Weight lifting and pool

Puck90a

Puck90a

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I read a short article in an APA newsletter and a woman was giving beginner advice about the importance of establishing a stable bridge hand and pure stroke, because "pool is a game where millimeters count." Well put.

I'm not a body builder, but I do lift weights pretty regularly. I played pool several years ago (sucked - had beginner's bad habits), but I can remember feeling more fatigue when playing pool back then, mostly lower back pain. I quit pool for a few years, and in that time, I started lifting weights. Full body stuff - legs, core, back, shoulders, chest, arms. Well now I've come back to pool and I've noticed the extra strength helps with my fatigue. I don't get back pain like I used to. My stroke is stronger and more pure than ever. I'm not trying to hit balls harder, but it feels like I have more stable control of the cue.

Since I've picked the game up, I've been neglecting weight lifting for the past few months, but I want to pick it back up. Here's my question...

Will continuing to lift weights while playing pool hurt my pool game? When lifting weights, I'm tearing down muscles. I feel sore while muscles rebuild. Pool is a game of muscle memory where "millimeters count." How can my muscles maintain that kind of precise memory when I'm constantly tearing them down?

What do you guys think?
 
Stretch and warm up

Puck90a said:
I read a short article in an APA newsletter and a woman was giving beginner advice about the importance of establishing a stable bridge hand and pure stroke, because "pool is a game where millimeters count." Well put.

I'm not a body builder, but I do lift weights pretty regularly. I played pool several years ago (sucked - had beginner's bad habits), but I can remember feeling more fatigue when playing pool back then, mostly lower back pain. I quit pool for a few years, and in that time, I started lifting weights. Full body stuff - legs, core, back, shoulders, chest, arms. Well now I've come back to pool and I've noticed the extra strength helps with my fatigue. I don't get back pain like I used to. My stroke is stronger and more pure than ever. I'm not trying to hit balls harder, but it feels like I have more stable control of the cue.

Since I've picked the game up, I've been neglecting weight lifting for the past few months, but I want to pick it back up. Here's my question...

Will continuing to lift weights while playing pool hurt my pool game? When lifting weights, I'm tearing down muscles. I feel sore while muscles rebuild. Pool is a game of muscle memory where "millimeters count." How can my muscles maintain that kind of precise memory when I'm constantly tearing them down?

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Muscles have no memory of course unless you use the term as it applies to materials that fatigue and develop "memory" such as plastics and metals, then I suppose the tension in the muscles could be called "memory". "Muscle memory" is a term used to describe something that is learned in the unconcious, a part of the mind. Obviously weight lifting has no effect on that other than the time taken away from pool.

However, the unwanted tension in muscles from weight lifting or the things I sometimes did for a living, climbing iron, turning wrenches, or auto body repair, can be an issue playing pool because this can affect stance and more commonly stroke. We never use our muscles equally so some are tighter than others after heavy weight lifting. Always stretch hamstrings before playing pool. Your earlier problems were almost certainly due to poor stance playing pool which is often a result of tight hamstrings. Aside from stretching, a medium brisk walk swinging your arms and just to the point you feel warm and loose can be a good warm up for pool if you are a little tight. I would think a swim would be ideal but not practical for most of us.

Before play or practice, do the up and down table drill returning the cue ball to your tip, then put the cue ball on the headspot and a numbered ball on the footspot and shoot stop shots, this will reveal how straight your stroke is and more importantly for your purposes, if you are steering your stroke due to muscle tension. A striped ball can replace the cue ball aligning the stripe to see if you are hitting the cue ball straight. One more thing, use the nine ball as the cue ball and chalk your tip. Clean the nine ball and position the "9" vertical and with the hole in the nine positioned where you want to hit it with your tip. Check that you are indeed hitting the cue ball where you think you are. Sometimes multiple errors can offset each other and be hidden for a few shots but because they aren't consistent they bite you in the butt over the course of time.

A few beers tends to take the kinks out of muscles too but it isn't a method I use these days. ;)

Hu
 
Puck90a said:
I read a short article in an APA newsletter and a woman was giving beginner advice about the importance of establishing a stable bridge hand and pure stroke, because "pool is a game where millimeters count." Well put.

I'm not a body builder, but I do lift weights pretty regularly. I played pool several years ago (sucked - had beginner's bad habits), but I can remember feeling more fatigue when playing pool back then, mostly lower back pain. I quit pool for a few years, and in that time, I started lifting weights. Full body stuff - legs, core, back, shoulders, chest, arms. Well now I've come back to pool and I've noticed the extra strength helps with my fatigue. I don't get back pain like I used to. My stroke is stronger and more pure than ever. I'm not trying to hit balls harder, but it feels like I have more stable control of the cue.

Since I've picked the game up, I've been neglecting weight lifting for the past few months, but I want to pick it back up. Here's my question...

Will continuing to lift weights while playing pool hurt my pool game? When lifting weights, I'm tearing down muscles. I feel sore while muscles rebuild. Pool is a game of muscle memory where "millimeters count." How can my muscles maintain that kind of precise memory when I'm constantly tearing them down?

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

I have been lifting pretty regularly for about 6 years and have never had any issues with lifting hurting my game. Immediately following a workout it can be a little trying, as the muscles are quite fatigued. Particularly following a leg workout. Its hard to stand still when you legs are aching. =)

I know the guy on the left here, Donny Mills, works out, and it sure hasn't hurt his game. Hes shooting in the finals of the Mizerak 10ball Tourney with SVB as we speak.

donnie-elvis.jpg
 
Take it from a guy thats been bodybuilding for over 20years and playing pool for over 30,people that dont know mite think this is bull,but when you are in deep with bodybuilding and doing fine(no pain)i believe it makes you do everything better,it keeps you sharp and alert ,from all the energy that a bodybuilder contains in their body,iam a firm believer that it helps somewhat in pool!just think if one is all heavy and out of shape,this cant be helping his game at all,not that heavy people cant play great,because we all know they can,but being out of shape sure isnt helping them at all.
 
First lifting weights are meant to stimulate not tear down muscle. The key in any training program is rest. Recovery , over training can do more harm than good. Conditioning yourself for the long haul. If you tear something down you are not recovering , you are repairing. Fixing something you broke. If that makes any sense.
Play Long ~ Finish Strong
 
I'm with BryanBpool...

...and I wrote two books on pumping iron. What's key is the interval you plan on in between the two activities. Donny Mills goes straight from his workout to the table and claims no problems after the first few racks, but he's an exceptional talent. I've been doing both for over 50 years and I'd say at least half a day in between working out and playing pool comes highly recommended. If you play pool first, of course, this wouldn't apply. But good luck in your pursuit of both. Sensibly balanced, there's no reason why they can't complement one another. GF
 
I've been lifting weights seriously for about 20 years and playing pool for about 15 years. I don't really think it impacts my game positively or negatively overall. I think the stamina from working out helps, but usually if I get bad position it is because I over-powered the cue ball- it could just be that I'm not the best regarding hand eye coordination or maybe the weight lifting interferes with touch shots. Don't really know
 
Excellent question and thread, I was wondering the same thing so thank you for asking it<3

I've started working out few months ago, and I have noticed that right after a workout I cannot execute shots properly, but if I play before a workout there will be no problems.
 
asbani said:
Excellent question and thread, I was wondering the same thing so thank you for asking it<3

I've started working out few months ago, and I have noticed that right after a workout I cannot execute shots properly, but if I play before a workout there will be no problems.
Click to expand...


The real problem comes from the lactic acid buildup in your muscles from a workout. The fix is easy: just walk briskly for 15 minutes after your workout to remove the lactic acid.
 
having an exercise program of any kind will help your pool game because it keeps you focused and gives you more endurance. Lifting weights I think helps. I lift and shoot pool and sometimes, if it's a pretty heavy workout and I play right after then I might not shoot quite as good. But other times I lift and play right after and I'm still high on endorphins/whatever and I shoot great. So, as others have mentioned, maybe just try to leave an hour or two between workout and pool and you should be fine.
 
Im trying to think of another pool player that is a gym rat like Donny. I know alot of other players are into fitness, like Mika and Thorsten, but really lifting and getting huge, and playing world class pool...im drawing a blank.

I know I cant do this. I play like dog crap if im trying to lift to gain size and still be able to runout with any kind of consistency.

I think the ability to achieve at high levels at both of these things at the same time is very challenging and like George Fels said, it takes an exceptional talent like Donny to do it. Its possible, just not easy at all.
 
uwate said:
Im trying to think of another pool player that is a gym rat like Donny. I know alot of other players are into fitness, like Mika and Thorsten, but really lifting and getting huge, and playing world class pool...im drawing a blank.

I know I cant do this. I play like dog crap if im trying to lift to gain size and still be able to runout with any kind of consistency.

I think the ability to achieve at high levels at both of these things at the same time is very challenging and like George Fels said, it takes an exceptional talent like Donny to do it. Its possible, just not easy at all.
Click to expand...

This has been my experience too.

If you are doing any sort of strength building type of lifting (not just light weights, high reps), I find it does set your game back temproarily. It depends on what muscle groups are being worked, but I find bicep, tricep and lat workouts seem to affect your stroke most.

For me, it takes a day for my stroke to recover. If I'm doing one of those listed workouts, I find my speed control is off (for Pool). Draw shots seem to be under hit. I just don't have the same "touch" on my shots.

This only happens on my "heavy weight weeks". I alternate between lighter weight/higher reps, sets one week to heavy weight/les reps, the next week.


Eric
 
Thanks guys.

I recently read an article about muscle memory and how over a long period of time, neurons in muscles and the brain collaborate and form better communication. The way I read it, your muscles do actually somewhat "remember" the motions, or at least to the extent that your brain doesn't have to give the muscles as long of an "explanation" to execute a desired motion. For example, a beginner has to think for a while about how to stroke a good draw shot, but an experienced player just thinks "draw shot" and his his brain tells his arm "draw shot" and the arm just says "Ok, got it" with no further explanation required. When you're in the flow, don't you have those moments where you're sinking shots without even having to try? It's like your mind is hovering somewhere else and your muscles are just on autopilot making shots without you having to really focus that hard.

Like I said, if muscles are undergoing the strain of heavy lifting and fibers are being torn and rebuilt, I'm wondering if some of those neurons that remember stroke get lost in the mix.

I haven't had problems too bad though. But I'm not an extreme lifter.
 
This reminds me of what happens during golf season where I like to play on weekends.

I like to work out and push my muscles hard so they are sore for 2 days or more recovering. Rotating the bodyparts I train each day, pretty much everyday of the week some bodypart is sore. Playing with sore muscles definitely affects my swing.

During golf season I don't work out at all, or if I do, I hit the golf muscles after playing golf leaving enough time for recovery and the non golf muscles can be trained before playing without interfering with my game.

Depending on how often you shoot pool, something similar should work for you.
 
excellent advice!

Tennesseejoe said:
The real problem comes from the lactic acid buildup in your muscles from a workout. The fix is easy: just walk briskly for 15 minutes after your workout to remove the lactic acid.
Click to expand...

This will indeed sharply reduce soreness, won't eliminate it when you are on a serious strength building program though. Aside from using it in my own training for distance running it was one of the tricks I used conditioning race horses thirty years ago. Several things transfered over from human conditioning and weren't commonly known or accepted in the horse racing world.

To the OP, I do understand what you are saying about the neurons now. I don't know the answer to that and don't know if the theory is right or simply theory at the moment. Might be true. Most if not all things we do without conscious thought are controlled from the unconscious, hard to say how totally I guess. Something else to consider about weight lifting, the way we train can increase fast twitch or slow twitch fiber in our muscles. I don't think either is critical for pool but I'd lean towards fast twitch for speed and control. I have weight trained for other activities that needed fast twitch muscles, seemed to help.

Hu
 
I was afraid to lift and hadn't for about 14 years until moving to FL and seeing how big Donny Mills is now and how he's playing better than ever.
I don't think his experience is the acception to the rule either. I just think he's stuck with it long enough that he's conditioned his body to be able to do both.
I know Charlie Williams and Rodney Morris lift heavy as well. I'm not sure how heavy but I know Mika and Thorsten do lift. I'm pretty sure Mika liften really heavy for a long time until he reached the size he wanted to be and now just maintains.
I've been lifting heavy now for about 18 months and my experience was that for the first several weeks I really was too sore to play well for about 2 days after. Then one day for a few weeks. Then it got to where it just took hours. Now it just takes about 30-40 min longer to get loose and in stroke than it normally would. Hopefully in another year it'll only take 5 min like it does for Donny.
The benefits for me include increased stamina, less back pain, and just feeling better about myself in general/more confidence.
 
richiebalto said:
Take it from a guy thats been bodybuilding for over 20years and playing pool for over 30,people that dont know mite think this is bull,but when you are in deep with bodybuilding and doing fine(no pain)i believe it makes you do everything better,it keeps you sharp and alert ,from all the energy that a bodybuilder contains in their body,iam a firm believer that it helps somewhat in pool!
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. It's not only a belief. It's based on fact. Plenty studies prove mind & body work in unison, meaning that folks who exercise their brains regularly tend to be in pretty good physical shape, and folks who exercise their body regularly tend to be in good mental shape. It's called "physiology", basically the connection between mind & body that includes and goes beyond motor skills. Elite body builders study it & put it into practice, even indulging in supplements intended to enhance focus & motor skill isolation through mental control. Anybody who goes to a gym regularly knows that body builders are never stupid people. Stupid people simply cannot effectively compete. Relating that to pool, which world class player is a complete idiot that knows nothing about anything except pool? Doesn't exist. Great players are witty, clever, problem solvers, no matter how moronic they are in the rest of their life. Stupid people don't have the capability to play great pool, any more than they have the capability to build their body to sculpture quality. Long story short, no, you won't have to worry about lifting weights adversely affecting your game. The testosterone boost alone will edge up your competitive determination.
 
@shootingarts

I forgot about fast/slow twitch. I try to lift heavy to build mass, but I'm basically a Johnny Archer look alike and building mass just ain't happenin for me, but that's a topic for a body building forum :) Anyway, I also do a lot of pushups (quickly). Since I did all that for a year and have come back to pool, it seems like I do have a more confident stroke. Like I said, I'm not smashing balls and don't want to, but I feel more *solid* when I stroke. Not to mention, I think I can break harder now (breaking is all about fast muscle twitch). But then again, I'm not particularly worried about how hard my break is.

@qbilder

Mind and body - VERY interesting topic. I've been on a bit of a spiritual journey the past couple of years. It has gone as deep as reconciling childhood experiences, becoming a better man, being confident, managing anxiety, blah blah blah. But I have brought that pursuit of inner focus and peace to the pool table, and let me tell you, I've never played this well in my life. I used to be a decent player, but very inconsistent. I'd miss easy shots and get MAD. Now I focus, breathe, and confidently command the balls to go where I tell them. When I make an error, I calmly walk away, I understand why I missed the shot, and I focus on preparing for upcoming shots. I focus on discipline, consistency, and pre-shot routine. It has made practice more effective, and I'm better in competition. I've tried to kinda adopt a samurai mindset in pool and it seems to be an effective approach.

On a side note: Like I said, I'm a Johnny Archer look alike so sports haven't been very prevalent in my life. But playing in APA, I've learned how essential healthy competition is to the health of the male psyche. Losing teaches you lot and can be a great motivator if you don't *let* it make you mad, and winning is a great reward.
 
Puck90a said:
@shootingarts
Mind and body - VERY interesting topic. I've been on a bit of a spiritual journey the past couple of years. It has gone as deep as reconciling childhood experiences, becoming a better man, being confident, managing anxiety, blah blah blah. But I have brought that pursuit of inner focus and peace to the pool table, and let me tell you, I've never played this well in my life. I used to be a decent player, but very inconsistent. I'd miss easy shots and get MAD. Now I focus, breathe, and confidently command the balls to go where I tell them. When I make an error, I calmly walk away, I understand why I missed the shot, and I focus on preparing for upcoming shots. I focus on discipline, consistency, and pre-shot routine. It has made practice more effective, and I'm better in competition. I've tried to kinda adopt a samurai mindset in pool and it seems to be an effective approach.

On a side note: Like I said, I'm a Johnny Archer look alike so sports haven't been very prevalent in my life. But playing in APA, I've learned how essential healthy competition is to the health of the male psyche. Losing teaches you lot and can be a great motivator if you don't *let* it make you mad, and winning is a great reward.
Click to expand...

I'm on the same journey and recognize everything you are talking about, except for the JA lookalike LOL. Every answer reveals & demands an array of new questions. The biggest achievement for me was getting the reins on my emotions, getting a little control not only over how I handled or reacted to emotions, but how I dictated what triggered the emotions in the first place. It was brought to my attention how emotions have triggers, which are activated by our predetermined limits. Most of these limits were set in childhood, as we watched how others reacted to situations, and we decided that we are supposed to react in similar fashion when faced with similar situations. Realizing that and learning to adjust those limits has been a critical step in my life. It certainly helps my pool game. Above that it has helped me deal with troubles in life like family, illness, assholes, failure, success, religion, etc. I'm still struggling, of course. But I am growing. My pool game still sucks, tho.
 
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