Was I wrong for not telling my opponent he's shooting the wrong ball?!?!
- Thread starter fearless
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I am starting to feel like the real question for this thread is-
Would I blame it on anybody but myself if I shoot the wrong ball?
I'm pretty sure the majority of people on this thread will probably agree that they are at fault in this situation. As for the guy the TC was playing. He is a grade A assclown. If he wants somebody to hold his hand during a money match maybe he should be playing against some noobs for $1 per game.
Would I blame it on anybody but myself if I shoot the wrong ball?
I'm pretty sure the majority of people on this thread will probably agree that they are at fault in this situation. As for the guy the TC was playing. He is a grade A assclown. If he wants somebody to hold his hand during a money match maybe he should be playing against some noobs for $1 per game.
Bingo..................................
I will bother a player to warn him that he is on two fouls and I will also bother him when he is obviously about to shoot the wrong ball (pool or 3-cushion).
It does not matter to me:
-if I am playing in a tournament
-if I am playing in a league
-if I am playing for any amount of money
-if the match is hill-hill
-if my opponent has cheated me
-if my opponent has sharked me
-if my opponent has not warned me
-if my opponent is a registered sex offender
I am going to warn my opponent. I am the same guy no matter what.
I cannot recall a single instance in 40 years when a considerate warning was not appreciated. I admire the integral part that honesty, integrity, and consideration plays in golf and tennis. I do not demand from, nor do I belittle a player who does differently.
First off, I'm not sure I agree that warning your opponent he's on two is even an example of good sportsmanship. You aren't doing him any favors, you are doing it strictly in your own self interest.
But if you're going to make that comparative then the question is, do you really think it is considerate to warn your opponent he's on two when he's down on the shot? And do you really feel that would be met with appreciation by him?
That is a more valid comparison since almost all the time you are not going to realize your opponent is shooting at the wrong ball until he's down.
So are you saying you would warn your opponent he's on two fouls when he's down on the shot? I sure wouldn't. I'd warn him as soon as I was done with my inning and he was coming to the table. If I'd neglected to do so until he was down on the shot I would consider that high grade sharking. Personally, I'd rather let him off the hook for being on two than pull a move like that.
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I can see these two situations as 'apples and oranges'. You are obligated to notify your opponent he is on two fouls if you are playing 3 fouls is loss of game. You are not obligated to let your opponent know that he shooting the wrong ball. That is entirely up to you and you alone...not anybody else, such as sweaters, team mates, etc.
Gerry S
nypoolshootr
Banned
Warning opponent
I would have told him before he shot. Why?
1) You just killed any further action with this individual (not too smart).
2) You were on the hill at 8 and that might have let him get to 4 or 5 games right? So what is the worst thing that would happen if he ran out that rack? Break and run 4? It doesn't sound like it.
You'll win a lot more and have a lot more people to play if you show them consideration at times. Retireve the CB when you scratch. Always give them a chance at winning back their money. Be willing to make adjustments to the spot as required. I concede 9 balls all day to guys that make me shoot every one. It never comes into play for me. If they think I'm a jerk, how can they go off for bigger money?
Do you tell a guy to wait when another player backs up behind him while he's shooting or do you just sit there and hope he gets run into?
I'd bet this guy never plays you again.
I would have told him before he shot. Why?
1) You just killed any further action with this individual (not too smart).
2) You were on the hill at 8 and that might have let him get to 4 or 5 games right? So what is the worst thing that would happen if he ran out that rack? Break and run 4? It doesn't sound like it.
You'll win a lot more and have a lot more people to play if you show them consideration at times. Retireve the CB when you scratch. Always give them a chance at winning back their money. Be willing to make adjustments to the spot as required. I concede 9 balls all day to guys that make me shoot every one. It never comes into play for me. If they think I'm a jerk, how can they go off for bigger money?
Do you tell a guy to wait when another player backs up behind him while he's shooting or do you just sit there and hope he gets run into?
I'd bet this guy never plays you again.
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Everyone has their own opinion which I appreciate for sharing, but after looking back at that night I don't feel I was wrong. If the tables were turned, I know for a fact he would not have said anything after learning last night that the owner of the pool hall played him a couple weeks ago and he let him shoot the wrong ball. It doesn't justify anything, but it is not my responsibility to tell him he is making a mistake just as it is not his responsibility to tell me when I'm making a mistake. If i make a mistake Its totally on me and i have no one to blame but myself. For those who feel it is bad sportsmanship, that is solely your opinion and we can agree to disagree but don't blame others for a mistake you made. I've always been an honest player. I will always call a foul On myself whether my opponent saw it or not. I treat my opponent with the respect I would like to be treated with. After all the years I've gambled with this guy wether winning or losing I've always treated him with respect even the times he's been an asshole to me. That is what really got to me. That after all these years, I've been the only guy to ever treat him respectfully And give him action when's he's looking for even if I had the worst end of it and this is the respect you show me. You're gonna call me a piece of shit for YOUR MISTAKE! Anyhow, people are gonna view it through their own eyes and this is how I see it. As far as gambling goes, I could care less if I ever play him again. I'm one of the very few left who would gamble with him because of how he gets when he gambles. This is not a sport where there is a lot of money. I play because I love this game.
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I only read the first page and skimmed through the 8th, so pardon me if someone else brought this up, but has anyone ever let their opponent shoot the ball they shot and keep going to see what transpires? Lets say he shoots the 4, he shoots the 5, he shoots the 6 then sees the 3 on the table. Now what? It hits him that he's fouled on the 4 and shot 2 other balls after that. Not only would he think "oh gosh, I've given up BiH" and "oh gosh I didn't notice for 3 shots". Now the pressure is off you for not telling him and you have 3 less balls on the table to run. :wink:
As the person I am, I always tell them they're shooting the wrong ball as soon as I know - whether it's before, during or after the shot. I do this for all players regardless for any amount if any, but that's just me in my human nature. I don't expect anyone to do the same for me.
I also tell my opponents they're on 2 fouls immediately after the second foul occurs. I believe that is the right time to call it.
As the person I am, I always tell them they're shooting the wrong ball as soon as I know - whether it's before, during or after the shot. I do this for all players regardless for any amount if any, but that's just me in my human nature. I don't expect anyone to do the same for me.
I also tell my opponents they're on 2 fouls immediately after the second foul occurs. I believe that is the right time to call it.
If you tell your opponent he is on two immediately after the second foul, you'd better tell him again right after your inning ends when he takes the table because otherwise it doesn't count - at least not in World Standardized rules or in the BCAPL. Again, warning an opponent he's on two is not a matter of courtesy, it is strictly to protect yourself. If you want to be really courteous to your opponent, don't warn him. :wink:
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So if your opponent forgot to mark a point on the wire would you tell them? I sure would. Of course it is their responsibility to know what they are doing, but why wouldn't you tell them? Do you really want to win like that?
I don't think anybody said you had poor sportsmanship in that case, but you also didn't show the best sportsmanship that you possibly could have and your opponent got mad at you for it, which was poor sportsmanship on his part, but you should never expect people to just take something like that like they are supposed to, especially not the vast majority of pool players.
Not only that, it also caused you to play poorly, not win the set, and he probably wont give you action anymore (of course if it were me, I wouldn't want that kind of action in the first place). So you also have pragmatic reasons to tell a person in situations like this.
Looking back on it, even though you didn't make a "wrong" choice, don't you think you would have been better off telling him before the shot?
Also, nobody in the thread said that they would blame their mistake on the person that didn't tell them.
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Nothing clouds the fact that a player is not required in any way shape or fashion to get out of their chair in any of those situations... or any others you may come up with. Not his shot. Over.
This type of question isn't about what I or anybody else would do, IT IS about what we are feasibly able to judge others for doing (or not doing). In this case, and many others, we are in no position to say anything negative about a shooter who doesn't inform an opponent he's about to foul. Very simple stuff.
Nobody is judging him, just telling him that he would be better off telling his opponents they are shooting the wrong ball.
I'll quote the dude:
"that is just like, um, your opinion, man"
Except its not an opinion. Its a fact that we weren't judging him. We didn't say for example "You are such a douche bag for not telling your opponent." We were offering our opinions after he asked for them I don't believe anybody said anything about his character (although I could be wrong in an 8 page thread).
Play by the rules, whatever they may happen to be.
You're right! Telling him is the "smart" thing to do as well as the gentlemanly thing to do. You've made some very astute points worth noting that pertain to winning in the long run and extending the wallet stripping.
The thread maker was interested in knowing if the members of this forum thought he was "wrong".
Telling him may have been the smart and the gentlemanly thing to do but the thread maker was playing by rules and he broke no rules.
In professional sports and amateur sports, ALL OVER THE WORLD, EVERY DAY you see players breaking rules and squawKing when they get caught as if they didn't know what they were doing in the first place.
Personally, I think players should be required to call fouls on themselves when a referee is not present and should conduct themselves as gentlemen at all times and yes, you should be required to tell your opponent that he or she is preparing to shoot the wrong ball.
This has got me thinking, perhaps when you start gambling, you should make this part of the game's rules. When you attempt to put these rules into the makeup of the game, the dirt-bags will give you the WTF look and grudgingly agree or start with some BS reason why those rules shouldn't be implemented.
I did like the honesty and candor in which one poster wrote, that on occasion he might conveniently look away to avoid seeing what ball the shooter is going to shoot, thereby avoiding the responsibility of telling the shooter what ball to shoot. I mean really, a guy is "wrong" for not telling a person that they are getting ready to shoot the wrong ball. Like another said, if that, then you may as well start telling them that they are making a mistake using the wrong English.
Rules are there for a reason and this thread has given me pause about why this isn't a rule. It makes sense not to put the burden of correcting your opponent's mistake on the other player's back so the thread maker can't be wrong.
That still doesn't mean that you can't do the gentlemanly thing and tell them. It just means that you aren't wrong for not telling them.
This is one of the few threads that I am ever going to grade. Where's that Like button?
You're right! Telling him is the "smart" thing to do as well as the gentlemanly thing to do. You've made some very astute points worth noting that pertain to winning in the long run and extending the wallet stripping.
The thread maker was interested in knowing if the members of this forum thought he was "wrong".
Telling him may have been the smart and the gentlemanly thing to do but the thread maker was playing by rules and he broke no rules.
In professional sports and amateur sports, ALL OVER THE WORLD, EVERY DAY you see players breaking rules and squawKing when they get caught as if they didn't know what they were doing in the first place.
Personally, I think players should be required to call fouls on themselves when a referee is not present and should conduct themselves as gentlemen at all times and yes, you should be required to tell your opponent that he or she is preparing to shoot the wrong ball.
This has got me thinking, perhaps when you start gambling, you should make this part of the game's rules. When you attempt to put these rules into the makeup of the game, the dirt-bags will give you the WTF look and grudgingly agree or start with some BS reason why those rules shouldn't be implemented.
I did like the honesty and candor in which one poster wrote, that on occasion he might conveniently look away to avoid seeing what ball the shooter is going to shoot, thereby avoiding the responsibility of telling the shooter what ball to shoot. I mean really, a guy is "wrong" for not telling a person that they are getting ready to shoot the wrong ball. Like another said, if that, then you may as well start telling them that they are making a mistake using the wrong English.
Rules are there for a reason and this thread has given me pause about why this isn't a rule. It makes sense not to put the burden of correcting your opponent's mistake on the other player's back so the thread maker can't be wrong.
That still doesn't mean that you can't do the gentlemanly thing and tell them. It just means that you aren't wrong for not telling them.
This is one of the few threads that I am ever going to grade.
Where's that Like button?
IMO, the reason this subject (the one of not telling an opponent they are about to shoot the wrong ball) can never be a rule, nor required, is because it would be a rule that is fraught with loopholes, and unenforcable. All a person who is sitting in his/her chair has to do to overcome this rule is to say "I couldn't tell which ball you were shooting at", or " I was distracted by the waitress and didn't see what was going on", or something to that effect. It would cause more problems/arguments than the shooter just accepting the simple fact that he/she wasn't paying close enough attention, screwed-up, and except the consequences of their mistake.
FTR, I have never not told an opponent that they were shooting the wrong ball IF I knew without a doubt that they were. That said, in the OP's case, with all the crap he (and others before him) had to put up with from the person he was shooting against on that day, I might not have told him either. The guy sounds like a total jerk (I'm not judging, just going on what the OP has stated). I'm not sure why he would ever want to gamble with him again anyways.
Maniac (giving the OP a pass on this one!!!)
This post gets to the heart of things
Joey is one of the gentlemen of the game. I like his post. Joey is also a nice guy, I ain't.
The best reason of all to call your own fouls playing me is that I have a long standing policy that if the other player makes me responsible to act like a referee I act like a referee. Don't expect me to sit in my chair like a player when there is a questionable shot. Nope, I'm going to jump out of my chair and stand as close as needed and in the best position to make a ruling. If that sharks the other player, tough. I'm only doing my job as a referee.
Hu
You're right! Telling him is the "smart" thing to do as well as the gentlemanly thing to do. You've made some very astute points worth noting that pertain to winning in the long run and extending the wallet stripping.
The thread maker was interested in knowing if the members of this forum thought he was "wrong".
Telling him may have been the smart and the gentlemanly thing to do but the thread maker was playing by rules and he broke no rules.
In professional sports and amateur sports, ALL OVER THE WORLD, EVERY DAY you see players breaking rules and squawKing when they get caught as if they didn't know what they were doing in the first place.
Personally, I think players should be required to call fouls on themselves when a referee is not present and should conduct themselves as gentlemen at all times and yes, you should be required to tell your opponent that he or she is preparing to shoot the wrong ball.
This has got me thinking, perhaps when you start gambling, you should make this part of the game's rules. When you attempt to put these rules into the makeup of the game, the dirt-bags will give you the WTF look and grudgingly agree or start with some BS reason why those rules shouldn't be implemented.
I did like the honesty and candor in which one poster wrote, that on occasion he might conveniently look away to avoid seeing what ball the shooter is going to shoot, thereby avoiding the responsibility of telling the shooter what ball to shoot. I mean really, a guy is "wrong" for not telling a person that they are getting ready to shoot the wrong ball. Like another said, if that, then you may as well start telling them that they are making a mistake using the wrong English.
Rules are there for a reason and this thread has given me pause about why this isn't a rule. It makes sense not to put the burden of correcting your opponent's mistake on the other player's back so the thread maker can't be wrong.
That still doesn't mean that you can't do the gentlemanly thing and tell them. It just means that you aren't wrong for not telling them.
This is one of the few threads that I am ever going to grade.
Joey is one of the gentlemen of the game. I like his post. Joey is also a nice guy, I ain't.
The best reason of all to call your own fouls playing me is that I have a long standing policy that if the other player makes me responsible to act like a referee I act like a referee. Don't expect me to sit in my chair like a player when there is a questionable shot. Nope, I'm going to jump out of my chair and stand as close as needed and in the best position to make a ruling. If that sharks the other player, tough. I'm only doing my job as a referee.
Hu