United State of Pool

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Why does it appear that the rest of the World has moved a step ahead of the players here in the US? Is it that our great players are past there prime? is it due to the cost of living here or something else. AOL and its debacle seem to have allot in common with the "United States of Pool", so why does it appear that we may be a notch below the rest of the world?
 
Island Drive said:
Why does it appear that the rest of the World has moved a step ahead of the players here in the US? Is it that our great players are past there prime? is it due to the cost of living here or something else. AOL and its debacle seem to have allot in common with the "United States of Pool", so why does it appear that we may be a notch below the rest of the world?

Discipline. Plain and simple.
 
Pool is not just a game!

One good reason this country has started to fall behind is, pool is still not recognized as a sport. Other countries have realized that it really is a sport and started having programs to promote the "sport" of pool while in school. Just look where the world nine ball champ started out in China. Hopefully sometime soon, this country will get in on the pool is a sport frame of mind.
 
gregoryg said:
One good reason this country has started to fall behind is, pool is still not recognized as a sport. Other countries have realized that it really is a sport and started having programs to promote the "sport" of pool while in school. Just look where the world nine ball champ started out in China. Hopefully sometime soon, this country will get in on the pool is a sport frame of mind.

I would agree with this; Lack of support.

I mean, look at how the majority of US players have to do to make money.
 
hi

i havent posted in a while,but im reading how the rest of the world is robbing the us .first of all i think the reason is country support.example players from some countries get certain amounts a month to live from government so they can practice and play in several events.when wu-cha-ching won world title he got a massive bonus from his country.if i win it im just going to get taxed.youget my point.lets look at some of the high finishers like dee adkins, he works a real hard job i believe doing constuction he has to do that because he has no sponsers,and believe me he plays like corey duell just ask corey.someone from alot of other countries that play like dee get money from gov and pampered like their the greatest thing on earth.the cost of living in us is high so alot of guys have to do something else to feed themselves.the reason the phillipinos dont have to do other things to make ends meet is because when they win 5000 in us thats enough to live on for awhile in their country.dont get me wrong their great players and nice people but their money takes them farther and their gov supports the hell out of them.myself for example i play golf and work with a friend that i live with to make money because i havent any sponsers .i see players from other countries with major sponsors and i would love to play them some 14.1,10ball,and onepocket for their sponsor money,as a matter a fact there is some us players with great sponsors that can get action too,they know who they are.also what cracks me up is when a pinoy comes over here the first thing americans do is put them up in their house,feed them,drive them everywhere,and then steer them around so they can win money off americans.believe me if i go to their country they arent going to do that.the reason we are not doing as good as people think we should is because we dont have any junior programs,we dont have many adults that are trying to get that great because up until the ipt their was no money.and the few adults like myself that are trying were getting no help from gov or billiard industry.instead i golf and work for money and i dont make much to speak of there either.anyway thats how i feel about some things and now im sure im going to get crucified by alot of people on here ,but hey im used to it by now.and yes i know i dont use proper punctuation and dont spellcheck but im to busy golfing and working to do that right also.bye for now
 
john schmidt said:
anyway thats how i feel about some things and now im sure im going to get crucified by alot of people on here ,but hey im used to it by now.
Your not gonna get crucified by me John. I agree with you.

If what your saying is true (I have no reason to believe it isnt, your a pro Im not) then we have no incentives other then taxed prize money. If other governments support there players like that, why cant the US government?

However, the only downside to this is the government wanting to make up for what they are giving out. Other things might go up, like taxes and such.

I think it would be great to be able to be pampered by your government if you decide to represent them in World Tournaments. However with the US not embracing billiards like England or the Phillipines, I doubt it will ever happen.
 
Icon of Sin said:
Your not gonna get crucified by me John. I agree with you.

If what your saying is true (I have no reason to believe it isnt, your a pro Im not) then we have no incentives other then taxed prize money. If other governments support there players like that, why cant the US government?

However, the only downside to this is the government wanting to make up for what they are giving out. Other things might go up, like taxes and such.

I think it would be great to be able to be pampered by your government if you decide to represent them in World Tournaments. However with the US not embracing billiards like England or the Phillipines, I doubt it will ever happen.

I wouldn't crucify John either, being a professional pool player is a tough way to make a living. On the other hand, our government doesn't really support any athletes unless you include what they do for the olympic team, but that isn't much. Pool players can hardly expect support from them. Personally, I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of our government supporting ordinary working people down on their luck. When the government provides proper and useful retraining for people whose jobs have been outsourced, then they can worry about pool players.
Sorry John, I understand your plight, but it is no worse than the plight of a couple of my sons who are excellent artists. I'd put their artistic ability on a par with your pool playing ability and they have to take what jobs they can get, keep plugging at their painting, and hope they get "discovered". In addition to that there are lots of well trained physicists, chemists, mathmaticians, etc. who do work very unrelated to the field they are trained in. It is just the way of a free market society. Furthermore, even if the government helped out some pool players, I'd bet it would still only be what some bureacrat define as the "cream of the crop" which would be a very small percentage of the players. Maybe the top filopinos are getting support, but I'd bet not many and they're not coming over hear because there is a great living to be made in the Philipines. They'd rather stay home I'm sure. It's a "hard knock world" John and in some disciplines the knock is harder than in others.
Good luck with your future in pool, you're good enough to deserve the best.
 
Blackjack said:
Discipline. Plain and simple.


Your right David, just look at the finalists from the IPT event, their entire game is based on great discipline.
 
Desire,Discipline,Willingness to learn,Practice with purpose,the will to be great at what you do and some talent. Sports or buisness it's the same. The will and dedication to commit to my goals 100%..to give my all. If you live by these rules, at the very least you will do real well in pool and in life.

I think the 9 ball only mentality over the last 25 years has hurt the U.S. players... 9 ball takes limited imagination and limited thinking. You know how to play straight pool and rotation you will be a much better player at 8 ball.

If you are looking to the government for your success... oh boy.
 
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Great post, Albert!

catscradle said:
I wouldn't crucify John either, being a professional pool player is a tough way to make a living.
and JS is certainly at the top of the skill pyramid.

catscradle said:
I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of our government supporting ordinary working people
I don't think pool players should be taken care of before our teachers, police, etc...

catscradle said:
It is just the way of a free market society...
Some choose to work for a living, some choose to play. For the majority, playing ain't paying.
 
Incentive

Incentive.

All other needed attributes aside from natural talent come from incentive.

Why play pool in the US?

The general public will consider you less than respectable. The money stinks compared to almost anything if you look at net at the end of the year. It is one of the most high risk occupations in terms of personal safety.

Compare that to government programs and societies that look up to a pool or billiard player.

We only now have a faint glimmer of a real reason to play pool in the US. If the IPT or a similar tour survives look for the skill levels of our younger players just coming onto major tours to soar in a few years. Look for our current players to adapt rapidly too. They have new incentive also.

Hu
 
Everyone is going to have to be patient. Till now 9 ball has been king in the U.S. There is enough money in the IPT to motivate players to play 8 ball exclusively in order to prepare for the IPT. How much does a regional 9 ball tourney pay for first? Maybe a grand, maybe 2 grand. No one can play pool all the time for that kind of money.

The Americans that will do well will be the ones who can get enough financial support to play pool full time win or loose. They will also have to play 8 ball under IPT conditions and forget about these small time regional tours. I would expect at least four Americans will be getting to the later rounds on a regular basis by the end of 2007.

It will take time, money and alot of practice.
 
John...it's much more complex than that...

john schmidt said:
i havent posted in a while,but im reading how the rest of the world is robbing the us .first of all i think the reason is country support.example players from some countries get certain amounts a month to live from government so they can practice and play in several events.when wu-cha-ching won world title he got a massive bonus from his country.if i win it im just going to get taxed.youget my point.lets look at some of the high finishers like dee adkins, he works a real hard job i believe doing constuction he has to do that because he has no sponsers,and believe me he plays like corey duell just ask corey.someone from alot of other countries that play like dee get money from gov and pampered like their the greatest thing on earth.the cost of living in us is high so alot of guys have to do something else to feed themselves.the reason the phillipinos dont have to do other things to make ends meet is because when they win 5000 in us thats enough to live on for awhile in their country.dont get me wrong their great players and nice people but their money takes them farther and their gov supports the hell out of them.myself for example i play golf and work with a friend that i live with to make money because i havent any sponsers .i see players from other countries with major sponsors and i would love to play them some 14.1,10ball,and onepocket for their sponsor money,as a matter a fact there is some us players with great sponsors that can get action too,they know who they are.also what cracks me up is when a pinoy comes over here the first thing americans do is put them up in their house,feed them,drive them everywhere,and then steer them around so they can win money off americans.believe me if i go to their country they arent going to do that.the reason we are not doing as good as people think we should is because we dont have any junior programs,we dont have many adults that are trying to get that great because up until the ipt their was no money.and the few adults like myself that are trying were getting no help from gov or billiard industry.instead i golf and work for money and i dont make much to speak of there either.anyway thats how i feel about some things and now im sure im going to get crucified by alot of people on here ,but hey im used to it by now.and yes i know i dont use proper punctuation and dont spellcheck but im to busy golfing and working to do that right also.bye for now

John...I'm not gonna "crucify" you, but you are very misinformed about how people live in the Phillipines. There is NO government support of pool. The top pros, like Efren, Bustamante, and a few select others, are paid privately by Puyat, who is a wealthy Phillipine businessman. The government has nothing to do with it. Yes, there is a lot of respect, nationally, for players like Bata and Django, but it does not extend to financial support. You are correct that the standard of living is a lot lower there, and as such, money goes a lot farther. However, there are many more people living in abject poverty there, than there are here in the U.S. The Phillipines, by-in-large, is a 'third world country', and cannot even be compared to the United States. They also do not live in a democracy like we have, and their citizens can be subject to their 'secret police', if you don't agree with the "party line".

Sponsorship in professional pool is based on one thing...public perception. Here in the U.S., the perception is that pool is a "second-hand" sport, and commonly associated with hustling and gambling (which it is, to a significant degree), and populated by legions of players who would "cheat their grandma" given the opportunity. True or not, too many players do nothing to dismiss this perception, and many even try to play it up (not pointing fingers at anyone in particular). Every top cuemaker out there has been ripped off by "big name" players...which is why there isn't even much cue sponsorship available to our pro players. It's another ding in the image of the game. As such, corporate America wants little or nothing to do with pool, at this time. That may change...only time will tell. The IPT is truly a "level playing field" opportunity for ANYONE to try their hand at playing pro. All you have to do is come up with the entry, and then play GOOD! Props to KT for putting up the big dough to make it happen. I only hope he makes millions from it, so that it continues forever!

The players getting sponsored in Europe or Asia, have made the attitude changes, and demonstrated the discipline necessary and desired, to move their game to where it needs to be, to pay off. American players, again, by-in-large, are lazy, and don't want to put out that kind of effort. I think if you really take a hard look at poolplayers here in the USA, you have to agree with me. Pool has never been much of a steady payday, with the exception of exhibition players like me. So, the smart pros have either figured out a niche, or work at something else to pay their bills, and play pool on the side. Truth is, there could be 100+ people out there, playing pool exclusively for a living, all making six figures (even without the IPT), right here in the U.S....if they had the right attitude. The work is there! I'm not really saying, "quit crying in your beer!", but quit crying in your beer! LOL Work hard, change the image (at least for yourself...and I know you're trying to do that), and play your best game always! Hopefully the rolls will go your way on some days, and YOU'LL get the big payday! Best of luck to you!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
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Uh..no national tour to make a living on. Especially one just for Americans, like the San Miguel tour is just for Asians. There just isn't a ladder system to work your way up on.

Andy
Non touring pro
 
I was told (by a business man in Taiwan) that kids in Taiwan take classes in school to learn how to play pool. This may partially explain those young Chinese and Taiwan guns.
Jack
www.johnmaddencues.com
 
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I know that finding sponsors are difficult. However, the sponsors are out there. It is a player's job to convince them for sponsorships. There are a lot of pool players who don't play as well as John that get sponsor(s). These sponsors are not going to go out of their way to sponsor someone. Therefore, it's a player's job to convince them to support you. If you are not capable, you should get an agent.

John
 
Without a proper platform here in the states there is no way to showcase one's talents in the proper venue (till now hopefully) plus our society does not see the game like it did during the years Mosconi or Hoppe' were in their prime.
 
The "Dingy Pool Room" Perception

As long as the public perception of pool and poolplayers matches up to the pool rooms and players of the Johnston City days and scenes from "The Hustler" and "The Color Of Money", potential sponsors will look to other sports to invest in.

I am afraid it will take many years and maybe even a generation before that perception changes.

John Schmidt looks and acts like a professional athlete. More guys like him will attract sponsors to the sport.
 
Blackjack said:
Discipline. Plain and simple.
I agree.

We have the same problem with 3 cushion. The US at one time produced the best in the world at this game. To the point above
3 Cushion is harder for beginner to visualize a shot much less make one. Many folks feel the game is harder than pool which I disagree execpt in this one area. So to the beginner it looks too hard and therefore they never try it.

In Europe and Asia there are millions who play carom games. In this country there's only a handful, like 1 in 100,000.

The good news here: If you want to be one of the best in the USA at something. Take up 3C.
 
from what I hear the biggest rip-off of cue makers is a Philippine player.I also don't think Mr. Schmidt is saying Philippines get gov money.The current world champ will get money for the rest of his life from the Taiwanese gov.I think many of the things mentioned contribute to the international players dominating.The only thing I know for sure is that it has nothing to do with race religion or nationality.
 
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