Unknown "monster" players

[pvc lou]

Joe Rocha was a great player, had a ton of gamble too .

Can you tell us some joe rocha stories? His wife, alice, is still around. Very nice lady

 

[westcoast]

it;s pretty hard to be an unknown monster player playing nine or ten ball on a big table. Frankly it takes too much time to stay in stroke and working guys just don't have that much time. You can be an unknown monster playing One Pocket as the requirements are much different. Playing smart and safety play don't require the specialized ball striking skills the rotation games require. An example of this is Richie Grienier out of Los Angeles playing one pocket. He plays very well and it takes a top player to come into his house and beat him.

I agree about Rich. I've watched him play at the House of Billiards. Great one pocket player. He isn't really unknown. Seems like everybody in the LA area knows he is one of the best one pocket players around. I've never known him to play 9 or 10 ball but he would probably be good at those games too if he choose to focus on them.

 

[Henry W]

No disrespect to Rich Geiler, but here is a funny story, and how I heard it.

Everyone knows Rich the Hat has a strong game, and that he also has a stutter. (no disrespect Rich)

Dave played him and beat him in a tournament. After a few words back and forth, Rich said something along the lines of..

"You ccccomme up to PPpportland, and I'll play you for Fi-Ffi-Fi-Fi-Five thousand!!"

Without missing a beat, David said "Rich, I'm not going to play you for 25,000... I don't have that kind of money!" I'm sure he had that signature giggle right behind it!

Anyhow, that's the story told to me, and I don't even care if it's accurate... Too funny!

I was at that tournament it was at the Hunt and Fish in Beaverton and David was in dead stroke and won the tournament and no one got more than 2 games on him. The story is true except David said $40,000. Soon after he went to LA and beat Earl 11 to 2 in a tournament. I was in with Kenny Dodd when David played Dave Piona in Seattle and he didn't just beat Piona he massacred him. When David was in gear he didn't just beat people he massacred then and it was fast. Him and Keith played the best 9 ball I ever seen.

 

[JoeyA]

Jackjaw, what a name............

Like the story.
JoeyA

I have told this story a handful of times but it belongs in this thread. May be, but a search didn't turn it up. I was running a dirt track late model and a usually friendly competitor was Bobby S, Jackjaw. We were both out of work and he called me to help him on a few day job he had been offered, swapping transmissions on some ten wheel over the road tractors in a gravel parking lot. He figured we could do it with a standard floor jack I had and a piece of half inch plywood he had. I shudder now just thinking about probably a thousand pounds of transmission on that little six inch or less jack plate. With one of us laying in the gravel either side of the jack a transmission would have crushed one of us like a grape had it fell off the jack!

We had dropped two transmissions on the ground that day working from early to about five. Couldn't see much but our eyeballs after working under those old trucks with the whole undercarriage covered with dirt and grease and every muscle was so sore I felt like I had been beaten with an ugly elephant. Bobby didn't have any wheels and lived 25-30 miles away. On the way to his house we passed the three-way lounge. Had a few pool tables there and a pit in the woods out back where most arguments were settled. Often half the bar emptied out to watch a fight and they had everything but chairs and waitresses back there, did have a couple chairs come to think of it. Most importantly they had cold beer, very cold!

I'm racking the balls on a seven foot Valley for the first game when two guys came up wanting to play partners for a beer each. "Sure." They won the coin toss and one broke dry. Bobby, stone cold and after pulling wrenches and wrassling eighteen wheeler transmissions all day which was guaranteed to tie your arms in knots, ran out that rack from their break and then ran seven more racks before I got up. Before an hour was up I had shot twice and had thirteen beers in front of me.

We were supposed to be making seventy-five each for every transmission swap, brutal work. As we went out the door I said "Bobby, we gotta talk". Took a day to round up a little pocket change, got stiffed on the transmission work on top of everything else, and then me and Bobby went for a ride.

Made a double handful of short few day trips over the next six months or so but Bobby had a hard time remembering he was married on the road and his wife was a pretty good shot with a pistol or his old Winchester 30-30 western style carbine. I used to cut the engine and coast by his house and drop him in front of the woods just past it. I was partying just as hard but I was single. After a couple close calls I decided I didn't want to get shot over Bobby's partying and I shut things down. A 30-30 can leave a nasty hole!

We hooked up partners off and on for years until Bobby got into a lot of hot water, they thought he was either the knife man or a witness to a killing that happened at the three-way. A man Bobby and several others had been playing pool with earlier was killed and robbed for less than a thousand dollars. Bobby had to pull a fade and went to Texas, the classic GTT.

Years later we met a few times again but never hooked up for a little rambling again. Oddly enough since it was a low dive miles from either of our homes, the story started and ended at the three-way, perhaps the most dangerous bar within fifty miles but a hopping place on the weekends when they had a country band and the piney woods emptied out to come there.

Since every cowboy knows he is a lover, fighter, and pool playing son of a gun, the pickings were easy on the challenge tables as long as you didn't get greedy and try for a big bite. On the quieter nights whoever you were playing usually wanted to double up and catch up at the end of the night and might try that a few times. Played fifty a game eight ball on a Valley a bunch of times and a hundred a game a few times. Pretty sporty in the early seventies when minimum wage was a buck and a quarter and most of the guys on the table were working for that.

Jackjaw was loud and talked a lot, to people, tables, and pool balls. He drew action to him like a magnet. Had a sister who played pretty strong for a lady in those days too.

I miss the days when I could jump in the truck with a little scotchbrite or small piece of sandpaper and a brad tip tool in the watch pocket of my jeans, twenty bucks seed money, and plan on being gone a week or more. Gas at fifty cents a gallon or less and knowing the tricks of living cheap on the road made a lot of things possible.

Hu

 

[ceebee]

We had a guy come through Tulsa one night, at Magoos a few months ago. I believe it was a Sunday. They lined up to play him, but they all came away with a loss. No one ever got his name.

While he ran racks like it was practice, some of his competitors ran a few too. Nothing phased him...

 

[ShootingArts]

"jackjaw"

Jackjaw, what a name............
Like the story.
JoeyA

Joey,

Jackjaw came from the old bumper jacks. When they got worn out sometimes they would go full auto lowering a vehicle even if you weren't trying to lower it. Bobby talking ninety miles an hour reminded some people of those old bumper jacks going full auto and ratcheting down rapidly. Ratchet jaw was another name you may remember for talkers back then.

I once saw a short fat completely bald fellow making hard work of jacking up a car with one of the old bumper jacks. He was standing directly in front of it and using one of the long "L" shaped lug wrenches as the handle as was intended. A hot summer's day and he was soaked with sweat wearing his Sunday go to meeting suit pants and tie, he had taken his jacket off. When the handle slipped out of his sweat slicked hand he was bent over fighting to jack up the car. The jack started ratcheting down on it's own and the handle went full auto whacking him over the head. Must have hit him at least twenty or thirty times, dead center of that bald head. When it finally stopped he fell backwards onto his butt. I couldn't help it, it was so cartoonish I laughed out loud. Had to hurt a lot. He sat there a few minutes then went back to it though.

I'm sure you know "Jackjaw" can have two meanings, jacking somebody's jaw meant clobbering them too. Bobby wasn't a big fellow but he was pretty quick with his fists or a knife. He jacked many a jaw back then.

He was supposed to drive a new dirt track late model for a man one year and "Jackjaw" was what was painted over the driver's door. First race of the year the car owner got a chance to get a hot dog driver from Mississippi and put him in the car. Jackjaw was furious and begged my owner to drive the late model I was driving. I warned my owner not to do it, Bobby wouldn't care if he did major damage to Jr's car while getting even with Stan.

I owed the car owner Bobby was mad at a favor myself and when opportunity knocked I put his new car into the wall hard! Paybacks for a $150 bad check and almost getting me and Bobby shot as thieves one night picking up something I had bought from Stan. Only minor detail, Stan didn't own the truck bed we were picking up! The owner was pointing one of the semi-auto .308 deer rifles at our chests from about eighteen inches while we were silly enough to argue with him telling him what had happened. The law came and things calmed down. I bought the truck bed from the owner and made Stan write a check for what he owed me when I caught him in a group of people at the track. That was the bad check I paid back that night when I turned his car into the wall. A gentle tap at the wrong time on his car's left front when the driver was already a bit out of control slammed the car head on into a steel wall and I didn't even scuff the paint on the car I was driving. Jackjaw came and thanked me afterwards. I of course claimed it was just racing and I was as innocent as a newborn babe.

Just a little old time rock n' roll. Dirt tracking may have created more funny stories than pool and as you know pool back in the day created a lot of funny stories. I miss both lately, got to warm up the stick.

Hu

 

[bigpin22]

Pittsburg Mike

I don't recognize Tommy Rocco, but I do know Jerry Brock was a top notch player until he had do do some time. Mike Painter, AKA "Pittsburgh Mike" was actually from Pittsburgh, Kansas. (correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I am.)

Dick

Pittsburg Mike was from Pittsburg Kansas and later played out of Oklahoma City. He supposedly had a millionaire backer and frequently played many of the legends of pool such as Ronnie Allen, Grady Mathews, St. Louis Louie etc. high dollar onepocket and golf. He ended up with some neck problems and other issues and was never quite the same.

 

[bstroud]

Interesting post.

Most of you know me as a cue maker but before that in the 60's I traveled all over the US hustling pool.

I never gave anyone my name and in the East I was called "Colorado" after my auto tags. In Chicago it was "Short Pants" because I wore shorts most of the time.

I played almost everyone I met even anything and would put my win/loss record up against anyone.

Played Don McCoy and Ken McCoy many times. They were both good players.

Bill S.

 

[old fart]

norm hitchcock from OKC was a champion who no one has heard of Today

 

[bigpin22]

Pittsburg Mike has told me many stories of Norm Hitchcock.

 

[ERIC MOREMAN]

i know a pizza delivery guy here in ohio that plays jam up!

i play pool at kings of billiards akron ohio 3306443985 they have the best money
players in the the world and the pizza guy from can't beat the players from kings of billiards akron ohio.

 

[billy]

what ever happened to howard vickery

 

[Kid Dynomite]

what ever happened to howard vickery

I don't think it turned out too good for Howard vickery !

Do a search and it will reveal some very troubling details! Don't want to spread any more rumors then necessary!

Kd
Mike Wilson

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Johnny Rosato]

Players who are largely "unknown" but possess close to champion speed? Would love to hear some stories. I will throw one name out there as an example(Vernon Elliot). He doesn't play anymore, but when he did, he was a "monster". Some of you know him and his reputation. would like to hear about him and any others that you know. Not trying to knock any action, I'm talking mainly about the "old timers".

I have a 2001 Rick Howard Ebony/BEM. It's an old school style "MONSTER" player and it hits a "ton" !!! (not for sale)

 

[woodyosborne]

Anybody remember a guy from Hazard Ky.. Sid Hurl? I was really young when i saw him play..and best i can remember he was a monster!!
I know The Beard and Bunny Remember him i talked with them about him at the Derby this year.Both said he was incredibly strong barbox 9er. Just wondering if anyone else had any stories about him?:thumbup:

By the way he passed away a couple of months ago..from a long sickness..R.I.P Sid i know my buddy Bob will miss you as will most of the players in Eastern Ky. My condolences to Ricky his son and the rest of the family...

i remember sid hurl from the dens of iniquity in hazard. no other name for them!!!!!!!!! I know cornbread red went into the poolrooms down there and it may have been sid that told everybody they did NOT want any of that old man. that I believe was in the early 90's around the time sid went to florida.

 

[Black-Balled]

I know who you are and I won't leak the name.

But I gotta tell you, I know a guy who robs him. They play every year, April 12, and your guy always loses.

Thanks JoeyA. I enjoy your commentary, especially on one pocket matches.

I've been around the pro pool scene since 1985. I've played one pocket against Steve Cook, Jose Parica, Grady Matthews, Bugs Rucker, Reyes and a host of other great players. As well as some great rotation players who quit after a few games and said "one pocket sucks". lol I don't play in tournaments, but in my hustling days I used to show up a couple of weeks after the big pro tournaments. That way, no one would suspect me of playing very well.

The reason I relate the above info, is because I think I may know the greatest, or for sure one of the greatest unknown monsters of all time, who is still unknown. See, the problem with most of the people named in this thread, is that they are known. This guy is known by very, very few. Even most players he has beat, don't really know how good he plays. Thats what made Vernon Elliot so great, he could play a duck for three days and never run more that two, or three balls. This guy is like Vernon Jr. No, its not me, but I wish I had his talent. Not only at billiards, but at the art of the con.

I met him over twenty years ago and he is still in top form today. I was new in town and knew none of the players from the area. I found a decent pool room with a pro shop and some nice Gold Crowns. He walks in and strikes up a conversation, he asks if I'm a pro golfer, bowler, pool player? I say no. He asks if I want to play 9-ball. I say I'm no good and don't own a cue. He says he has no cue either. We grab the balls and house cues. We agree to play for $5 a rack, Texas Express rules, which he had to explain to me. I win the flip, break, don't make anything and he runs out like Strickland. Then he breaks and runs out, in the next six games I had two kick shots and fouled once. So I'm eight games loser, having only shot three times. In the ninth game he hangs up the seven ball and gets very angry. He grabs the 7,8 and 9 and racks the balls and moves the coin. I hit a full force Mike Sigel break and don't make anything, because he had put a house rack on me. He promptly runs out that rack, then breaks and runs out two more in a row. I quit and handed him a fifty.

So, needless to say, I was impressed and perplexed by his hustling style. Who is this guy? Why would he run out like that on a potential duck? Anyway, in the interest of brevity, it was in the hopes that I would chase my money. Sort of like the JoeyA one-pocket rule of 'get ahead, stay ahead'. He was hoping that I came back with my cue and tried to high roll him. Which I unfortunately did. We have been fast friends ever since though and he is the best I've ever seen. Maybe not quite as good as Vernon, but he plays dead even(at certain times, beyond) with Nick Varner and almost no one has heard of him.

I might as well get to the bad news. He still wishes to remain undercover. There are people who know him, as he is getting close to sixty now, but as far as I know, the only people who know his true speed keep it a secret.

One day I shall write a book of our adventures. I think some will find it quite entertaining. :smile:

 

[GreenFeltguy]

Used to run with Sean Azares in 80s, smart. Some good stories about Sean in The Green Felt Jungle !

 

[Black-Balled]

Used to run with Sean Azares in 80s, smart. Some good stories about Sean in The Green Felt Jungle !

He and browning set up camp in my growin up room...browning learned to play real well, by the time he left!

Probably the best cash 9b I have seen played, but he wasn't running on the same gas as the rest.

I don't think Sean played any pool at all. Had a white limo. They were boxing promoters:wink:&

 

[btown]

Used to run with Sean Azares in 80s, smart. Some good stories about Sean in The Green Felt Jungle !

Sean Azares if thats how you spell it lived with us for several months when I was only around 6 years old..

One hell of a guy, he would do card tricks for my brother and I.

Him and Keith Mccready was at the house one day arguing over what was better lefties or righties and since we loved Sean so much we ended up playing left handed even tho we are both right handers!

My dad was a good player but he knew he couldn't beat Sean.. Sean was simply the best to us!

Also his rack was like hitting a solid boulder!.

 

[DoubleA]

Used to run with Sean Azares in 80s, smart. Some good stories about Sean in The Green Felt Jungle !

Sean was an absolute champion 8 ball player