Very pissed!!

When I wanted to get a basic straight sneaky, this is where I went. Free shipping when you spend 50 bucks... so you can spend an extra 20 on the cue. I have played with 3 of these cues and all three were straight. No complaints. AND apparently they recently started a manufacturer guarantee against defects.

http://www.ozonebilliards.com/plcuesnpecow.html
 
When I wanted to get a basic straight sneaky, this is where I went. Free shipping when you spend 50 bucks... so you can spend an extra 20 on the cue. I have played with 3 of these cues and all three were straight. No complaints. AND apparently they recently started a manufacturer guarantee against defects.

http://www.ozonebilliards.com/plcuesnpecow.html


Thanks for the heads up but I live in Canada so Im sure there would be a shipping charge.
 
The price is not the point, the point is how ****ing shady people are.

Did you expect anything less from some random website, especially when it has HUSTLER in it's name :). Nothing says Class like selling a product called "Dirty *****." Seriously though, It took me 30 seconds of looking at that page to realize they were a scam. The site looks like a 3 year old designed it.

I guess they think that by offering TWO whole viking cues for sale that they will look reputable. Ohhh maybe I'll get a set of "Cloned" Aramith Pro Billiard Balls, or some "Chalk Infused" Cue Tips for .33 cents. Better yet maybe I'll buy a knife from one of their affiliates, or a Water to Air Intercooler Kit for my Corolla. :)


Jesus its like no one reads the whole post, ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY BUT THE PRINCIPAL OF THE MATTER

Should people be honest and give you the product they advertised for the price they advertised? Yes they should, but that doesn't always happen. Welcome to life, there are a lot of people out there trying to make money by ripping people off, especially online. One look at that site, and you should have ran far away. There are many good websites to buy from, Ozone Billiards, Pool Dawg, Cheap Cues.com, just to name a few, why buy it from some random site that nobody has ever heard of? You can get a decent cue on those sites I mentioned for $50-$60.

At the end of the day ask your-self this: Is it worth potentially getting scammed to save 20 - 30 bucks? While I agree with you in principle thats about it. As much as it sucks, as others have said "You Get What You Pay For!"

End Rant!
 
Last edited:
i still believe in Santa [and i'm Jewish, ain't that a kick????]

i have a bunch of really nice [i think] 2-pc cues with ss joint... i will send you one for you wife in a cheap pink case, the only requirement is you must 'pay it forward'...

it is shameful 'at any price' to be cheated, and you were.

Smokey, I like your style!
 
said it earlier but man I'm in typing stroke for real....can't help myself

The real problems with cheap cues such as the really crappy qualtiy house cues and junker2pc cues at a brand new price around "might as well be free" is not that they constructed it wrong:confused:.... i bet that cue was straight for a little while (one second at least lol) just like the new house cues are for a moment. Then they warp drastically b/c of moisture exchange and lower quality/improperly processed wood....

The natural qualitys of the wood isn't omnipotent in regards to how straight it'll stay(High GPI guarantees nothing in maple shafts, nor does high figure mean it will move necessarily for example)How it was cut,dried,de-stressed is what matters. Old growth wood is better b/c its naturally more stable right off the tree b/f cutting/drying etc its been sitting there and its "memory" and orientation was set long long ago. Newer wood is younger and hasn't even stopped growing and moving, its still not set in its ways. Not to mention growth chemicals used to up production may make the trees grow bigger more quickly and are too close to each other creating a type of malnourishment (sort of a specialized super miracle grow ) its bonds and structure are much weaker than their centuries old forefathers. This is especially obvious by the fact that invasive boring insects affect mostly younger trees as opposed to very old ones....the wood is too dense for many of them to do enough damage to kill the tree, but younger ones can be wiped out.


You can season cheaper wood and it'll hold, but when you just buy some bulk wood good or bad quality and just throw them in a lathe and turn out a cue in a new york minute then ship it to places with differient climates the wood FREAKS THE HELL OUT!:eek:

Its may not be bad construction but its always bad craftsmanship. A cue can keep its straightness if it wasn't quite seasoned really well/destressed IF you were patient in turning down the wood as long as the climate is relatively stable especially in regards to humidity swings. Wood is really sensitive to its surroundings if it still has any internal stress what so ever, IT WILL SHIFT when subjected to sudden climate and again especially humidity changes.

Wood has to have water to be able to move, it is a rigid set structure without it. The higher the % of moisture the greater its ability to shift to relieve its internal stresses. The better sealed the cue is the more shift proof it is. I make especially sure to seal the wrap groove on the cue, and more importantly the end grain under the bumper and inside the joint if any is exposed to the atmosphere. Water giving wood the ability to move is what wooden ship/boat building (skiffs, old cutter style ships, Pirogues,etc)relies upon.

The wood is dry when the ship is constructed in a tight tolerance fashion, once the boat is complete and placed in water the water SWELLS the pores and the seams of the planks are compressed shut and water proof. Even cedar shingle roofs work off this principle. So as a cue builder we must know that wood wants to move untill its stresses are neutralized so we must take that into consideration when planning to build a cue if any kind of descent success is expected.
I've seen brand new cues from reputable makers of high skill(seriously)go from say the western states such as arizona or cali to down south to Louisiana or say Florida and they are DEAD straight, then it could be a few days or a week or two and the dam cue warps....b/c of climate shock. It'll split Ivory, warp wood, loosen connections etc.

I highly advise those ordering cues from a very diffierent climate than their own to either plan delivery when the climates are in close relation and will be stable for an extended time. Say ordering from the midwest to the swamp of florida i wouldn't want it in the middle of summer. The midwest is dry and florida is as humid as it gets like louisiana. I would get it delivered in the winter when the air is dryer in florida.

This is also a good reason to have stable climate when storing cues. The best storage would come in the form of a humidity controlled box just like cigars...(maybe I'm wrong but didn't someone build a cue-midor on here some time ago?)

It would be one thing if the crap cue just had a nasty taper style and bad balance or feel. But if it was straight then all that can be overlooked.

People don't realize how much wood the good production companies have to have back stocked and seasoning/drying/stabilizing to do what they do, that even goes for custom makers (just not nearly as much but still lots and lots are needed to build a good river of wood like deickman says lol) It is very hard to get wood that is not super duper seasoned and old to never move again.

I believe this is the reason why we get new cues from even the likes of Schon or McDermott and other quality productions and some customs that when rolled on the rail the tip moves somewhat, but when rolled on the table flat it doesn't show. The wood moved minutely somewhere in one or more places in the cue. It doesn't take but a hair of movement to make that tip roll a 1/4" off on the rail....thats why its so darn rare to have a cue, that when rolled with the butt on the table and the joint on the rail, the tip does not move at all. Most all cues have moved to some extent...If your lucky enough to have one that flatlines and is perfectly perfect then i suggest you take the best of care of such a rarity.

I've owned McDermotts, Schons, Hueblers, Palmers, Adams, Predator in production and customs from over a dozen makers...total cues I ever had is around 40 I'd say. ONLY ONE OF THOSE NEVER MOVED AND IS THE PICTURE OF LINEAR PERFECTION, straight is not even a good enough word. When I include all the cues I've seen/held/borrowed/owned etc...and rolled like I described that number has to be close to a thousand and I may be underestimating. Of that huge group only one other cue stayed perfect(I mean 100% perfect too), so 2 out of 1000+/- :yikes:

Most of the cues when rolled flat on the table surface rolled straight tho. And when rail tested many moved within reasonable tolerances which I consider to be definately 3/8" or under and rather see just an 1/8 of movement on the tip. The less it moves the more perfectly concentric it is from end to end.

But basically so long as the tip doesn't jump off the table bed when the cue is rolled flat, then its not going to be an kind of issue. The rail roll test is just a finer test thats just more accurate and precise at showing you a more detailed result on the condition of the cue.

Rolling flat on the table is better for checking the individual sections for warpage, rolling the cue with the butt on the bed and joint on top the cusion is better suited to check the total package.

there's straight and then theres straight,
Grey Ghost:nanner:
 
The real problems with cheap cues such as the really crappy qualtiy house cues and junker2pc cues at a brand new price around "might as well be free" is not that they constructed it wrong:confused:.... i bet that cue was straight for a little while (one second at least lol) just like the new house cues are for a moment. Then they warp drastically b/c of moisture exchange and lower quality/improperly processed wood....

The natural qualitys of the wood isn't omnipotent in regards to how straight it'll stay(High GPI guarantees nothing in maple shafts, nor does high figure mean it will move necessarily for example)How it was cut,dried,de-stressed is what matters. Old growth wood is better b/c its naturally more stable right off the tree b/f cutting/drying etc its been sitting there and its "memory" and orientation was set long long ago. Newer wood is younger and hasn't even stopped growing and moving, its still not set in its ways. Not to mention growth chemicals used to up production may make the trees grow bigger more quickly and are too close to each other creating a type of malnourishment (sort of a specialized super miracle grow ) its bonds and structure are much weaker than their centuries old forefathers. This is especially obvious by the fact that invasive boring insects affect mostly younger trees as opposed to very old ones....the wood is too dense for many of them to do enough damage to kill the tree, but younger ones can be wiped out.


You can season cheaper wood and it'll hold, but when you just buy some bulk wood good or bad quality and just throw them in a lathe and turn out a cue in a new york minute then ship it to places with differient climates the wood FREAKS THE HELL OUT!:eek:

Its may not be bad construction but its always bad craftsmanship. A cue can keep its straightness if it wasn't quite seasoned really well/destressed IF you were patient in turning down the wood as long as the climate is relatively stable especially in regards to humidity swings. Wood is really sensitive to its surroundings if it still has any internal stress what so ever, IT WILL SHIFT when subjected to sudden climate and again especially humidity changes.

Wood has to have water to be able to move, it is a rigid set structure without it. The higher the % of moisture the greater its ability to shift to relieve its internal stresses. The better sealed the cue is the more shift proof it is. I make especially sure to seal the wrap groove on the cue, and more importantly the end grain under the bumper and inside the joint if any is exposed to the atmosphere. Water giving wood the ability to move is what wooden ship/boat building (skiffs, old cutter style ships, Pirogues,etc)relies upon.

The wood is dry when the ship is constructed in a tight tolerance fashion, once the boat is complete and placed in water the water SWELLS the pores and the seams of the planks are compressed shut and water proof. Even cedar shingle roofs work off this principle. So as a cue builder we must know that wood wants to move untill its stresses are neutralized so we must take that into consideration when planning to build a cue if any kind of descent success is expected.
I've seen brand new cues from reputable makers of high skill(seriously)go from say the western states such as arizona or cali to down south to Louisiana or say Florida and they are DEAD straight, then it could be a few days or a week or two and the dam cue warps....b/c of climate shock. It'll split Ivory, warp wood, loosen connections etc.

I highly advise those ordering cues from a very diffierent climate than their own to either plan delivery when the climates are in close relation and will be stable for an extended time. Say ordering from the midwest to the swamp of florida i wouldn't want it in the middle of summer. The midwest is dry and florida is as humid as it gets like louisiana. I would get it delivered in the winter when the air is dryer in florida.

This is also a good reason to have stable climate when storing cues. The best storage would come in the form of a humidity controlled box just like cigars...(maybe I'm wrong but didn't someone build a cue-midor on here some time ago?)

It would be one thing if the crap cue just had a nasty taper style and bad balance or feel. But if it was straight then all that can be overlooked.

People don't realize how much wood the good production companies have to have back stocked and seasoning/drying/stabilizing to do what they do, that even goes for custom makers (just not nearly as much but still lots and lots are needed to build a good river of wood like deickman says lol) It is very hard to get wood that is not super duper seasoned and old to never move again.

I believe this is the reason why we get new cues from even the likes of Schon or McDermott and other quality productions and some customs that when rolled on the rail the tip moves somewhat, but when rolled on the table flat it doesn't show. The wood moved minutely somewhere in one or more places in the cue. It doesn't take but a hair of movement to make that tip roll a 1/4" off on the rail....thats why its so darn rare to have a cue, that when rolled with the butt on the table and the joint on the rail, the tip does not move at all. Most all cues have moved to some extent...If your lucky enough to have one that flatlines and is perfectly perfect then i suggest you take the best of care of such a rarity.

I've owned McDermotts, Schons, Hueblers, Palmers, Adams, Predator in production and customs from over a dozen makers...total cues I ever had is around 40 I'd say. ONLY ONE OF THOSE NEVER MOVED AND IS THE PICTURE OF LINEAR PERFECTION, straight is not even a good enough word. When I include all the cues I've seen/held/borrowed/owned etc...and rolled like I described that number has to be close to a thousand and I may be underestimating. Of that huge group only one other cue stayed perfect(I mean 100% perfect too), so 2 out of 1000+/- :yikes:

Most of the cues when rolled flat on the table surface rolled straight tho. And when rail tested many moved within reasonable tolerances which I consider to be definately 3/8" or under and rather see just an 1/8 of movement on the tip. The less it moves the more perfectly concentric it is from end to end.

But basically so long as the tip doesn't jump off the table bed when the cue is rolled flat, then its not going to be an kind of issue. The rail roll test is just a finer test thats just more accurate and precise at showing you a more detailed result on the condition of the cue.

Rolling flat on the table is better for checking the individual sections for warpage, rolling the cue with the butt on the bed and joint on top the cusion is better suited to check the total package.

there's straight and then theres straight,
Grey Ghost:nanner:

wow, long ride - thanks for coming...

best,
smokey
 
Jesus its like no one reads the whole post, ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY BUT THE PRINCIPAL OF THE MATTER


A very basic principal of commerce is that you get what you pay for.....you spent $30.....you got $30 worth of quality....also, sounds like the website has some leading indicators into what type of product you could expect.....I wouldn't be surprised if you never hear back from them...

With all sincerity, this is like being disappointed in the video quality of a new film you buy off a street vendor....or expecting a nice, scrumptious burger off the 99 cent menu.....we all get taken at some point - life is a series of learning opportunities, and luckily, it just cost you $50, with shipping....

I would NOT ship the cue back......take your hit, lesson learned....you have a good idea with using it as a break cue, I say you go with that.....I'm guessing that if you ship it back, you will never see it or any other cue again....
 
hey Perm...

A very basic principal of commerce is that you get what you pay for.....you spent $30.....you got $30 worth of quality....also, sounds like the website has some leading indicators into what type of product you could expect.....I wouldn't be surprised if you never hear back from them...

With all sincerity, this is like being disappointed in the video quality of a new film you buy off a street vendor....or expecting a nice, scrumptious burger off the 99 cent menu.....we all get taken at some point - life is a series of learning opportunities, and luckily, it just cost you $50, with shipping....

I would NOT ship the cue back......take your hit, lesson learned....you have a good idea with using it as a break cue, I say you go with that.....I'm guessing that if you ship it back, you will never see it or any other cue again....

i really enjoy your posts. i really do

just trust me here when i tell you you are wrong [imho]

i have spoken to mista by PM and he is a straight up guy who had faith

and maybe you can't agree, but i feel i would rather have faith like him, than be an un-trustful soul in life

just my take and no offense meant, you are a pleasure to read

all the best,
smokey
 
i really enjoy your posts. i really do
just trust me here when i tell you you are wrong [imho]
i have spoken to mista by PM and he is a straight up guy who had faith
and maybe you can't agree, but i feel i would rather have faith like him, than be an un-trustful soul in life
just my take and no offense meant, you are a pleasure to read
all the best,
smokey

Smokey, I don't doubt his intentions one bit.....he thought he was getting a superdeal and he went for it.....and I'm actually a little overtrustworthy myself - I have learned many a lesson the hard way.....

If you say he's a great guy, then I have no reason to doubt you.....methinks you are good people as well....but life has taught me that you get what you pay for.....

To give you an example, I just ordered a set of DVD's at a smoking price because you said so :D ......and I expect to get $20 worth, which is what I paid.....anything after that is a bonus....as a self proclaimed cheapskate, I have learned to always investigate the merchandice and realize that sometimes I take a flyer when I expect $150 worth of value out of a $20 product......but I shouldn't be surprised when I get disappointed...

You are good people, no offense taken at all, we just disagree here....and I am sure he is good people as well....:smile:
 
I have found meany good deals and have had a good success rate among the products and even people that have posted in this thread have said they have gotten a decent cue (not a $1000 playing cue but decent) for around $30ish. What I was looking for was a cheap straight cue for my wife to use when she come out to play, now am I going to spend a few hundred on a cue so it can be used once in a blue moon? no so I went the cheap route (guess that makes me dumb acording to some of you). So what did I expect? I expected to get what was stated but that must be worng as it looks like I am the only one that has faith any more. Once agan the point of my rant was not to ***** about the money but to ***** about the principal of honest selling. Would it make a difference if I paid $500 for a cue and it came like this? no because it shouldnt matter if I paid $5 or $500 if something is stated then it should be as stated. If a person steals a candy bar and gets caught its still theft under $5000 (Im in Canada) just like if a person stole a flat screen tv.

I wanna thank smokey for his offer on sending me a free cue ( I dont know smokey from a hole in the wall) and if it were about the money I would have jumped all over his offer.

GreyGhost that was one hell of a post and it was very informative as I didnt know any of that so thank you.

As for the rest of the people on here that are just goning to post "you paid $30 for a cue what did you expect??" or "you get what you pay for" thanks for your geniric input it was real informative ;)
 
hey Perm...

Smokey, I don't doubt his intentions one bit.....he thought he was getting a superdeal and he went for it.....and I'm actually a little overtrustworthy myself - I have learned many a lesson the hard way.....

If you say he's a great guy, then I have no reason to doubt you.....methinks you are good people as well....but life has taught me that you get what you pay for.....

To give you an example, I just ordered a set of DVD's at a smoking price because you said so :D ......and I expect to get $20 worth, which is what I paid.....anything after that is a bonus....as a self proclaimed cheapskate, I have learned to always investigate the merchandice and realize that sometimes I take a flyer when I expect $150 worth of value out of a $20 product......but I shouldn't be surprised when I get disappointed...

You are good people, no offense taken at all, we just disagree here....and I am sure he is good people as well....:smile:

here's the deal...

i always back up my big mouth one way or another - and here, if you don't like the dvds, just send them to me and i will refund the full price including shipping back to me

and ftr, Mista did not think he was getting a $150 cue, but just a a cue/gift for his wife and only expected """straight wood""" a playable cue, nothing more

and he is really a very nice gentleman. not a jerk, not some one who wanted something for nothing

and there are so many "holier than thou" [i call; south ends of a horse traveling north] here that want to teach him about life. i agree he made a mistake on the website he bought from. and i am sure he knows that now without all the "help" from the peanut gallery

anyway, i am happy to know Mista and you - but i already knew you from many posts, but never knew Mista before this thread.

i asked Mista if he would allow me to post one of his PMs to me - it was a lesson in humility and thoughtfulness. he did not reply yet but trust me Perm, he is a very kind and nice man.

all the best,
smokey

ps: i am sure you will later inform me what you think of the dvds! i hope you enjoy them as i do, but if not, you're covered
 
Since no one else has said it, I will....thanks mistamikel for making all of us aware of this POS site so that no one else gets scammed by them.
 
here's the deal...

i always back up my big mouth one way or another - and here, if you don't like the dvds, just send them to me and i will refund the full price including shipping back to me

and ftr, Mista did not think he was getting a $150 cue, but just a a cue/gift for his wife and only expected """straight wood""" a playable cue, nothing more

and he is really a very nice gentleman. not a jerk, not some one who wanted something for nothing

and there are so many "holier than thou" [i call; south ends of a horse traveling north] here that want to teach him about life. i agree he made a mistake on the website he bought from. and i am sure he knows that now without all the "help" from the peanut gallery

anyway, i am happy to know Mista and you - but i already knew you from many posts, but never knew Mista before this thread.

i asked Mista if he would allow me to post one of his PMs to me - it was a lesson in humility and thoughtfulness. he did not reply yet but trust me Perm, he is a very kind and nice man.
all the best,
smokey

ps: i am sure you will later inform me what you think of the dvds! i hope you enjoy them as i do, but if not, you're covered

Smokey I thought I sent you a PM back saying its ok with me but yes feel free to post what ever you like as its not like we were talking about wrold domonation.............Thats later and we will finance it by selling crocked cues at a very good price :)
 
Back
Top