Turning Stone Classic Joss Events

nathandumoulin said:
And what about the other top pros who didn't place in the top 5 and lost money while attending the event? Times are tough, and not all players can afford to travel to all events.

Rodney has opted to only play in ranking events. I see little reason why he should be judged, especially when we do not have any proof whatsoever that the players association is the cause of the event no longer being ranked. Just because he placed well in this event does not mean that we should look down on his decision.
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A couple Turning Stone events, Charlie Bryant voiced his concern with Mike Zuglan about seeding players. The conversation, according to one of the parties involved in the conversation, got heated. :o

Mike Zuglan should be able to run the tour the way he wants to, and believe me, he is. If Rodney, et al., doesn't show up, the tournament will go on, and I will bet the Joss Tour will probably gets more players at Turning Stone because of the simple fact that some new players might feel they have a better chance to get in the money without the new "organization" of pool pros on site.

I think it's a joke. Zuglan has worked all these years on trying to make something happen with big monies added, and now this. I'll guarantee you this hurts his feelings, whether he admits it or not, but needless to say, the Northeast has a strong pool contingency. They're going to survive just fine.
 
Maybe the 100 other tours in the area should try holding a bigger event the week before or after TS... hell, another event the week before and after, how many big names would shoot then?
 
mahnamahna,

The culprit is the Mosconi Cup Team and how it's members are decided. The top four on the points list are invited along with the fifth player decided by promoters choice. In previous years, I believe Earl was invited. My guess is in hopes he would "go off" and lend some spice to the event. Last year, the promoter chose to allow the pool public to vote for the fifth player. Dennis Hatch won the ballot:bow-down:. Never having been involved with the Mosconi Cup, I don't know the financials. My guess is it is really, really lucrative for the players involved. Hence the need to top the rankings. Again, JMHO.

Lyn
 
I haven't always agreed with Mr Zuglan. But running his own tour events his way is the only way ! I agree with him 100% on this !

Its one thing to listen to advice and another to have an ultimatum in your face.

But all you know this maybe alot of spectulation here !

We need to see an official statement at sometime in the future.
 
cardiac kid said:
mahnamahna,

The culprit is the Mosconi Cup Team and how it's members are decided. The top four on the points list are invited along with the fifth player decided by promoters choice. In previous years, I believe Earl was invited. My guess is in hopes he would "go off" and lend some spice to the event. Last year, the promoter chose to allow the pool public to vote for the fifth player. Dennis Hatch won the ballot:bow-down:. Never having been involved with the Mosconi Cup, I don't know the financials. My guess is it is really, really lucrative for the players involved. Hence the need to top the rankings. Again, JMHO.

Lyn
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Thank you for the excellent explaination. I voted (repeatedly) for Hatch last year.
 
cardiac kid said:
mahnamahna,

The culprit is the Mosconi Cup Team and how it's members are decided. The top four on the points list are invited along with the fifth player decided by promoters choice. In previous years, I believe Earl was invited. My guess is in hopes he would "go off" and lend some spice to the event. Last year, the promoter chose to allow the pool public to vote for the fifth player. Dennis Hatch won the ballot:bow-down:. Never having been involved with the Mosconi Cup, I don't know the financials. My guess is it is really, really lucrative for the players involved. Hence the need to top the rankings. Again, JMHO.

Lyn
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Also keep in mind that ranking events seed players in other tournaments, as well as qualify players to play in international invitational events. :)

I already know most of who will be on the Mosconi cup teams this year, and this TS ranking issue has little to do with it.
 
Jason Robichaud said:
Maybe the 100 other tours in the area should try holding a bigger event the week before or after TS... hell, another event the week before and after, how many big names would shoot then?
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Jason,

Several years ago, Hilton??? Hotels became involved with a pro pool tour. May have been the UPA. They proceeded to schedule an event beginning the same weekend as the February Turning Stone. Lots of bad blood. Thankfully, the fools who made this happen lost the sponsorship. Unfortunately, pool lost a sponsor as well. And the Turning Stone goes on. Thanks to the Native American Oneida Tribe for their continuing support! And Mike Zuglan for making it happen.

Lyn
 
nathandumoulin said:
Also keep in mind that ranking events seed players in other tournaments, as well as qualify players to play in international invitational events. :)

I already know most of who will be on the Mosconi cup teams this year, and this TS ranking issue has little to do with it.
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What are you thinking the MC Team will be then ?

Me thinks , JA, SVB, Dennis, Rodney, and ?
 
nathandumoulin said:
I already know most of who will be on the Mosconi cup teams this year, and this TS ranking issue has little to do with it.
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Nathan,

You obviously have inside information. I'm just really pissed that Mike Zuglan and the Turning Stone event are being dragged down again. Last year it was the added money issue. Mike has done too much for pool in the Northeast US to be treated this way again.

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
Nathan,

You obviously have inside information. I'm just really pissed that Mike Zuglan and the Turning Stone event are being dragged down again. Last year it was the added money issue. Mike has done too much for pool in the Northeast US to be treated this way again.

Lyn
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Lyn, it is assine that the so-called "organization" is making demands of Mike Zuglan when not only are they paid in CASH MONEY, but there are only a handful of American so-called "pros" that are even eligible to Mosconi Cup. Zuglan and Turning Stone is supposed to change their format to accommodate a handful of "pros"? I don't think so. There's less than a dozen that are even eligible.

Besides, Jeanette, Karen, Jennifer, Julie, Liz, and other lady pros will be welcome. You should have seen the male pit bosses and staff coming up to check the ladies play at Turning Stone. They absolutely adored the lady pros, as did the patrons on site. :wink:
 
oldzilla said:
What are you thinking the MC Team will be then ?

Me thinks , JA, SVB, Dennis, Rodney, and ?
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Sadly I cannot comment on this. I have to keep my mouth shut. I will however say that I am very much looking forward to the event this year. It's going to be amazing as always.
 
real bartram said:
true jay
but look at it from his side
he prolly spent 1200 to 1500 in exp.
prolly have to get 5 6 to be even.
thats tough action if you ask me.
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Exactly right!!

Someone on the livestream was going on and on about it paying 8K for first place. Saying that it was a real good payday...

It's hard to believe some people actually think 8K is a large sum of $$$. Especially when it's 1st place money. You can place 75th in a golf tourny and cash for that. Or better..

Money in pool...just flat sucks.
 
Rick S. said:
Exactly right!!

Someone on the livestream was going on and on about it paying 8K for first place. Saying that it was a real good payday...

It's hard to believe some people actually think 8K is a large sum of $$$. Especially when it's 1st place money. You can place 75th in a golf tourny and cash for that. Or better..

Money in pool...just flat sucks.
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Pool is a rich man's high, no question about it. Professional pool is impossible unless you have a corpulent stakehorse or a sponsor. :wink:
 
Rick,

I agree with your assessment of today's pool world. Unfortunately, the players have brought this situation on themselves. All of the top sponsors who jumped into the pool world were burned. They tend to have long memories. Just think where we would be if the Native American's decided to spend their casino earnings elsewhere! 8k doesn't seem that bad a payday after all.

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
Rick,

I agree with your assessment of today's pool world. Unfortunately, the players have brought this situation on themselves. All of the top sponsors who jumped into the pool world were burned. They tend to have long memories. Just think where we would be if the Native American's decided to spend their casino earnings elsewhere! 8k doesn't seem that bad a payday after all.

Lyn
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With CSI tournaments, BCA League 10-ball pro events, Reno Open, Joss/Turning Stone, U.S. Open, DCC, SBE pro event, that's the American pro player's TripTik for events on American soil.

The regional tours is where it's at. Everything else is too doggone expensive.

Why should Joss Tour change its structure to accommodate six or seven American pros? I don't get it.
 
cardiac kid said:
Rick,

I agree with your assessment of today's pool world. Unfortunately, the players have brought this situation on themselves. All of the top sponsors who jumped into the pool world were burned. They tend to have long memories. Just think where we would be if the Native American's decided to spend their casino earnings elsewhere! 8k doesn't seem that bad a payday after all.

Lyn
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I know of what you speak. I put on the first L.A. Open in 1992 and paid out $140,000. The next year the MPBA boycotted my event and many of the top pros didn't come. These guys had been my friends for many years and it really hurt me when this happened. But I learned a good lesson.

By the way the L.A. Open paid out $160,000 the second year and Mark Tadd won $26,000 himself. Later on a few of the pros expressed their regret to me about not playing. One more bad choice they made that cost them heavily. There was never another L.A. Open after that. And several other prominent promoters at that time decided against putting on events because of this.
 
real bartram said:
true jay
but look at it from his side
he prolly spent 1200 to 1500 in exp.
prolly have to get 5 6 to be even.
thats tough action if you ask me.
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So you think it's better if they just don't come. The only people that get hurt in a boycott are the players. Perhaps they should consider working with Mike Z. to see if there is a way to make the Turning Stone events even bigger. Perhaps with top players coming early and making personal appearances around the area in places like children's hospitals etc. That's what the pro golfers do at every tour stop.

But that makes too much sense. It's much easier to just tell the promoter what you want him to do for you. I'm sorry but I only see more short sighted thinking going on here. "If they don't do it our way, we won't come."
 
jay helfert said:
So you think it's better if they just don't come. The only people that get hurt in a boycott are the players. Perhaps they should consider working with Mike Z. to see if there is a way to make the Turning Stone events even bigger. Perhaps with top players coming early and making personal appearances around the area in places like children's hospitals etc. That's what the pro golfers do at every tour stop.

But that makes too much sense. It's much easier to just tell the promoter what you want him to do for you. I'm sorry but I only see more short sighted thinking going on here. "If they don't do it our way, we won't come."
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if they can do what yousay they can
then yes that would make perfect since.
but with the tourneys paying what they pay
its just not worth it.
 
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