What do you think could make a TAR-type venture work? Is it impossible?
- Thread starter CreeDo
- Start date
If you looked around the main table at the DCC, i would say the mean age, correction median age (just as many over it as under) of the spectators was somewhere in the 70 y.o. area
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Sex and violence sells.
But there have been some great suggestions here. To add one more: Keep the matches to 1 hour or so. It's hard for me to spare enough time for a 5 hour match.
The real question is: Who is the target audience? The pool purist who wants information or the general public who wants to be entertained?
But there have been some great suggestions here. To add one more: Keep the matches to 1 hour or so. It's hard for me to spare enough time for a 5 hour match.
The real question is: Who is the target audience? The pool purist who wants information or the general public who wants to be entertained?
You're right. The viewer NEEDS to be VESTED in any live match. How does the viewer become vested?
JoeyA
I think the pool hall idea is great. During the Ocean State Championship Tournament at Snookers Providence in RI, Steinway Billiards were showing the live stream on their TV's and even after I finished playing I stayed to sweat the finals between Dechaine and Shaw even though I could've left to watch in the comfort of my home.
If they asked for $5 a head I would've happily paid, but this was a free stream.
The point I'm trying to make is, due to the atmosphere at the pool hall and the others that was sweating the match, I decided to stay because others were also interested in watching, which is better than being home and watching by yourself.
I'm sure no one watches the Superbowl by themselves but rather in a large group. I think that's the key.
If they asked for $5 a head I would've happily paid, but this was a free stream.
The point I'm trying to make is, due to the atmosphere at the pool hall and the others that was sweating the match, I decided to stay because others were also interested in watching, which is better than being home and watching by yourself.
I'm sure no one watches the Superbowl by themselves but rather in a large group. I think that's the key.
I also think this is a good idea. If I had a poolhall, we would show all the matches and build it up. The ones I frequent don't seem to care about the streams...
Exactly, they don't. It's been tried and they really don't care.
I used to take my computer to the pool room and the owner and I would split the cost of whatever match was on.
I thought a lot of people would want to watch and it would be more enjoyable to
watch with others. How wrong I was even on the nights with many league players there.
They would pass by and not even stop to glance at a pool match on the big screen TV.
Most of the time it would just be me watching, sometimes one or two others.
Finally I just didn't bother anymore.
I thought a lot of people would want to watch and it would be more enjoyable to
watch with others. How wrong I was even on the nights with many league players there.
They would pass by and not even stop to glance at a pool match on the big screen TV.
Most of the time it would just be me watching, sometimes one or two others.
Finally I just didn't bother anymore.
I had the same experience, but at my house. I invited 5 of my pool-playing friends over for a deli dinner and Mosconi Cup youtubes on the big screen. We ate good food, drank beer and talked about all kinds of stuff.
They watched about two minutes of the match and then lost interest. I'd try to bring their focus back on the match, "He's got to pocket the 3-ball and go three rails for position on the 4-ball..." all to no avail. They'd rather talk politics, sports and weather... I should have turned on the 9-o'clock news.
Nascar format, world wide could work.
Well sounded like a good plan ha ha
i hear ya, if J couldn't get er dun the avg caveman got no chance
Girl Scouts of America and Boy Scouts should be approached about adding pool to the program! Dr. Dave style in my opinion. Integrating physics into the game and problem solving. Statistical analysis of the break like Joe Tucker did with his video's and some fancy trick shots from Venom to really get the kids attention.
I mention this topic as My daughter is in girls scouts and my mother a troop leader. My daughters troop leader came over while I was playing one pocket and once I explained the object of the game and she realized the degree of difficult and witnessed a power one pocket run out from down 5 to -1 win. Her eyes got big and she loved what she was witnessing. People in my opinion are MORE cerebral in my opinion and capable of advance thinking and concepts. 9 ball seems to dumb everything down unfortunately!
Back on topic. I believe TAR can find a home at Lindenwood University or even my old alma-mater UMBC University of Maryland Baltimore County! Many Universities have space and ballrooms that they would allow use of their facility. Free exposure and advertising. The facility is never used anyway! It is a win win situation for them and you could even sweeten the pot by having who ever plays spend a little time with the host universities billiard team giving an hour or so of their time in instruction.
The Girl Scouts of America have a beautiful cabin and acres of land that was donated to them over the years in my area alone. They would be interested in a TAR partnership. Bring in Jeanette Lee and Dr. Dave to work with the girls and when it rains the girls are stuck in the cabins and what better way to get rid of cabin fever then a pool table for the girls. They got money and facilities. The Boy Scouts of America as well could be a great partner.
Gallaudet University would love to do a whole piece on Shane Van Boening. My neighbor across the street is a professor there. They love showcasing success stories of people over coming hearing disabilities. That university is dedicated to the hearing impaired. They and other universities even pay to bring in trick shot artists. Doctor Cue Tom Rossman travels the college circuit doing trick shots on campus at like $1000 a pop. He did them for years while I was in school.
Sorry for the long post. Just food for thought.
KD
I mention this topic as My daughter is in girls scouts and my mother a troop leader. My daughters troop leader came over while I was playing one pocket and once I explained the object of the game and she realized the degree of difficult and witnessed a power one pocket run out from down 5 to -1 win. Her eyes got big and she loved what she was witnessing. People in my opinion are MORE cerebral in my opinion and capable of advance thinking and concepts. 9 ball seems to dumb everything down unfortunately!
Back on topic. I believe TAR can find a home at Lindenwood University or even my old alma-mater UMBC University of Maryland Baltimore County! Many Universities have space and ballrooms that they would allow use of their facility. Free exposure and advertising. The facility is never used anyway! It is a win win situation for them and you could even sweeten the pot by having who ever plays spend a little time with the host universities billiard team giving an hour or so of their time in instruction.
The Girl Scouts of America have a beautiful cabin and acres of land that was donated to them over the years in my area alone. They would be interested in a TAR partnership. Bring in Jeanette Lee and Dr. Dave to work with the girls and when it rains the girls are stuck in the cabins and what better way to get rid of cabin fever then a pool table for the girls. They got money and facilities. The Boy Scouts of America as well could be a great partner.
Gallaudet University would love to do a whole piece on Shane Van Boening. My neighbor across the street is a professor there. They love showcasing success stories of people over coming hearing disabilities. That university is dedicated to the hearing impaired. They and other universities even pay to bring in trick shot artists. Doctor Cue Tom Rossman travels the college circuit doing trick shots on campus at like $1000 a pop. He did them for years while I was in school.
Sorry for the long post. Just food for thought.
KD
I've seen the same thing. I bought a TAR match and my buddies just gradually lost interest.
And I've been to other people's houses with the specific goal of watching TAR,
and after a few minutes they say "let's go shoot."
The hell of it is, after a while I do want to shoot, or at least do something else.
And I'm the guy who always buys them. Even with great players, it's often
clear who's going to win so there's not as much excitement.
Like Shane vs. Efren, you could see how it was going to go after day 1,
and especially after day 2. I only watched day 3 because it would be my last chance.
You're absolutely on to something. Being part of a group, and seeing the crowd
(even if it's just strangers on the screen) really adds something.
I really felt like the TAR match vs. Donny Mills (at some pool room in Florida)
was more engaging than later matches where it's just a quiet studio, gray walls, not a peep from the crowd.
I don't even know what the right side of the TAR studio looks like, they never showed the crowd.
I had no idea if there were like 6 dudes in there or 50.
You need to show the personalities of the players, and play it up so people have a hero (or villain) to root for.
Have them talk a little trash (I wouldn't really care if it's all marketing and not heartfelt).
Talk up the rivalries. Give everyone background and some personal tidbits.
Maybe even get footage outside the studio of these guys at home or in their home poolrooms.
Even though AZ will go on and on about the race, the rules, the specific games,
and what skills the players have (or lack)... I think what we actually CARE about are the people.
Holy Crap!!!
Im a 2%er!!
I must admit - he pretty much nailed it in one sentence. Kind of like what Mark said when commentating the last Tar match - You want to know how to make a small fortune starting a new pro pool tour - start with a large fortune.
Kuddos for trying Justin. Enjoyed your product while it lasted.
Im a 2%er!!
I must admit - he pretty much nailed it in one sentence. Kind of like what Mark said when commentating the last Tar match - You want to know how to make a small fortune starting a new pro pool tour - start with a large fortune.
Kuddos for trying Justin. Enjoyed your product while it lasted.
We have to keep in mind that of these people that we speak of that lose interest after a few minutes, they probably don't know the players they are watching. There are those of us who watch professional competition for the love of watching the game, but I submit that most sports fans are fans of their favorite player or team far more so than the sport itself. To clarify, how many Montreal Canadiens fans will tune in to watch Toronto vs. Ottawa simply because they want to watch some hockey? Probably a much smaller percentage than you would see tuning into a Canadiens game. To take this point further, during the lockout TSN was showing old NHL footage to fill the void, but I didn't come across any AHL games.
When viewers don't know the participants then interest wanes amongst all except the avid fans.
Another considerable issue in pool is the lack of structure. Rankings and points seem to mean very little outside of an invitation for the Mosconi Cup. Depending on who you ask, almost every tournament is a "major", so there aren't too many I get particularly excited about, with the exception of the Derby City and the US Open. There are three world championships (in theory) and one unofficial world championships, which means the dilution of "majors" or "Slams", depending on what sport analogy you are using, has negative effect on my excitement level.
To draw comparisons with snooker, you have a meaningful ranking system. If you have favorite players lower on the list, you are checking to see if they will keep their place on the tour. Then for players in the top 32, will your favorite player make it into the top 16? Will they get invites to the Masters?
On top of that, they keep track of centuries run (Neil has 86 for the season, and might make 100 centuries before his run at the world championship), total ranking events won, total world championships, triple crowns etc. etc.
All of the above result in developing story line for the season that compels a viewer to make time to tune in.
This is just my opinion, and certainly not a fix for pool. But I think it behooves us to have a tour infrastructure with qualifying systems. You can still have amateurs play in pro events, but take a page out of snooker and force them to play a preliminary round or two to qualify for the main event with the pros (PTC's are a prime example).
I'd develop a tournament that is the quintessential World POOL Championship, not just the championship of individual games. I wouldn't want to see any one game be the game that decides the world championship, but perhaps you can either use a Derby type event to decide an official world all around champion. Alternatively, The top finisher of the World 10 ball, 8 ball and an Officially recognized World 14.1 Championship (doesn't have to be straight pool) gets crowned the World Pool Champion.
As for TAR, I loved it. I didn't buy as many PPV as I wanted because I'm always busy on the weekends unfortunately. But if Justin puts his catalogue on the VOD website, I'll probably end up buying just about everything over a period of time.
When viewers don't know the participants then interest wanes amongst all except the avid fans.
Another considerable issue in pool is the lack of structure. Rankings and points seem to mean very little outside of an invitation for the Mosconi Cup. Depending on who you ask, almost every tournament is a "major", so there aren't too many I get particularly excited about, with the exception of the Derby City and the US Open. There are three world championships (in theory) and one unofficial world championships, which means the dilution of "majors" or "Slams", depending on what sport analogy you are using, has negative effect on my excitement level.
To draw comparisons with snooker, you have a meaningful ranking system. If you have favorite players lower on the list, you are checking to see if they will keep their place on the tour. Then for players in the top 32, will your favorite player make it into the top 16? Will they get invites to the Masters?
On top of that, they keep track of centuries run (Neil has 86 for the season, and might make 100 centuries before his run at the world championship), total ranking events won, total world championships, triple crowns etc. etc.
All of the above result in developing story line for the season that compels a viewer to make time to tune in.
This is just my opinion, and certainly not a fix for pool. But I think it behooves us to have a tour infrastructure with qualifying systems. You can still have amateurs play in pro events, but take a page out of snooker and force them to play a preliminary round or two to qualify for the main event with the pros (PTC's are a prime example).
I'd develop a tournament that is the quintessential World POOL Championship, not just the championship of individual games. I wouldn't want to see any one game be the game that decides the world championship, but perhaps you can either use a Derby type event to decide an official world all around champion. Alternatively, The top finisher of the World 10 ball, 8 ball and an Officially recognized World 14.1 Championship (doesn't have to be straight pool) gets crowned the World Pool Champion.
As for TAR, I loved it. I didn't buy as many PPV as I wanted because I'm always busy on the weekends unfortunately. But if Justin puts his catalogue on the VOD website, I'll probably end up buying just about everything over a period of time.
Team Bar Table 8 Ball
I think it would be cool to see a hand picked team from Colorado on a bar table, play a hand picked team from Nevada do a TAR video, lets get it on in the Studio, lets market the CD's to the APA and Valley and league players, we know there is a few of em. Team match play 8 ball bar table, there might lie a untapped market. Make each CD part of each league team player packet or?????????.
I think it would be cool to see a hand picked team from Colorado on a bar table, play a hand picked team from Nevada do a TAR video, lets get it on in the Studio, lets market the CD's to the APA and Valley and league players, we know there is a few of em. Team match play 8 ball bar table, there might lie a untapped market. Make each CD part of each league team player packet or?????????.
