Unethical or Just Lucky?

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Your replies to BP and myself

poolplayer2093 said:
the post where you started insulting people was post 92. it really seemed like you wanted to call names when no one had called you any names. actually i just checked someone did call you something but that wasn't me.

relax bro, no need to throw a fit
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PP,

You attacked me implying I was racist repeatedly, bumpypickle attacked me as a racist and a moron also repeatedly and in violation of the ROE, all before I responded in post #92. I think my response was quite mild. I try to not cause the mod's extra work in my dealings with folks making asses out of themselves. You both made it quite plain just how big of asses you are in your own posts so anything I did was redundant anyway.

I meet everyone halfway or even more. Those that treat me decently think that I am a great guy, those that act like asses think I am an even bigger ass. Either is fine with me.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
PP,

You attacked me implying I was racist repeatedly, bumpypickle attacked me as a racist and a moron also repeatedly and in violation of the ROE, all before I responded in post #92. I think my response was quite mild. I try to not cause the mod's extra work in my dealings with folks making asses out of themselves. You both made it quite plain just how big of asses you are in your own posts so anything I did was redundant anyway.

I meet everyone halfway or even more. Those that treat me decently think that I am a great guy, those that act like asses think I am an even bigger ass. Either is fine with me.

Hu
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i just pm'd you this but i figured i'd post it here just so everyone can see it
i'm just going to come out and say it. I'm sorry. sometimes i come off as a jerk on here and maybe i assumed too much when i read your post. i really didn't mean any disrespect but when i read what you posted i took it at face value. without reading between the lines what you wrote really does imply what i said in the thread. i don't think you're a racist or anything, i really did just figure you typed it poorly. but you came on and kind of flew off the handle at me and that other guy.

anyway long story short

i didn't mean anything by it and i'm sorry if it seemed like i did.

merry christmas to you and yours

Sam
 
AtLarge said:
"Hypothetical" scenario.

A widow is disposing of some of her recently-deceased husband's possessions, including an old pool cue. The cue-ignorant widow is advised to contact Knowledgeable Cue Dealer (KCD) to discuss the cue. KCD goes to her house, inspects the cue, and asks her how much she wants for it. She says she doesn't know, it has just been lying around in the attic for most of the past 35 years, .............., how about $250? KCD pays her the money and leaves with the cue.

The next day, KCD calls one of his cue-collecting customers and sells the highly inlaid Balabushka cue for $25,000.

Was KCD unethical, just lucky, or something else?
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The KCD was acting unethically, cut and dried. One alternative: the dealer could have offered to get the full value for a 20% fee.
 
JimS said:
The short of it is; The cue dealer is a thief, and, in editing this post, I'll add that bumpypickle and poolplayer2093 appear to have no ethics. A couple of other posters also appear to be pretty shady characters as they make mention of "it happens all the time" and this clearly implies that because it happens frequently we should think of it as being morally acceptable.

The thinking behind justifying a way of thinking or acting because it happens frequently is what has caused the lowering of morality in this country over the last 30 or so years. Because of the electronic media and it's ability to inform us of more events in the world, more people have been made aware of more of the larceny and dishonesty in the world and have used this increased awareness to justify their own greed or lust or other self-serving character defect they may have. The thinking often is; "Hey! They did it so I can too!".

What's that old saying... two wrongs don't make a right? Right?
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i won't say that i have no ethics. in general i'm a good guy but if someone's going to give me money i'm not going to tell them other ways they can use it.

some players only get in games where they have the nuts. does that mean they also have no ethics? Car dealers take advantage of young 1st time car buyers all the time. does that mean they have no ethics.

it's not the most honest thing in the world to do, and i most wouldn't do it at all if she needed (really can't emphasize needed enough) the money. But at the end of the day me,car dealers,mechanics, and exotic dancers do what we can to make a buck.

if you think i'm that bad a guy check the threads i've started in the wanted/sale forum. i've given a lot of people great deals. some people might argue that i've been robbed outright a couple of times. i don't lie steal or cheat but i also don't refuse money if people throw it at me
 
Brutally Unethical, He should have kicked back the widow at least 25% in jelly after the sale. There is probably a special place in hell for this person if he was brought in as a consultant and did this to the grieving widow. If he just happened to luck in on a great deal, he still should kick her back a decent jelly roll.

-don
 
Thecoats said:
Brutally Unethical, He should have kicked back the widow at least 25% in jelly after the sale. There is probably a special place in hell for this person if he was brought in as a consultant and did this to the grieving widow. If he just happened to luck in on a great deal, he still should kick her back a decent jelly roll.

-don
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But here's the question now. Does he tell her what he sold the cue for after he gives her her jelly?
 
"Kicked the bucket" is an English term for dying.
It is commonly used in New Zealand and Australia as well.
There is no demeaning in the term at all.
It is usually used when someone died suddenly , not from a long illness.
 
I did mean what I said

Sam,

I was replying to your pm but I'll go ahead and post my reply in public too. I did mean what I said. It being an unpleasant truth or not politically correct doesn't change reality. The lady being poor meant that she had no means of carrying the rifle to someone else. My friend had the only shop in town and for miles around and she wouldn't have a car or driver's license. She could catch a ride with someone or send the rifle off with somebody else but neither was going to happen. You dealt with the local person, like them or not, and my friend and his father before him were well respected in the community.

Unfortunately being black and female in the place and time she grew up in means that there were almost certainly no educational opportunities for her. Even if there was a school available, few people including her parents were likely to think that she would have any use for the three R's. They believed her time was better spent helping out and learning how to be a good wife. Formal education was low on the list of things that people thought most children needed and children were kept out of school to work quite often. All schools even shut down for planting and harvest seasons, no real choice since the class rooms would be mostly empty. Illiteracy rates were very high for all children with mostly just the children with a specific need for an education receiving one. Fair or not, this mostly meant the son of a businessman or land owner.

I don't like the things in the world that were unfair then, I don't like the things that are unfair now. I believe we are all equal as human beings. I believe in equal opportunities and equal rights for everyone and I have often been in a position to prove that. Over the years I have hired and terminated several hundred people. I can honestly say that every person hired was hired on perceived merit without regard for race or gender and every person terminated was terminated by reverse order of merit also. Although what you see as my bragging offends you, my record as an employer is one more thing I am proud of.

I too will apologize for being an ass. Obviously we both felt that we had cause.

A Merry Christmas to you and yours too!

Hu



poolplayer2093 said:
i just pm'd you this but i figured i'd post it here just so everyone can see it
i'm just going to come out and say it. I'm sorry. sometimes i come off as a jerk on here and maybe i assumed too much when i read your post. i really didn't mean any disrespect but when i read what you posted i took it at face value. without reading between the lines what you wrote really does imply what i said in the thread. i don't think you're a racist or anything, i really did just figure you typed it poorly. but you came on and kind of flew off the handle at me and that other guy.

anyway long story short

i didn't mean anything by it and i'm sorry if it seemed like i did.

merry christmas to you and yours

Sam
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Laws against exploitiation of elderly persons...

This scenario, which may or may not be true, is unethical at least...and maybe illegal. If the woman, family member, or friend found out about it and she decided to press charges, the dealer might need a good attorney...


In Florida, and I would guess most states, there are increased penalties if the victim of exploitation is elderly.

Florida Statutes
Title XLVI
Chapter 825.103, 2a, b, and c...



2)(a) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $100,000 or more, the offender commits a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $20,000 or more, but less than $100,000, the offender commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult is valued at less than $20,000, the offender commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
 
Mike_Mason said:
This scenario, which may or may not be true, is unethical at least...and maybe illegal. If the woman, family member, or friend found out about it and she decided to press charges, the dealer might need a good attorney...


In Florida, and I would guess most states, there are increased penalties if the victim of exploitation is elderly.

Florida Statutes
Title XLVI
Chapter 825.103, 2a, b, and c...



2)(a) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $100,000 or more, the offender commits a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $20,000 or more, but less than $100,000, the offender commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult is valued at less than $20,000, the offender commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
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that's an even better reason to wait a few years before you try to sell the cue. 2-3 years and she'll forget she sold it and what she got for it.

depending on how old she is it might just be worth it to wait until she passes or is put in a home.

once again it's unethical but more than likely how the dealer ( and various others) would handle the situation
 
This is just stupid now.

Mike_Mason said:
This scenario, which may or may not be true, is unethical at least...and maybe illegal. If the woman, family member, or friend found out about it and she decided to press charges, the dealer might need a good attorney...


In Florida, and I would guess most states, there are increased penalties if the victim of exploitation is elderly.

Florida Statutes
Title XLVI
Chapter 825.103, 2a, b, and c...



2)(a) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $100,000 or more, the offender commits a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $20,000 or more, but less than $100,000, the offender commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult is valued at less than $20,000, the offender commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
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So it looks like if you are old and have some things of value, you legally have to get top dollar for them or someone is a criminal? I don't think the word "appraise" was written anywhere in the original post and as a "dealer", getting the cue as cheaply as posible would be the goal. She was offered $250 and she took $250, end of story. Snore Snore, you know what that is? It's me sleeping really heavy with an extra $24,750 in my pocket. Almost everyone on here seems to be like mother Theresa or something. It's unethical, it's this, it's that, yeah right. We all wish for a situation like this with property, old cars, antiques, whatever, and if you expect me to believe that a bunch of pool players would let a deal like this slip by or that you would save the old lady and search the earth for the guy that's going to give her the most $ for her cue, you're crazy. You guys are the same people that sit on the rail and kill action because it's unethical to let someone play with someone that is better than them. Now if you will excuse me, one of my elderly neighbors just croaked and I think his widow is a heavy drinker. Cha Ching.
 
Way to much info.

ShootingArts said:
If either of you had an IQ higher than a (deleted, as a courtesy to Mr. Wilson) or the reading comprehension of the average (deleted, as a courtesy to Mr. Wilson) you would have read and understood my sentence explaining why it was relevant. Elderly, black, and female took her to depression era or earlier small farm town USA. Odds are she was working in the fields before she was six and she would have been unlikely to attend school even had there been one for her to attend, also very unlikely. Most rural families of the time, rural black families in particular, saw no reason a girl should have a formal education. So yes being black elderly and female did almost guarantee she was illiterate and did not have the ability to research the rifle had she thought to do so. Those that think that being black, most definitely being black and female didn't matter in the 1910's and 1920's are living in fantasy. Sorry if my post bumped your delicate little noses into the real world. I'm not really sorry, ignorance and bias on the level you two indicate needs to be addressed.

Two of the smartest men I have ever met were elderly, black, and functionally illiterate products of our society in that era. Education was hard to come by and few people working in the fields saw any value in educating their children. If the boys got a couple years of school they were lucky. Girls were taught how to cook, clean, and sew at home. Working in the fields and being a stay at home wife was all that was expected of a girl.

PP, could you read and comprehend you would realize that the lady was considerably older than my friend. He had no way of knowing how long she had lived there, all of his life however and he was a lifelong resident of the town.

I have broken out the crayons to aid the clarity of my original post for those that find reading challenging. When I am referring to my male friend the color is blue. When I am referring to the lady the color is red. Hopefully this will aid those with vendettas in understanding that they have only made huge asses out of themselves once again.

Hu
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A simple " I have a lot of black friends" would have been fine.
 
riginally Posted by AtLarge
"Hypothetical" scenario.

A widow is disposing of some of her recently-deceased husband's possessions, including an old pool cue. The cue-ignorant widow is advised to contact Knowledgeable Cue Dealer (KCD) to discuss the cue. KCD goes to her house, inspects the cue, and asks her how much she wants for it. She says she doesn't know, it has just been lying around in the attic for most of the past 35 years, .............., how about $250? KCD pays her the money and leaves with the cue.

The next day, KCD calls one of his cue-collecting customers and sells the highly inlaid Balabushka cue for $25,000.

Was KCD unethical, just lucky, or something else?
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Seems to me the reason KCD was there was to place an estimated value on the cue

Total scumbag
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You guys are jumping to lots of conclusions.

1. Nobody said "KCD" was referred as an appraiser or advisor. He may have gone to her explicitly as a buyer, in which case he's entitled to make the best deal he can.

2. Just because she's a widow doesn't mean she's needy or even bereaved. She may be a rich nag who killed her late husband for the inheritance.

About 90 percent of this sad story is in your heads.

pj
chgo
 
poolplayer2093 said:
But here's the question now. Does he tell her what he sold the cue for after he gives her her jelly?
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No way that would be rubbing her face in it. If she had any children who knew anything about anything in billiards they could have told her to put it up on Ebay
 
why bother?

bumpypickle said:
A simple " I have a lot of black friends" would have been fine.
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Had I simply said I had a lot of black friends you would have continued to attack. The only reason you are acting reasonable now is that your ROE violations are documented and Dave has taken an interest in the thread. I explained things for the people that try to be rational and reasonable. You don't fall in that group.

Hu
 
Mirror mirror on the wall.

ShootingArts said:
Had I simply said I had a lot of black friends you would have continued to attack. The only reason you are acting reasonable now is that your ROE violations are documented and Dave has taken an interest in the thread. I explained things for the people that try to be rational and reasonable. You don't fall in that group.

Hu
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Do you ever wonder why you have no friends? Do you ever wonder why you always seem left out? Are the holidays a really lonely time for you? Have you ever wondered why people avoid conversation with you? Take a good long look at your posts and try to read them through a normal persons eyes. Not through the eyes of an elitist that thinks they're right about everything. You're so worried about sounding sophisticated on this forum that you can't see when someone is busting your balls. Were you always picked last for kickball?
 
ShootingArts said:
Had I simply said I had a lot of black friends you would have continued to attack. The only reason you are acting reasonable now is that your ROE violations are documented and Dave has taken an interest in the thread. I explained things for the people that try to be rational and reasonable. You don't fall in that group.

Hu
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I think you said everything that really needs to said, just thought I would say that I agree with you here, Hu.

I wonder how long we'll be allowed the presence of bumpypickle on our wonderful forum.

There are grey areas in morality, that being said, if I find a wallet with a lot of cash in it, I mail it back to the owner, cash included.

Someone did it for me once, now I'm just paying karma back.

bumpypickle said:
Do you ever wonder why you have no friends? Do you ever wonder why you always seem left out? Are the holidays a really lonely time for you? Have you ever wondered why people avoid conversation with you? Take a good long look at your posts and try to read them through a normal persons eyes. Not through the eyes of an elitist that thinks they're right about everything. You're so worried about sounding sophisticated on this forum that you can't see when someone is busting your balls. Were you always picked last for kickball?
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Ever wonder why ShootingArts is on the first page? Because he DOES have friends? Because people don't avoid conversation with him?

Newbs who come on here and bash longtime members of this forum are not new, but they rarely last very long.

Just a word of advice....take it or leave it.
 
If we're talking about someone who was quote "elderly" 20-25 years ago, and that person is black, we can probably assume that person wasn't given the same rights and opportunities as most of us, early in life.

Hu assuming that most black people weren't literate by the end of the 1900's, is not only sad, but true.

Many of the freed slaves still worked as (practically) indentured servants at that point, and would for years afterward.

Assuming that a 60-70 year old black woman is illiterate, 20 years ago is not an illogical argument. She wouldn't have been given the education as a child.

America, as it is now, is not the country it has always been. Hu was just making reference (imo) to times long past, when people "of color" were still limited in their opportunities.

Blacks in this day are free to pursue whatever they they can achieve, and more power to them. I'm just saying it wasn't always this way in the good old USA.

I think Hu was just making a reference of what that time was like, not saying that's the way it should be now.

JMO,
Michael
 
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