If you had an ad, I never saw it.
Lately it has been difficult finding things of interest.
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Wanted/For Sale Section to Change in New Year
- Thread starter Jerry Forsyth
- Start date
Lately it has been difficult finding things of interest.
Classic!!!!!
Could be handled better.....
Personally i'm quite disappointed by this move and i think there hasn't been enough thought put into making this For Sale Section a better place.
AZ For Sale section has actually introduced me to alot of new cue makers that i would never have known existed let alone yearn to try one of their cues. In many ways it has help catapult these budding cue maker's business as well. That is also one of the reasons why AZ has become such a reputable and formidable force in the pool industry. It's through this forum that i met and bought cues from several cue makers and also appreciate the work of many of them, so it' saddens me to realise that it's just going to stop so abruptly.
I would think that being a Club Member would entitle us a privilege to vote when decisions like this has to be made. I'm not trying to be cocky or think highly of myself for paying $35 rather i would say that the entire Club Members community would hold the same weight as per the advertisers.
I understand that nothing is free and moderators or the owners of this forum needs to make some money to justify the operational cost and that's where advertisers come in. However since money is the motivation (from what i understand in the original post) why wasn't there a Plan B?
Instead of $35 for being an annual member, Cue Makers or Dealers who wants to sell their NEW cues would need to subscribe to a costlier program say $19.90 per month? Or whatever the amount justifies to the owner of the site. Or it could be a Fee-Per-Thread deal where every thread from a Cue Maker or Dealer selling new cues would cost $5-10 ? Again whatever the owners of forum deem appropriate since they can easily go through their database to see how much income they can generate from said formula.
Bottom line is, don't remove the rights from Cue Makers....i believe this Forum has provided many of them the platform to make decent living of cue making and allow the industry to grow in a right direction where younger cue makers can concentrate on learning and mastering the craft.
Like i said, owners of the forum have their bottom line and there are More Than One Way to reach your objective. True you can't please everyone, but i certainly believe you can help the community and reach your objective at the same time. Hear the Forum out.....
Personally i'm quite disappointed by this move and i think there hasn't been enough thought put into making this For Sale Section a better place.
AZ For Sale section has actually introduced me to alot of new cue makers that i would never have known existed let alone yearn to try one of their cues. In many ways it has help catapult these budding cue maker's business as well. That is also one of the reasons why AZ has become such a reputable and formidable force in the pool industry. It's through this forum that i met and bought cues from several cue makers and also appreciate the work of many of them, so it' saddens me to realise that it's just going to stop so abruptly.
I would think that being a Club Member would entitle us a privilege to vote when decisions like this has to be made. I'm not trying to be cocky or think highly of myself for paying $35 rather i would say that the entire Club Members community would hold the same weight as per the advertisers.
I understand that nothing is free and moderators or the owners of this forum needs to make some money to justify the operational cost and that's where advertisers come in. However since money is the motivation (from what i understand in the original post) why wasn't there a Plan B?
Instead of $35 for being an annual member, Cue Makers or Dealers who wants to sell their NEW cues would need to subscribe to a costlier program say $19.90 per month? Or whatever the amount justifies to the owner of the site. Or it could be a Fee-Per-Thread deal where every thread from a Cue Maker or Dealer selling new cues would cost $5-10 ? Again whatever the owners of forum deem appropriate since they can easily go through their database to see how much income they can generate from said formula.
Bottom line is, don't remove the rights from Cue Makers....i believe this Forum has provided many of them the platform to make decent living of cue making and allow the industry to grow in a right direction where younger cue makers can concentrate on learning and mastering the craft.
Like i said, owners of the forum have their bottom line and there are More Than One Way to reach your objective. True you can't please everyone, but i certainly believe you can help the community and reach your objective at the same time. Hear the Forum out.....
How about this? If you have a cue or what ever for sale, post it.
Bump it once a day if necessary. Police your own. Police others through PM's.
Tell people what you have in a simple manner. If someone wants more detail, let them pm you about it.
Everyone including cue flippers can follow this. It won't exclude anyone(maybe other than people trying to sell production items). Just because its never been hit with doesn't mean still "new".
Example: A 1970 bushka thats never been hit with isn't new, it's old in pristine, like new condition.
Example: An Olney that was built in December 2011 thats never been hit with doesn't mean its new, it means it was built in December of 2011.
A lot of people are reading too far into this IMO. :shrug:
Bump it once a day if necessary. Police your own. Police others through PM's.
Tell people what you have in a simple manner. If someone wants more detail, let them pm you about it.
Everyone including cue flippers can follow this. It won't exclude anyone(maybe other than people trying to sell production items). Just because its never been hit with doesn't mean still "new".
Example: A 1970 bushka thats never been hit with isn't new, it's old in pristine, like new condition.
Example: An Olney that was built in December 2011 thats never been hit with doesn't mean its new, it means it was built in December of 2011.
A lot of people are reading too far into this IMO. :shrug:
Does this mean cues that are not dated can not be sold? What determines a new cue, when it was made or its condition? If I buy a storage unit that has a dozen "lik new" Titlist cues and a Gus Szamboti still in the original un-opened shipping box can I list it for sale?
Non pool related items are probably a big part of this new change so for those that insist on trying to trade them they can do it privately. Example, if you have a certain item you want to trade for a pool related item, find something you like and send the seller a pm, dont start a thread about it.
Non pool related items are probably a big part of this new change so for those that insist on trying to trade them they can do it privately. Example, if you have a certain item you want to trade for a pool related item, find something you like and send the seller a pm, dont start a thread about it.
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I have to agree with this. Just make another section. I mean dear lord.... there are already like 30 sections. What is one more. Put it in the same catagory as cue/cases.
R,
Greg
Monday Bump........
If it is retailers that complained will they complain and demand a refund when the traffic on the site goes from 34000 to 3400 a day? I know i would if i paid X amount to put up a banner on a site that claims to get 30000 views and then falls to 3000.
Personally i've never seen an ad anywhere on here, i guess AdBlock is a good browser addon...lol.
LP has already created a W/FS thread, so whatever happens come the new year, people can head there to sell whatever isn't allowed here.
Personally i've never seen an ad anywhere on here, i guess AdBlock is a good browser addon...lol.
LP has already created a W/FS thread, so whatever happens come the new year, people can head there to sell whatever isn't allowed here.
35.00 a year ,,sound ok to me,,Thay made website to make money i have no problem with that,,but if they change they have to keep the reps up ,, and keep the scam;s away,,
BR
Ken
BR
Ken
Well...
A little bird told me that these changes are still being worked on.
The fact the matter is, there is a ton of people on AZ that make almost a living of what they sell and not even a Club Member they are signed up for.
Those businesses never advertise, never help AZ with anything.
These same businesses hurt the ones that advertise on AZ.
My suggestion is plain and simple...
Create sub forums to separate custom cues from nick nacks and create a Club Membership with different levels:
Private
Hobbyist
Cuemaker
Retail Business
A little bird told me that these changes are still being worked on.
The fact the matter is, there is a ton of people on AZ that make almost a living of what they sell and not even a Club Member they are signed up for.
Those businesses never advertise, never help AZ with anything.
These same businesses hurt the ones that advertise on AZ.
My suggestion is plain and simple...
Create sub forums to separate custom cues from nick nacks and create a Club Membership with different levels:
Private
Hobbyist
Cuemaker
Retail Business
I just got my expiry notice e-mail. I'm glad I read this thread first...
I recently bought a used cue (maker unimportant) on AzB forums. The cue didn't fit me, so I sold it. I advertised it here first, then actually sold it somewhere else. As I understand things, I would not be able to resell a cue here, that I originally purchased here lest I be marked as a re-seller?
I agree with previous posters that views will fall off, which means your cues will sell at a lower price, or just not sell.
Let's face it, this is the big boys club. If there are less members and less viewers, there is less competition for the cues "they" desire. This explanation seems as plausible as someone who pays for a membeship, then gets accusations of abuse from non-paying members who only want to cruise the forum, looking at all the high-dollar cues, but rarely buying. Seems like a kick in the teeth for those of us who choose to support the forum with club memberships.
In case you hadn't picked up on it, I won't be renewing my club membership and I strongly urge anyone else who disagrees with these rule changes to do the same. Cast your vote in the chosen language-$$$
I recently bought a used cue (maker unimportant) on AzB forums. The cue didn't fit me, so I sold it. I advertised it here first, then actually sold it somewhere else. As I understand things, I would not be able to resell a cue here, that I originally purchased here lest I be marked as a re-seller?
I agree with previous posters that views will fall off, which means your cues will sell at a lower price, or just not sell.
Let's face it, this is the big boys club. If there are less members and less viewers, there is less competition for the cues "they" desire. This explanation seems as plausible as someone who pays for a membeship, then gets accusations of abuse from non-paying members who only want to cruise the forum, looking at all the high-dollar cues, but rarely buying. Seems like a kick in the teeth for those of us who choose to support the forum with club memberships.
In case you hadn't picked up on it, I won't be renewing my club membership and I strongly urge anyone else who disagrees with these rule changes to do the same. Cast your vote in the chosen language-$$$
New wanted for sale forum rule for 2012
please post your acceptable definitions of a "used cue" & "new cue" to answer the questions so many people have. If you did this, I missed your post. Thank you, Paul Del Giudice, "PVD1"
please post your acceptable definitions of a "used cue" & "new cue" to answer the questions so many people have. If you did this, I missed your post. Thank you, Paul Del Giudice, "PVD1"
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Well didn't you turn out to be quite a little troll?
Two posts in the thread and both of them trolling me?
Bravo.
Here are my sales through the WFS section on AZ in 2011. Less than 19 cases for the whole year. Some of them trades. Less than 2 cases per month.
This is what you call an offender?
Looks like all happy AZB members to me. Multiply this by another 20 of us who sell regularly and you have HUNDREDS of happy AZBers, probably THOUSANDS who are using this forum every day to buy and sell and browse and discuss HAPPILY.
My record speaks for itself and I am quite happy to have made nearly 20 people happy with the cases they bought. So "Wedge" how about you go back under the rock you came out from under.
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I'm all for this move. I don't do much selling, have sold anything to be honest, but I've purchased a few cues from some good people. There's a difference between someone getting rid of a cue and someone hocking their wares on here. I think everyone here has been here long enough to tell the difference between someone that has a new cue they want to get rid of and someone that is just trying to sell cues.
MULLY
MULLY
What exactly is the problem?
The answer to me is simple. One section is for private classifieds of used stuff. One section is for commercial vendors who are selling new stuff. Adjust the rules on bumps so that they follow what more established forums do.
Charge the commercial vendors for the right to post and limit the amount of posting that they can do. Or as was previously mentioned allow them to purchase a subforum of their own if they have so much to offer that they need a section of their own.
The answer is NOT to cut out what's attractive about this section. And that is simply the sheer amount of offerings.
I grew up in the flea market business and the difference between a successful flea market and a crappy one is the amount of visitors it draws. Big flea markets with lots of vendors of all types draw more people. Little ones with hardly any vendors don't draw many people.
It would be a shame to destroy this section and watch the traffic fall off the cliff. On the other hand mixing the retail sellers with the private listings is not the right way to go either. I have mentioned to Mike and Jerry before how I feel that they can monetize this section and keep it vibrant.
One reason that the Super Billiards Expo is attractive is the amount of vendors. Those vendors pay for the privilege to be there and I think that the same thing can apply here. I wouldn't mind at all and I doubt anyone else who sells frequently here would either.
This is a marketplace that is every bit as valid as the Super Billiards Expo. It's been free long enough and many of us have profited well from being able to list here. Many of us have shown our support by purchasing a Club Membership. I am sure that many of us would not mind paying more for the yearly access to list our wares.
I personally look at this section as a virtual way to connect with my customers. It's as close to meeting them as I am going to get. It's also very good for market research as I can see what my competitors are putting up as they can see what I am putting up. I have come to know many fine cue makers through this section that would otherwise probably not have bothered to post were it against the rules.
To be honest I am happy though that some change is coming in this direction. If it's a total ban then it benefits me because I participate as a community member and I get sales due to people just pm'ing me because they like what I have to say. I don't like to compete with the people who NEVER contribute to AZB beyond the WFS section. People who show up counterfeit products, people who sell direct from Hong Kong with NO warranty whatsoever and no intention to back up their wares and the like. If all commercial sales are wiped off this section then I am positive I will not feel it much at all and the burden of putting up the couple cases for sale per month would cease. I wouldn't feel like I had to keep up with the Jones' because my competitors were putting up a couple cases a month and staying relevant in this section. The adage out of sight out of mind applies.
I feel that those who never contribute to the overall content on AZ, who never participate in the discussions, never add any value to the knowledge base would lose out. I have always felt that the trade off for being able to list for free is to give up some of my time participating as a member of the community.
But anyway as I said, I really feel that this is the right time to clean up and MONETIZE this section for AZB. It brings in a TON of traffic and a TON of views.
Regarding the idea that having a vibrant WFS with commercial vendors is affecting the advertisers....I don't know if one can really draw a proper correlation there. I mean certainly there have to be times when someone might not spend the $500 they slated on a cue on a Predator but instead on a Brent Hartmann but I think that's really hard to identify. On the other hand Predator's sales seem to do well so perhaps the advertising is working.
One thing AZB can do is to place banners ads IN THE THREADS. I participate in several forums that do this. So there is no escape from the banner ads other than ad-blocking which honestly no forum can do anything about as far as I know.
In the end it will be what it will be. Really though AZB's WFS is a destination for thousands of people every day. It is a community unto itself and it would be a real shame if it were destroyed by heavy-handed slash and burn tactics when there is most certainly a middle ground that increases revenue for AZB and preserves the strong amount of offers here. I think that the poor actors need to be weeded out and the contributors rewarded.
Regarding moderation I think that AZB should recruit moderators from the active participants in this section. Let it be kept clean by the people who use it most.
In any event I guess I better put up 20 cases for sale before the year ends.
The answer to me is simple. One section is for private classifieds of used stuff. One section is for commercial vendors who are selling new stuff. Adjust the rules on bumps so that they follow what more established forums do.
Charge the commercial vendors for the right to post and limit the amount of posting that they can do. Or as was previously mentioned allow them to purchase a subforum of their own if they have so much to offer that they need a section of their own.
The answer is NOT to cut out what's attractive about this section. And that is simply the sheer amount of offerings.
I grew up in the flea market business and the difference between a successful flea market and a crappy one is the amount of visitors it draws. Big flea markets with lots of vendors of all types draw more people. Little ones with hardly any vendors don't draw many people.
It would be a shame to destroy this section and watch the traffic fall off the cliff. On the other hand mixing the retail sellers with the private listings is not the right way to go either. I have mentioned to Mike and Jerry before how I feel that they can monetize this section and keep it vibrant.
One reason that the Super Billiards Expo is attractive is the amount of vendors. Those vendors pay for the privilege to be there and I think that the same thing can apply here. I wouldn't mind at all and I doubt anyone else who sells frequently here would either.
This is a marketplace that is every bit as valid as the Super Billiards Expo. It's been free long enough and many of us have profited well from being able to list here. Many of us have shown our support by purchasing a Club Membership. I am sure that many of us would not mind paying more for the yearly access to list our wares.
I personally look at this section as a virtual way to connect with my customers. It's as close to meeting them as I am going to get. It's also very good for market research as I can see what my competitors are putting up as they can see what I am putting up. I have come to know many fine cue makers through this section that would otherwise probably not have bothered to post were it against the rules.
To be honest I am happy though that some change is coming in this direction. If it's a total ban then it benefits me because I participate as a community member and I get sales due to people just pm'ing me because they like what I have to say. I don't like to compete with the people who NEVER contribute to AZB beyond the WFS section. People who show up counterfeit products, people who sell direct from Hong Kong with NO warranty whatsoever and no intention to back up their wares and the like. If all commercial sales are wiped off this section then I am positive I will not feel it much at all and the burden of putting up the couple cases for sale per month would cease. I wouldn't feel like I had to keep up with the Jones' because my competitors were putting up a couple cases a month and staying relevant in this section. The adage out of sight out of mind applies.
I feel that those who never contribute to the overall content on AZ, who never participate in the discussions, never add any value to the knowledge base would lose out. I have always felt that the trade off for being able to list for free is to give up some of my time participating as a member of the community.
But anyway as I said, I really feel that this is the right time to clean up and MONETIZE this section for AZB. It brings in a TON of traffic and a TON of views.
Regarding the idea that having a vibrant WFS with commercial vendors is affecting the advertisers....I don't know if one can really draw a proper correlation there. I mean certainly there have to be times when someone might not spend the $500 they slated on a cue on a Predator but instead on a Brent Hartmann but I think that's really hard to identify. On the other hand Predator's sales seem to do well so perhaps the advertising is working.
One thing AZB can do is to place banners ads IN THE THREADS. I participate in several forums that do this. So there is no escape from the banner ads other than ad-blocking which honestly no forum can do anything about as far as I know.
In the end it will be what it will be. Really though AZB's WFS is a destination for thousands of people every day. It is a community unto itself and it would be a real shame if it were destroyed by heavy-handed slash and burn tactics when there is most certainly a middle ground that increases revenue for AZB and preserves the strong amount of offers here. I think that the poor actors need to be weeded out and the contributors rewarded.
Regarding moderation I think that AZB should recruit moderators from the active participants in this section. Let it be kept clean by the people who use it most.
In any event I guess I better put up 20 cases for sale before the year ends.
cuemonster
Banned
Exactly. Having this forum as it is creates a tremendous value by fostering restoration of these classic cues. Past and current listings serve as a resource for identifyng and valuing cues. Many times I have had cues refinished, just to make them "right" and sold them without ever seeing a profit.
I agree that barring small cuemakers and casemakers would be a great disservice. How will they get exposure in today's market without listing here? They all seem to show great tact in their listings, not overbumping or pulling shennanigans.
The owners of AZ Billiards have only illuded to the fact that the large paying advertisers are not happy with how this forum is run. These big advertisers are upset that active cueflippers, cuemakers and owners of small websites profit here without paying their share. It's not feasible for these individuals to buy banner ads here. We have Simmonis, APA and McDermott cues banners mostly. Not sure how much business these ads would even generate for them.
If a transition were made to a fee for listing WFS section this could generate significant income. It could, but what if it didn't? The big advertisers will have left, because they are paying more for banners while someone else is listing items for $3, and besides the cueflippers ect...will find a way around listing here for a fee. Then the owners of AZB wouldn't have anything, now would they?
I do think a better designed listing site with a 3-5% listing fee could work, certainly it could. It's hard for AZB owners to envision a change as big as this, because it would surely mutate into something nobody could envision. We will just have to see how this one plays out.
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