I will not believe that my material damages the balls because since I have made the first ferrule/tip I have used it on my pool table with my balls and cue ball and I admit I do not play much but enough to see if there is any damage on my equipment and I see none after 7 years. All these theories on what caused damage to some cue balls. I want to see a test of a cue ball showing damage after how many hits does it take? 5 or 5 thousand or more. How does the BCA know what caused what damage. What about these new products that are out there, new Samsara leather tips "hard as phenolic" but with control of leather what does this mean, does this cause damage or are we going to wait 7 years to find out. The white diamond tips, are they safe, is the phenolic in the Tiger tip different than my phenolic? There is no proof that anything happened concerning my material. Just some words. Something this big that affects so may people needs proof not theories. This is not about my product alone, there is Fury, McDermott, Jacoby, J&J, Stinger, Predator, and how many other pool companies. There are tens of thousands of cue repair people that put on these ferrule/tips, I personally would like one of these people that have tried to prove that my material damages the balls show me the proof. Show me the proof, Mark Griffin of the BCA League, this question is for you, all these new products, have they been tested? Can they damage the balls? Why have you banned my product without any proof and why do you allow other products that have not been tested? Show me the test results of all the materials used in breaking and jumping. Are all the new materials safe? Do you know any of these answers? No politics, yea right.
What about the other stuff
- Thread starter gulyassy
- Start date
Are you able to build some kind of arm holding a cue stick that can continuously hit a cue ball tens of thousands of times at say 15 to 20 to25 mph to prove the test?
The test would have to be at least 10 cue balls and my material vs. G10 and may be 1000 hits apiece at different mph. to hold my statements true. Do you have a phone number or mine is 864-458-7662
Try a measle ball
Mike,
Try this with a new measle ball. Get on a table and simply hit the ball center diamond to center diamond at break speed a couple dozen times using a house stick off the wall. No contact with anything other than a tip and cushions. Wipe down the cue ball and check for damage. Now hit it the same number of times the same way with a phenolic tip. Wipe it down and look again. If it is like my cue ball it will have quite a few "smiley faces" that it didn't have after being hit with the house tip.
The measle balls seem to have a surface that shows damage worse than other cue balls. Regardless, I practiced with mine a handful of times breaking with a house stick off the wall, no damage. One session with my practice partner using a phenolic tipped break stick and it had the smilies all over it.
I do agree with you that other materials and probably even the specially hardened leather tips can damage cue balls too. I haven't seen the claims of leather as hard as phenolic but anytime you get about the same hardness as the cue ball you are going to damage it fairly significantly even if the material used is a specially hardened marshmallow. I think we will see all nonleather tips outlawed and then they will have to figure out how to ban the super hard leather tips.
Hu
Mike,
Try this with a new measle ball. Get on a table and simply hit the ball center diamond to center diamond at break speed a couple dozen times using a house stick off the wall. No contact with anything other than a tip and cushions. Wipe down the cue ball and check for damage. Now hit it the same number of times the same way with a phenolic tip. Wipe it down and look again. If it is like my cue ball it will have quite a few "smiley faces" that it didn't have after being hit with the house tip.
The measle balls seem to have a surface that shows damage worse than other cue balls. Regardless, I practiced with mine a handful of times breaking with a house stick off the wall, no damage. One session with my practice partner using a phenolic tipped break stick and it had the smilies all over it.
I do agree with you that other materials and probably even the specially hardened leather tips can damage cue balls too. I haven't seen the claims of leather as hard as phenolic but anytime you get about the same hardness as the cue ball you are going to damage it fairly significantly even if the material used is a specially hardened marshmallow. I think we will see all nonleather tips outlawed and then they will have to figure out how to ban the super hard leather tips.
Hu
these are the exact same marks that are on my ball and they did not show up till I started breaking with a phenolic tip
these are the exact same marks that are on my ball and they did not show up till I started breaking with a phenolic tip
What kind of cue do you break with? (I am loosening my belt and bending over very slowly)
One idea: send one of your break cues to AZ Member, "Genesis", for testing. Aramith sent him one of their "Duramith" balls, and he managed to crack it on his second try:
Here are his threads:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=94578
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=136089
Video of the break, and pic of his ferrule are here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=136089
If anyone can crack a cue ball with one of Mike's tips, I think Genesis can. He seems to have the invisible touch, yeah. :thumbup:
GULYASSY I break with a J&J SB-1. Before that I used a Mcdermott Jump break with a triangle tip. I have not had the opportunity to use your product so I am not going to contend that yours will do the same, just sharing my experience with phenolic tips. 
phillyslim99
Registered
Mike, I have no doubt that you are a true professsional; I'm honestly baffled why you would continue this topic. There is no doubt that the vast majority of player's posts on this topic are overwhelmingly AGAINST anything except leather tips for a variety of reasons. Over the past year, I've spoken with perhaps a dozen pool hall owners who have indicated frustration because of the costs of replacing cue balls MUCH MORE frequently in their pool room.
I'm curious to hear why the BCAPL would have any negative interests against you. I haven't heard anything other than mudslinging at the BCAPL, and your argument seems to be "they are out to get me".
Indiviuals have indicated NUMEROUS reasons for their satisfaction with the decision - (1) Increased cue ball wear (2) general loss of kicking ability among players (3) unlevel playing field amongst players. Your argument seems to be semantics to the average player. Respectfully, the BCAPL responsibility is to the average player's interest - not to produce a scientific study for YOU on cue ball density.
I am no professional but I have used Gulyassy Sledgehammer jump breaks for the past 5 years. I have never seen any damage to any cue balls from my cue. There are a couple of other players in my community who use Gulyassy Sledgehammers and I've never heard of any knd of damage or marks they leave on the cue ball. The only problem I've ever had with the phenolic tip-ferrule combo is they don't hold chalk well. Nothing a little scuffing won't cure.
Indiviuals have indicated NUMEROUS reasons for their satisfaction with the decision - (1) Increased cue ball wear (2) general loss of kicking ability among players (3) unlevel playing field amongst players. Your argument seems to be semantics to the average player. Respectfully, the BCAPL responsibility is to the average player's interest - not to produce a scientific study for YOU on cue ball density.
Just as a point of information, at least regarding points 2 & 3, IIRC the BCAPL has not outlawed phenolic tips from jump cues but only for break cues.
I am setting up a new table at my home and bought a brand new set of Brunswick Centennials. No phenolic allowed in my pool room.
phillyslim99
Registered
Thanks - Not a BCAPL member or fan of phenolic tips in general, so I suppose the break cues are a stepping stone in the right direction. JMHO.
From some previous posts, those who argue "why aren't phenolic JUMP cues banned?" strikes me as a reason to "outlaw" jump cues w/ phenolic, rather than "allow" break cues with phenolic. Hmmm...I don't get it :embarrassed2:
As I remember it, the reasoning was that damage is not thought to occur at jump shot speeds. The main danger from cue ball damage comes as you approach the speeds involved in breaking. So the decision to allow phenolic to continue to be used on jump cues is in keeping with the stated reasons for the ban, that it damages equipment. Here's the video where Mark Griffin discusses this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMbeXO06TZA
As it stands right now I think the ban is for national events only. I believe the local leagues can still allow it if they choose.
phillyslim99
Registered
Yes, I do understand. It just seemed that other people argued that, if phenolic "jump" cues are allowed, so should phenolic "break" cues - However, that seems to contradictorily argue that NEITHER should be allowed. Its MY opinion that phenolic tips are a detriment to the sport in general - on break cues AND jump cues. The ban of phenolic tips on break cues, as I said, "is a step in the right direction".
My rationale for not using PHENOLIC jump cues is that it seems inappropriate for an EXPERIENCED "player A" to be forced to re-learn defensive strategy because Novice "player B" purchased a novelty jump cue last week. This is a common occurrence and part of the reason for my distaste for phenolic cues.What if someone invents a MORE durable "Cloth" than current products, but it causes the balls to react differently. Should everyone "re-learn kicking, banking, and caroms in the name of Product Progress? I don't believe that they should. Again, just my two cents :smile:
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I don't disagree. I grew up in pool long before phenolic. No one had a dedicated jump cue. Hell, no one had a different cue for breaking either. Since straight pool was the primary game neither of those specialty cues were really needed. For 9-ball your playing stick was used for jumping and a wall cue worked just fine for breaking.
these are the exact same marks that are on my ball and they did not show up till I started breaking with a phenolic tip
That is exactly what alot of the balls in Vegas looked like for both the VNEA and BCA after some play. Tip sized stress fractures.
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