well here we are again. bash me.

[JoeyInCali]

hold on there bobalouie:grin:, it wasnt me that questioned it.
it was macguy that said in post #39..............
Hearing now that it was stabilized wood we know where the rattle came from. The polymer that was used to stabilize did not accept the glue. I have seen some stabilized woods that you could not glue at all, it was like they made of Teflon.

i was hoping to hear more about his(macguy) experiences with the resin impregnated wood & glue failures.
i have never used it

We've seen a ton of cues with impregnated burl. Some even small inlays.
Maybe we can discuss this with Trent in a watering hole somewhere.
Isn't the polymer some form of glue ?
Did Trent core it and what glue was used ? GG would be my last choice.
West 206 first.
My late mentor used stabilized eastern maple for forearm and had no issue. It was not even cored and he used 3M DP460 for all glued components.
In this case, we can only speculate until we discuss the whole cue with Trent.
We don't even know if the wood was totally dry before getting injected with polymer.
I'm not crazy about stabilized wood myself. They gain a lot of weight but the tone ( heaven forbid if people check wood tone ) in them is muffed to me.
You know which nasty chemical I'd rather use than polymer. :grin-square:

 

[purpdrag]

screw it it will ship tomorrow as requested

everyone happy now?????????????????????

poof cue goes out he will be unhappy regardless.

I try to read through an entire thread before commenting. It wasn't easy in this case but I'm glad I did. I wanted to jump in a couple of times to agree with what most are saying, but now I'll just say I respect you for changing your position and I know it wasn't easy for you.

I just hope people will now lay off and give the issue a rest. Case closed and put it behind you. You're doing the right thing.

 

[DaveK]

Dave,

..... Trent buzz was doubtless due to using a material that he was unfamiliar with it's gluing properties.

....

JMO,

Rick

Rick, I agree completely and this was my point. Being unfamiliar correlates to a lack of experience, hence my question.

Dave

 

[ratcues]

I feel sorry for the wood...

 

[The Saw]

Being unfamiliar correlates to a lack of experience, hence my question.

Dave

That's the problem with most skilled trades.... There is no apprenticeship requirement, standardized test, or set regimen for entry into them. I was a welder by trade for years. A lot of people that have had a job where they used a welding machine and would strike an arc for a pay check would consider themselves welders but they couldn't hold my jock strap. There is much more to the trade than striking an arc...

When I first got into pool 20 years ago there was a modest number of people that were building cues, most of which were true cuemakers. Now, there are so many people building cues that fancy themselves as cue makers that it will make your head swim. There are some that have came into it in the past 20 years that are good and true cuemakers but the majority are builders at the very best. Big difference between a builder and a maker...

 

[Trent]

That's the problem with most skilled trades.... There is no apprenticeship requirement, standardized test, or set regimen for entry into them. I was a welder by trade for years. A lot of people that have had a job where they used a welding machine and would strike an arc for a pay check would consider themselves welders but they couldn't hold my jock strap. There is much more to the trade than striking an arc...

When I first got into pool 20 years ago there was a modest number of people that were building cues, most of which were true cuemakers. Now, there are so many people building cues that fancy themselves as cue makers that it will make your head swim. There are some that have came into it in the past 20 years that are good and true cuemakers but the majority are builders at the very best. Big difference between a builder and a maker...

I wouldnt say thats fact.
It depends where you work and their standards of employment.

when I went to school for Auto collision I was there for 2yrs then apprenticed at Haydocy pontiac as a frame tech and painter then took my test the be ASE certified.

When i started to become a machinist i had to go threw training/apprenticeship if you will before i could get my own mill.
and if you join a union you get tested as well for your journeymans card.

there are ways to get into a skilled trade and not have school or training but youll never make money like the ones who have had the training.

As far as cue makers go well i refer to the international cuemakers page

Cue-Maker: Members with at least two years experience in making quality cues on a regular basis and are currently hands on cuemakers.. (see guidelines below)

Cue-Manufacturer: Must have been in business manufacturing cues for at least five years and have at least 5 employees.

Cue-Repairman: This level will include those who primarily repair cues and possibly build extra shafts and occasionally do lower level cuemaking.

Apprentice: This level is for those who have less than one year experience in repairs and two years in cuemaking or who have not supplied examples of quality work for determining they have earned the title: Cuemaker or Cue-Repairman.

Trent = Cuemaker :grin-square:

Sorry i didnt know the idiosyncratic properties of stabilized wood.

 

[mia]

When I first got into pool 20 years ago there was a modest number of people that were building cues, most of which were true cuemakers. Now, there are so many people building cues that fancy themselves as cue makers that it will make your head swim.

I agree completely. It seems like in the past 10 years alone, AZ has helped spawn HUNDREDS of new "cuemakers". It's gotten to a point where nowadays, anyone with a lathe can buy some components from Prather and/or other sources, assemble the pieces, take some pics, get a screen name on AZ like "So-and-so Cues", and boom! Instant cue maker! There's always a number of guys willing to spend a relatively low amount on a "custom" cue from these new guys because:

A) They foolishly think the word "custom" means "better"
B) They're all hoping to find the next big "it guy" in the cue world.

How many of these cuemakers today would even be known to anyone outside their home town if it weren't for AZ?

 

[The Saw]

I wouldnt say thats fact.
It depends where you work and their standards of employment.

when I went to school for Auto collision I was there for 2yrs then apprenticed at Haydocy pontiac as a frame tech and painter then took my test the be ASE certified.

When i started to become a machinist i had to go threw training/apprenticeship if you will before i could get my own mill.
and if you join a union you get tested as well for your journeymans card.

there are ways to get into a skilled trade and not have school or training but youll never make money like the ones who have had the training.

As far as cue makers go well i refer to the international cuemakers page

Cue-Maker: Members with at least two years experience in making quality cues on a regular basis and are currently hands on cuemakers.. (see guidelines below)

Cue-Manufacturer: Must have been in business manufacturing cues for at least five years and have at least 5 employees.

Cue-Repairman: This level will include those who primarily repair cues and possibly build extra shafts and occasionally do lower level cuemaking.

Apprentice: This level is for those who have less than one year experience in repairs and two years in cuemaking or who have not supplied examples of quality work for determining they have earned the title: Cuemaker or Cue-Repairman.

Trent = Cuemaker :grin-square:

Sorry i didnt know the idiosyncratic properties of stabilized wood.

Sure, but how many people call themselves body men that have never taken a course in it? A ton of them, some of which work in body shops and do hack work...

How many people call themselves a mechanic that have zero training and aren't ASE Certified? Way more untrained than trained....

My dad was a tool and die maker.... You wouldn't believe the number of guys that told him "Oh yeah, I'm a machinist too" (not even in the same universe), or said they were tool and die makers (90% of which would get lost in the first couple of questions he would ask)....

The point is everyone wants to consider themself "that" professional, when the vast majority are not anything close to what the "true" professional would deem as such.

 

[The Saw]

I agree completely. It seems like in the past 10 years alone, AZ has helped spawn HUNDREDS of new "cuemakers". It's gotten to a point where nowadays, anyone with a lathe can buy some components from Prather and/or other sources, assemble the pieces, take some pics, get a screen name on AZ like "So-and-so Cues", and boom! Instant cue maker! There's always a number of guys willing to spend a relatively low amount on a "custom" cue from these new guys because:

A) They foolishly think the word "custom" means "better"
B) They're all hoping to find the next big "it guy" in the cue world.

How many of these cuemakers today would even be known to anyone outside their home town if it weren't for AZ?

Amen.... Cuemaking is CERTAINLY a job that requires paying your dues to learn and now with the microwave & internet age, everyone wants to be a cuemaker right now and not pay their dues to learn. Its like that with pretty much everything now and thats one of the reasons this whole world is turning to shit.

 

[BHQ]

the guy fukks up one cue with materials unfamiliar to him,
and now everybody else is experts

you think those good ol' boys in the gold ol' days didnt have fukups?

thank god we have az to set the world right again

brent>never touched resin impregnated wood before either
trent you shoud be hanged from a yardarm:grin:
what's a yardarm?

 

[DaveK]

the guy fukks up one cue with materials unfamiliar to him,
and now everybody else is experts

you think those good ol' boys in the gold ol' days didnt have fukups?

thank god we have az to set the world right again

Brent, the issue is taking on work for pay that one is not equiped to do, simple as that imo. And this would not have been an AZ issue had Trent not started this thread. If one does not want AZ feedback then one should be smart enough to not put it out there ... not the case here.

Dave

 

[Trent]

Brent, the issue is taking on work for pay that one is not equiped to do, simple as that imo. And this would not have been an AZ issue had Trent not started this thread. If one does not want AZ feedback then one should be smart enough to not put it out there ... not the case here.

Dave

Do tell how I'm not equiped to do the work???



Brent don't get yourself wraped up in this man, I started this because AZ loves a chance to smack cue guys around. And for once I beat the buyer to it. This wuld have happened regardless.

I just wanted it to be truthfull for once.

I openly admit a mistake don't wanna send it out get slammed I woulda caught less heat not saying anythng and shipping it the way it was then blaming it on humidity or shipping or something.

In the end who gives a shit he gets what he wants. And I get to be done with it.

 

[DaveK]

Do tell how I'm not equiped to do the work???

In your own words : "Sorry i didnt know the idiosyncratic properties of stabilized wood. "

Dave

 

[BHQ]

Brent, the issue is taking on work for pay that one is not equiped to do, simple as that imo. And this would not have been an AZ issue had Trent not started this thread. If one does not want AZ feedback then one should be smart enough to not put it out there ... not the case here.

Dave

arent we just speaking of a possible glue failure here?
forget the politics around the transaction, we're talking about a mistake
could have happened to me, or anyone
shit happens , we all know that
it's a cue, it aint the end of the world
and howdy dave!!! havent seen ya in awhile

 

[rayjay]

I agree completely. It seems like in the past 10 years alone, AZ has helped spawn HUNDREDS of new "cuemakers". It's gotten to a point where nowadays, anyone with a lathe can buy some components from Prather and/or other sources, assemble the pieces, take some pics, get a screen name on AZ like "So-and-so Cues", and boom! Instant cue maker! There's always a number of guys willing to spend a relatively low amount on a "custom" cue from these new guys because:

A) They foolishly think the word "custom" means "better"
B) They're all hoping to find the next big "it guy" in the cue world.

How many of these cuemakers today would even be known to anyone outside their home town if it weren't for AZ?

None of them. If they were doing this 30 years ago, they'd be broke and doing something else. What's even more amazing to me, is almost all of them charge and get as much as well known, long established cuemakers who have paid their dues, and they get it because they use unusual woods and hype each other up. There's some on here that haven't been building a year yet and are being hyped as collectable. Amazing. I'll say again, pool players are the most gullible group on the planet, me included, but I'm learning.

 

[Trent]

None of them. If they were doing this 30 years ago, they'd be broke and doing something else. What's even more amazing to me, is almost all of them charge and get as much as well known, long established cuemakers who have paid their dues, and they get it because they use unusual woods and hype each other up. There's some on here that haven't been building a year yet and are being hyped as collectable. Amazing. I'll say again, pool players are the most gullible group on the planet, me included, but I'm learning.

260 bucks for this cue with silver rings and 2 shafts.....

I hardly fall into that category.


I just want it to be known

I don't know what caused this be it the wood glue or something in the construction. But regardless I have never had it happen before.

Brent thanks man.

 

[BHQ]

260 bucks for this cue with silver rings and 2 shafts.....

I hardly fall into that category.


I just want it to be known

I don't know what caused this be it the wood glue or something in the construction. But regardless I have never had it happen before.

Brent thanks man.

dont ever fuk up again!!
on the flip side of this situation,
i have a project in the works where the material is so porous,
i was concerned about it "sucking the epoxy" away from the core,
just the opposite of your deal
tell you about what i did sometime :wink:
over a beer or six

 

[rayjay]

260 bucks for this cue with silver rings and 2 shafts.....

I hardly fall into that category.


I just want it to be known

I don't know what caused this be it the wood glue or something in the construction. But regardless I have never had it happen before.

Brent thanks man.

I didn't say you were, Trent. In fact, I thought I saw where you have been building cues for something like 8 or 9 years? Right? I'm just going by memory so it's bound to be flawed. It's hard to buy two shafts alone for $260.

 

[Trent]

I didn't say you were, Trent. In fact, I thought I saw where you have been building cues for something like 8 or 9 years? Right? I'm just going by memory so it's bound to be flawed. It's hard to buy two shafts alone for $260.

I've been doing cue repairs since 2004

Building wise something like 3 yrs for full custom built my first conversion like 5 or six yrs ago.


Brent I'm due for 6 man. I'm gonna eventually take a day off maybe head ur way.

 

[BHQ]

I've been doing cue repairs since 2004

Building wise something like 3 yrs for full custom built my first conversion like 5 or six yrs ago.


Brent I'm due for 6 man. I'm gonna eventually take a day off maybe head ur way.

works for me, i dont have a life, always here
unless i'm there:grin: