How many years does it take to become a reasonable cuemaker ? How experienced are those directly involved ? Just curious as to your opinion on what level of experience might be needed.
Dave <-- metal lathe owner for over 10 years, but not a cuemaker
well here we are again. bash me.
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How many years does it take to become a reasonable cuemaker ? How experienced are those directly involved ? Just curious as to your opinion on what level of experience might be needed.
Dave <-- metal lathe owner for over 10 years, but not a cuemaker
Hey i never said i agreed with how it was handled, and i wasnt trying to insult you either. I was just stating my opinion, not trying to stir this pot any further. Unless i missed it when i read your posts, i didnt see where you were acting immature at all.
Joe
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Let me just say that im a noob builder, and im not capable of repairing Larrys cue. I would refer that work elsewhere. Ive been trying to build cues for a little over a year. Trent has been at it far longer and has WAY more knowledge than i do, and hes built many many cues. I think thats enough experience. I know Larry is in to knives, but i have no clue if he builds cues. He might, but i dont know. I dont know what level of experience is needed to fix the cue, but im sure Trent is capable, if he had the time. Its all just my opinion tho, so its prolly worth some used toilet paper.
Joe
The best advice most people could get on being an aspiring cue maker is found in your sig line.... Thats as real and honest as it gets.
Ya Joe, It sounds like bad timing on the whole deal. I do hope that Trent sends the cue off to Larry and then he can have someone redo or fix it.
Its a beautiful combination of the wood provided and Trents handiwork!
Being a cue nut like many on here, I gave serious consideration to getting into cue building. After about 30 seconds, I changed my mind!!!
I hate how you go around here making so much sense... What is wrong with you??? LOL.
You're especially right on the bold above...
Even if you don't send it out,people still know that there was a problem
with the cue so who cares?Nobody is perfect,plus the man said he
didn't care about the ''rattle''.So this can't come back at you,its all in
writing.This guy is probably thinking you want to keep the cue for yourself
or you have a buyer that would pay you alot more than he did for
that cue.Don't put your name on it,send it back,you got paid and he got
his cue.No point in having bad Karma over a piece of wood.Goodluck
with the cue so who cares?Nobody is perfect,plus the man said he
didn't care about the ''rattle''.So this can't come back at you,its all in
writing.This guy is probably thinking you want to keep the cue for yourself
or you have a buyer that would pay you alot more than he did for
that cue.Don't put your name on it,send it back,you got paid and he got
his cue.No point in having bad Karma over a piece of wood.Goodluck
Caused by Casey Jones, the engineer:grin:
Really nothing to add; just thought I'd help fulfill this prophesy! :grin:
Dave,
Brent Hartman made a very good point relative to the impregnated wood in question and gluing of same. This may be the reason the cue had a buzz and not an improper workmanship by Trent.
That brings us to your question, how many years does it take?
IMO, Cue Making is a craft that requires hundreds of construction and machining skill sets and knowledge of adhesives and coatings. To build a great cue you must not fail in any detail involving your procedure or methods. Every time one deviates from their methods in any way it can cause a major problem.
I have been building cues for 8 years now and have a very prolific cue repair business that I started 9 years ago out of my pool hall. Before I started selling my cues I set up a beta testing program whereby I built and gave away about 50 cues to my employees, friends, and customer who were league members.
The deal was they were to be test pilots for my cues and if there was a problem of any kind that developed in the field testing of same that they should let me know so I could correct it or replace the cue.
This system proved very effective because I was able play in a minor league system with mock customers, deadlines and downstream correction modifications. When a problem arose, I was able to respond and address without the money being involved in the conversation. When I made mistakes no one ever got mad because they never lost a dime as my cues were all gifts to people who were very special to me.
During this time I created my QA QC Program procedure with statistical process control over every detail of my methods based on downstream field observations. Today I have extreme confidence in my product in every aspect because of this experience gained.
Believe it or not when I shared this info about giving cues away on AZ with other people in "Ask the Cue Maker", there were some people who actually made fun of my efforts like I was a joke. Today as I look back on this endeavor I understand that every mistake I made could have had a negative effect on my brand and name as a CM. When one person says something bad about anything and they tell someone else, before you know it your a serial killer.
My advise to any cue maker is to try to do the same thing buy giving away a lot of cues until you know you are ready and prepared for the big leagues which is selling a cue to a customer who will want to cherish their cue whenever they hold it in their hand.
Again as Brent Hartman pointed out, Trent buzz was doubtless due to using a material that he was unfamiliar with it's gluing properties.
Root Cause Identification, Corrective Action, and Lessons Learned.
The lesson learned here for me is to stay away from that type of material or make some test cues using it before I selling one as everything you do that deviates from a procedure can lead to failure if you give it that chance.
BTW, I learned the hard way a long time ago to supply all of the wood for my cues and process them through my shop myself. It appears to me that Trent was trying to accommodate a customer supplying this material and it set a trap for him.
JMO,
Rick
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You and I usually disagree sir, so I want to thank you for a nice post even though our background has not been very civil.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I am looking at this as more of a collaboration between the two. The customer is interested, it seems, in getting his materials into cue making. But those materials are an unknown quantity. He has posted more than just wood with the proposal or hope that people would be interested in putting it in cues.
It seems to me he needs a cue maker to work with him on that and Trent was willing to.
I understand your position on processing your own wood. I am sure it reduces unknowns and hazards.
I think the situation they got into is perfectly understandable, and their arrangement not outside reasonable. Tempers and/or emotions flared which complicated the situation.
Your own approach is generally very methodical, quantifiable bordering on scientific, and definitely with a strong bent toward engineering. Some cue makers lean in other directions, less quantifiable, more artistic in approach.
Personally, I appreciate both ends of the spectrum and see the value in both as well as other approaches. I also appreciate your very well reasoned contribution in this thread. Your contributions in general are appreciated in fact, but I have to say that particularly here it is noticed and appreciated. Trent obviously was in a bind and that is a time for people to come together rather than create deeper divides. I am aware of differences the two of you have had as I have seen them in threads. I think it is important to note that both of you are above dwelling on such matters especially now when reputations are at risk.
Bravo.
.
You wanted bashing? How about some honesty?
This kind of behavior, arrogance and zero pride in customer service is why people have no faith in cue makers today. You sir, have given a black eye to the industry today...Telling a customer in a public or private forum you are going to destroy his property because of your poor workmanship, or for whatever reason unable to fix it and also because "he insulted you" has got to be the worst solution that i've ever heard of. Thats like a carpenter doing a crappy job building a someone a house, the guy complains and say's i'll just have someone else fix it and you say, f-you then, i'm going to burn it down and send you the ashes.. Thats insane...
After this public display, I'm sure anybody who owns one of your "masterpieces" are going to be real happy you've just destroyed any possible value they may have had...
This kind of behavior, arrogance and zero pride in customer service is why people have no faith in cue makers today. You sir, have given a black eye to the industry today...Telling a customer in a public or private forum you are going to destroy his property because of your poor workmanship, or for whatever reason unable to fix it and also because "he insulted you" has got to be the worst solution that i've ever heard of. Thats like a carpenter doing a crappy job building a someone a house, the guy complains and say's i'll just have someone else fix it and you say, f-you then, i'm going to burn it down and send you the ashes.. Thats insane...
After this public display, I'm sure anybody who owns one of your "masterpieces" are going to be real happy you've just destroyed any possible value they may have had...
hold on there bobalouie:grin:, it wasnt me that questioned it.
it was macguy that said in post #39..............
Hearing now that it was stabilized wood we know where the rattle came from. The polymer that was used to stabilize did not accept the glue. I have seen some stabilized woods that you could not glue at all, it was like they made of Teflon.
i was hoping to hear more about his(macguy) experiences with the resin impregnated wood & glue failures.
i have never used it
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first you take the wood and money
2nd you don't do the work right
3rd you won't take a few hours to fix it
4th you spend hours on here sharing private conversations
5th you show no respect to the customer
6th you think a buzz that you caused will hurt your reputation
what do you think this tirade will do for you?
how could you possibly think that anyone would want to work with you ,
seeing how you act?
do you really think that you are going to have people want to send you materials and money,when you can't even fix a buzz,and would prefer to attempt to humiliate a customer in public ?
2nd you don't do the work right
3rd you won't take a few hours to fix it
4th you spend hours on here sharing private conversations
5th you show no respect to the customer
6th you think a buzz that you caused will hurt your reputation
what do you think this tirade will do for you?
how could you possibly think that anyone would want to work with you ,
seeing how you act?
do you really think that you are going to have people want to send you materials and money,when you can't even fix a buzz,and would prefer to attempt to humiliate a customer in public ?
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We have only got ONE cue maker in Sweden. Send a couple our way. The one we have is a very nice gentleman!
www.haagcues.com
This post was very off topic but anyway.
www.haagcues.com
This post was very off topic but anyway.
Sorry Brent,
I thought it was your post! I read post 46 and thought it was your observation. I did not get the reference because the quote was not displayed as a quote per se.
Anyway, I have no experience with that stuff and never glued it. It is too bad that Trent had to lear the hard way but and of us that have never used stabilized material have learn to question this in the future.
Again sorry I screwed that up.
Rick
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If you saw the cue into pieces couldn't that be construed as destruction of property (someone elses) and therefore a potential criminal offense?
Good looking wood.
My experiance with buzzing "A" joints was always with the glue, or the lack there of. :smile:
Good looking wood.
My experiance with buzzing "A" joints was always with the glue, or the lack there of. :smile:
I have seen a few posts in this thread regarding this giving a black eye to cuemakers in general. I disagree. I don't consider the act of any one cuemaker to be reflective of them all as a general statement. It just shows what kind of cuemaker this particular cuemaker is. Kind of like what happened with a design a dream with Mr. Stroud. I think for every bad one out there, there is probably a good one to match it. Same holds true in making deals through this forum. Some good, some bad. Buyer beware.
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