If Mike advertised $25,000 added and the math added up to $25,000 added there would be no complaining.

I have mentioned this numerous times. You can check one of the first threads I started that brought this out about a couple tours. I got hate PMs from a couple directors telling me not to stick my nose in their business. The point is advertising $25,000 added (with no disclaimer) is false advertising.

 

[corvette1340]

I feel that is incorrect. If Mike advertised $25,000 added and the math added up to $25,000 added there would be no complaining.

I have mentioned this numerous times. You can check one of the first threads I started that brought this out about a couple tours. I got hate PMs from a couple directors telling me not to stick my nose in their business. The point is advertising $25,000 added (with no disclaimer) is false advertising.

you'll get hate messages for this post too. Either by people who are too stupid to realize the benefit or reasoning behind posting it, or by people that simply want to stand behind someone because they are friendly with them regardless of whether they are right or wrong. People do this all the time on here even if they contradict themselves from one thread to the next.

 

[JAM]

One generation comes from the old country, wearing tattered clothing and working long days. They create capital and manage to produce a nice farm. They live a modest and humble life on a farm, and the barn is actually larger than the house. They pass the farm to the next generation, which says, "Hey, I do not have a mortgage payment, but I do have this cool barn. I think I'll get a home equity loan and expand." When this gets passed to the third generation, the grandchildren of the old country farmers, they don't know the ethic. They neglect the barn, the farm, and the house. Meanwhile, their children, the fourth generation, gets their parents' debt, a big fat goose egg.

 

[watchez]

First you catch your girlfriend sending emails back and forth to some guy from work. She says that he is just a nice guy and had a few questions about their job. Then he starts texting her and she says that he is just looking for someone to talk to because he is having problems with his own girlfriend. Next, your girlfriend goes to have drinks with the guy so she can talk to him, because he is really upset and wants to help him out with his girlfriend issue. Then you notice that your girlfriend is wearing makeup again, every day and a revealing sweater that she hasn't worn in months. Your girlfriend starts coming home late from work, saying that she is working on a 'project' and it is taking more time than she thought. Finally, you come home from work early one day and find your girlfriend bent over by the co-worker that she was just trying to help out with his problem.

 

[iba7467]

One generation comes from the old country, wearing tattered clothing and working long days. They create capital and manage to produce a nice farm. They live a modest and humble life on a farm, and the barn is actually larger than the house. They pass the farm to the next generation, which says, "Hey, I do not have a mortgage payment, but I do have this cool barn. I think I'll get a home equity loan and expand." When this gets passed to the third generation, the grandchildren of the old country farmers, they don't know the ethic. They neglect the barn, the farm, and the house. Meanwhile, their children, the fourth generation, gets their parents' debt, a big fat goose egg.

That is a nice summation of the current situation of our country. I do not know how this applies to this thread though.

I do know that as a farmer/rancher if a buyer says you can get $150 per calf and a $25,000 bonus if you have 128 of them ... well that dude better come up with $44,200.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

That is a nice summation of the current situation of our country. I do not know how this applies to this thread though.

I do know that as a farmer/rancher if a buyer says you can get $150 per calf and a $25,000 bonus if you have 128 of them ... well that dude better come up with $44,200.

You have to remember that the buyer needs to pay gasoline and insurance on the transportation. It is also a long ride, so he will need food and hotel. The total of this is $ 2800, but no problem, he will only take it from the bonus. That's fair, isn't?